Steel Braided Brake Line

[Beemer]

I don't see much information about steel braided brake line. I understand they aren't expensive and can help to rid the brakes of the mushy feel so if anyone has experience with them please post a review of what difference you feel they made to your stopping power/brake feel along with the brand and $$$. Thanks for your time!

[weazsel]

I've read nothing but good reviews about Spiegler: Spiegler Yamaha FZ-07 Premium Brake Line Kit
 
It seems like the price is $175 for a full set front and rear. $200 for custom colors.
 
I'll be getting myself a set of braided lines after I do my fork springs/fork oil and after I install my EBC pads and break them in.
 
I want to feel how a good set of upgraded pads feels after being properly broken in. THEN I'm going to go with braided lines. 
 
These are the pads I purchased: EBC Double-H Sintered Brakes
 
I should be getting the pads in tonight.
 
Edit: Here's a small discussion about a possible bleeding first before stainless: Stainless steel brake lines

[sorkyah]

I don't see much information about steel braided brake line. I understand they aren't expensive and can help to rid the brakes of the mushy feel so if anyone has experience with them please post a review of what difference you feel they made to your stopping power/brake feel along with the brand and $$$. Thanks for your time!

spiegler makes some of the best on the market and are fully customizable color wise
prices are pretty much level across the board at around 170-175
 
Paul... @bellissimoto.. just got me a set with dual front lines
 
I'll give a review once they arrive and are installed

[Redstang4]

@weazsel please give a review of the brake pads. Thank you for the info on the brake lines.
 
Think you have just helped push more money out of my bank account, which is already quite low!!
 
I look forward to your feedback on both the brake pads and braided lines- you too @sorkyah!

[weazsel]

@weazsel please give a review of the brake pads. Thank you for the info on the brake lines. 
Think you have just helped push more money out of my bank account, which is already quite low!!
 
I look forward to your feedback on both the brake pads and braided lines

For sure man I would be happy to. 
It will be a week or two since EBC's break in instructions require 300 miles of normal/light riding. Then 10 hard stops in a row slowing from 60mph to 20mph to bed in the pads. 
 
Might bleed the front brakes too. Pick up one of those bleeder tools to make my life easier.

[bellissimoto]

I've read nothing but good reviews about Spiegler: Spiegler Yamaha FZ-07 Premium Brake Line Kit 
It seems like the price is $175 for a full set front and rear. $200 for custom colors.
 
I'll be getting myself a set of braided lines after I do my fork springs/fork oil and after I install my EBC pads and break them in.
 
I want to feel how a good set of upgraded pads feels after being properly broken in. THEN I'm going to go with braided lines. 
 
These are the pads I purchased: EBC Double-H Sintered Brakes
 
I should be getting the pads in tonight.
 
Edit: Here's a small discussion about a possible bleeding first before stainless: Stainless steel brake lines

The Spiegler Kit is very nice. The Premium kit you linked to is a 2 line front and of course single rear.  What's nice about Spiegler is that since they are made to order, they will honor certain requests besides just the color combo you want.  For example, if you want a single front line, over the fender like OEM, they can do that too.  Want to add or take away some length because you have custom handle bars in a non-stock location?  They can do that too.  I did a couple of custom sets already for some forum members...turn around time is just 2 days from when I place the order with them.   
I can do the custom colors for $170 for the Premium, 2 line front, single line rear kit. 
 
 
As far as brake pads, the EBC HH are a very good, and reasonably priced.  They offer high performance and are well known as the EBC flagship sintered streetsport brake pad.  If you want to take it one step further, the EPFA is the next step up, and it's a great dual purpose pad for street/track use.  I'm running them on my bike, and have 18 track days on them and 7400 street miles.
 
Not sure if people know this or not, but the FZ-07 actually has the front calipers from an older R1 (can't remember the year), so the brakes aren't really weak on the FZ-07...it's just that the engineers chose a pad to work best with the bikes' characteristics.  For example, if you choose a pad with crazy initial bite and leave the front forks stock, people will complain that the forks dive too much under braking.  I think Yamaha did a great job with the brakes on this bike, but it's nice to know when you want to upgrade the system can handle it.  Having said that, I think the EBC HH and EPFA are a great match for the bike, stock forks or not.  The initial bite isn't drastic like on some other pads, but they give you so much more confidence, and combined with some SS lines, much better feel.
 

 
- Paul
 
www.bellissimoto.com

[bmwpowere36m3]

I haven't done SS brake lines on a motorcycle, but I've never noticed any difference when doing it on my cars... for example, on the M3 the OE lines are fiber reinforced. Car was about 10 years old when replaced them and I did many track days with it. Other ones I've seen have internal SS braiding as well.
 
 
Any minor improvement, I've attributed, is just replacing "old" lines... i.e., if I had replaced them with new OE they'd have felt just as good and a good bleeding (needed post line swap).
 
Maybe much older vehicles had inferior rubber lines.

[ddog]

I don't see much information about steel braided brake line. I understand they aren't expensive and can help to rid the brakes of the mushy feel so if anyone has experience with them please post a review of what difference you feel they made to your stopping power/brake feel along with the brand and $$$. Thanks for your time!

 
I got my spiegler steel braided lines from sportbiketrackgear for $175 including custom coloring. As far as the results I have definitely noticed that the braking response is more even and consistent throughout the lever. This is compared to before where the first half of my brake was nearly useless and then suddenly had stopping power. I did not change the pads out to see what the lines changed by themselves and it was a very noticeable positive change. I recommend them.
 
These are especially nice for sport riding and getting in that hard progressive braking before a turn.

[weazsel]

I've read nothing but good reviews about Spiegler: Spiegler Yamaha FZ-07 Premium Brake Line Kit 
It seems like the price is $175 for a full set front and rear. $200 for custom colors.
 
I'll be getting myself a set of braided lines after I do my fork springs/fork oil and after I install my EBC pads and break them in.
 
I want to feel how a good set of upgraded pads feels after being properly broken in. THEN I'm going to go with braided lines. 
 
These are the pads I purchased: EBC Double-H Sintered Brakes
 
I should be getting the pads in tonight.
 
Edit: Here's a small discussion about a possible bleeding first before stainless: Stainless steel brake lines

The Spiegler Kit is very nice. The Premium kit you linked to is a 2 line front and of course single rear.  What's nice about Spiegler is that since they are made to order, they will honor certain requests besides just the color combo you want.  For example, if you want a single front line, over the fender like OEM, they can do that too.  Want to add or take away some length because you have custom handle bars in a non-stock location?  They can do that too.  I did a couple of custom sets already for some forum members...turn around time is just 2 days from when I place the order with them.   
I can do the custom colors for $170 for the Premium, 2 line front, single line rear kit. 
 
 
As far as brake pads, the EBC HH are a very good, and reasonably priced.  They offer high performance and are well known as the EBC flagship sintered streetsport brake pad.  If you want to take it one step further, the EPFA is the next step up, and it's a great dual purpose pad for street/track use.  I'm running them on my bike, and have 18 track days on them and 7400 street miles.
 
Not sure if people know this or not, but the FZ-07 actually has the front calipers from an older R1 (can't remember the year), so the brakes aren't really weak on the FZ-07...it's just that the engineers chose a pad to work best with the bikes' characteristics.  For example, if you choose a pad with crazy initial bite and leave the front forks stock, people will complain that the forks dive too much under braking.  I think Yamaha did a great job with the brakes on this bike, but it's nice to know when you want to upgrade the system can handle it.  Having said that, I think the EBC HH and EPFA are a great match for the bike, stock forks or not.  The initial bite isn't drastic like on some other pads, but they give you so much more confidence, and combined with some SS lines, much better feel.
 

 
- Paul
 
www.bellissimoto.com

That's a great price!  
Damn it Paul, I thought I had good street pads, I wanted to do them tonight. Now I have to decide if I want the EPFA pads... I don't plan on tracking my baby at all. I'm looking into a dedicated track bike in the near future. The HH pads should be perfect for the street me thinks.
 
In your experience do you follow the 300 miles break in THEN bed them in or do you cut the time/mileage a little bit? 300 miles unfortunately takes me a week give or take.

[bellissimoto]

That's a great price!  
Damn it Paul, I thought I had good street pads, I wanted to do them tonight. Now I have to decide if I want the EPFA pads... I don't plan on tracking my baby at all. I'm looking into a dedicated track bike in the near future. The HH pads should be perfect for the street me thinks.
 
In your experience do you follow the 300 miles break in THEN bed them in or do you cut the time/mileage a little bit? 300 miles unfortunately takes me a week give or take.

 
 
@weazsel,
 
You DO have good street pads!!! They are a good step up over the OEM, so if you're not going to track it you'll be fine. Having said that, I still think the occasional track day would be fine if you're not in the fastest group. People are taking bone stock FZ-07's to the track and not complaining, so I think you'll be just fine.
 
The EPFA's are actually based of the HH. Here's what they offer over the HH's:
 
The compound is based on the EBC Brakes™ top selling Double-H™ sintered material with extra friction stabilizing additives for improved brake effect and heat cycling. Many pads feature double segment pad technology which reduces flexing of the backplate and gives better venting to the pad.
 
As far as bedding them in, I honestly don't remember me riding 300 miles before really bedding them in. I just put them in, and pretty sure I found a nice long empty road and did about twenty stops from 80mph down to 20mph, letting the brake lever go progressively when I got to 20mph.
 
Recently, I got a second set of wheels to use for Race tires, and they were complete take offs, with rotors and everything. Not sure what pads were used on these rotors, but all I did is hit the rotors with a scotch brite pad and some brake clean, installed them, and hit the track without any other bedding in.
 
Felt completely normal, just like my primary wheels/rotors. No issue.
 

 
- Paul
 
www.bellissimoto.com

[Beemer]

"Not sure if people know this or not, but the FZ-07 actually has the front calipers from an older R1 (can't remember the year), so the brakes aren't really weak on the FZ-07." < I agree with that. I've only had to get on my front brake hard a few times and everything worked fine, I just want more stiffness and feel/feedback. Maybe my shorty levers make a difference to brake feel but I'm not going back to stock levers. When my pads wear out I'll definitely check into the ones mentioned so thanks for the feed back guys.
 

[bmwpowere36m3]

I wouldn't wait till the pads wear to make the change... EBC HHs aren't expensive. I just picked up a set to try out. Maybe $50 for a set on eBay from Rider's Discount.

[weazsel]

@weazsel ,
 
You DO have good street pads!!! They are a good step up over the OEM, so if you're not going to track it you'll be fine. Having said that, I still think the occasional track day would be fine if you're not in the fastest group. People are taking bone stock FZ-07's to the track and not complaining, so I think you'll be just fine.
 
The EPFA's are actually based of the HH. Here's what they offer over the HH's:
 
The compound is based on the EBC Brakes™ top selling Double-H™ sintered material with extra friction stabilizing additives for improved brake effect and heat cycling. Many pads feature double segment pad technology which reduces flexing of the backplate and gives better venting to the pad.
 
As far as bedding them in, I honestly don't remember me riding 300 miles before really bedding them in. I just put them in, and pretty sure I found a nice long empty road and did about twenty stops from 80mph down to 20mph, letting the brake lever go progressively when I got to 20mph.
 
Recently, I got a second set of wheels to use for Race tires, and they were complete take offs, with rotors and everything. Not sure what pads were used on these rotors, but all I did is hit the rotors with a scotch brite pad and some brake clean, installed them, and hit the track without any other bedding in.
 
Felt completely normal, just like my primary wheels/rotors. No issue.
 

 
- Paul
 
www.bellissimoto.com

 
Well thanks a lot Paul!
 
Thanks to you I just spent some more money. I do plan on tracking my bike so I went ahead and ordered the EPFA pads. Along with some Suburban Machinery M1 Bars and some ebay rear sets. I'm going to hit the track when I can get all of the above installed.
 
 
After that I'm going to pick up a set of Spiegler's brake lines from you.
 
 

[sorkyah]

@weazsel , 
You DO have good street pads!!! They are a good step up over the OEM, so if you're not going to track it you'll be fine. Having said that, I still think the occasional track day would be fine if you're not in the fastest group. People are taking bone stock FZ-07's to the track and not complaining, so I think you'll be just fine.
 
The EPFA's are actually based of the HH. Here's what they offer over the HH's:
 
The compound is based on the EBC Brakes™ top selling Double-H™ sintered material with extra friction stabilizing additives for improved brake effect and heat cycling. Many pads feature double segment pad technology which reduces flexing of the backplate and gives better venting to the pad.
 
As far as bedding them in, I honestly don't remember me riding 300 miles before really bedding them in. I just put them in, and pretty sure I found a nice long empty road and did about twenty stops from 80mph down to 20mph, letting the brake lever go progressively when I got to 20mph.
 
Recently, I got a second set of wheels to use for Race tires, and they were complete take offs, with rotors and everything. Not sure what pads were used on these rotors, but all I did is hit the rotors with a scotch brite pad and some brake clean, installed them, and hit the track without any other bedding in.
 
Felt completely normal, just like my primary wheels/rotors. No issue.
 

 
- Paul
 
www.bellissimoto.com

Well thanks a lot Paul!  
Thanks to you I just spent some more money. I do plan on tracking my bike so I went ahead and ordered the EPFA pads. Along with some Suburban Machinery M1 Bars and some ebay rear sets. I'm going to hit the track when I can get all of the above installed.
 
 
After that I'm going to pick up a set of Spiegler's brake lines from you.
 

Do it... just from pushing the bike around the garage to work on it.... i can feel the difference in the brake.
cant wait to get it on the road and give the whole thing a good shakedown

[bellissimoto]

Sweet! The EPFA pads are great, and have been serving me well during the last year on all my outings
 
You know we can get them right? EBC is right across the street from me, so if in the future you need anything, just let me know and I can most likely match or beat any prices out there
 
You will love the Suburban Machinery bars. That's what I originally had on my bike. Only reason I changed to the Woodcraft's is because I wanted to go a little lower
 
- Paul
 
www.bellissimoto.com
 
 

[howlinhoss]

Sweet! The EPFA pads are great, and have been serving me well during the last year on all my outings  
You know we can get them right? EBC is right across the street from me, so if in the future you need anything, just let me know and I can most likely match or beat any prices out there
 
You will love the Suburban Machinery bars. That's what I originally had on my bike. Only reason I changed to the Woodcraft's is because I wanted to go a little lower
 
- Paul
 
www.bellissimoto.com
 

Paul can we get some photos of your bike?! We need to see all the mods!

[weazsel]

That is the master plan sorkyah!
 
Shit my bad Paul, I didn't realize you were an EBC dealer!
 
When I replace them I know where to go.
 
 

[bellissimoto]

Paul can we get some photos of your bike?! We need to see all the mods!

 
 
I"m pretty sure you've seen it @howlinhoss ...here's a link:
 
link
 
 
(I need to update the mod list though, LoL)
 
 

 
 
And no worries @weazsel !
 
 
 
- Paul
 
www.bellissimoto.com
 

[x3rolink]

not sure if this is helpful, but this dude explains the differences pretty well imo

 

[Guest Ralph]

The org lines are ok till you reach a certain pressure then start to give,
once that happens you loose feel braided don't do this so you retain feel
even under very heavy braking which is just what you want, the 07 lines start
to give quite early and you can definitely feel it and though I have not fitted
braided lines to mine I have had them on other bikes and this leads me to think
they will be well worth fitting to the 07, EBC pads make a even more noticable
difference Yamaha seem to have fitted a quite low friction pad likely to stop
new riders ending up on the floor EBC pads will make a big difference but beware
the initial bite as you touch the brakes it come as a shock till you get used to it,
but after a short time you wounder how you did without them, I would go to the pads
first then the lines if you want that little bit more, there's certainly nothing wrong
with the calipers or master cylinder fitted.
 

[thomascrown]

The calipers are advics 4 piston monoblocks used on the gen 1 r1, fjr1300, roadstar warrior. Coincidentally (likely not), these fast, or heavy, or fast and heavy bikes all use the same Yamaha factory brake pads. If you want ridiculous stopping power with an oem progressive feel, you'll want to try those pads out. Or if you want slightly less bite, you can try gen 2 r6 pads, which are coincidentally the same pads used on the fz09. You can also try the advics equipped Super Tenere's oem pads, which are also used in the 2015 r1. I have no idea how the 15 r1 brakes feel however.
 
Given the amount of r&d Yamaha does on brake feel, and how many brake pad choices you have from the oem catalog, I would be hard pressed to use some aftermarket pad where testing was likely minimal. Oems likely take feel, noise, longevity (both pad and disc) into greater account.
 
 

[thomascrown]

I would not touch the brakes before fixing the front fork, however.
 

[gregjet]

The problem with the video re: steel reinforced brakelines.
He is talking about CAR brake lines. Car brakes are different from motorcycle brakes and what he said for autos is pretty well correct. Consider the following:
Car master cylinders displace a much larger volume of fluid to actuate the brakes.
They are Vacuum assisted which reduces brake feel by a considerable amount.
Car lines are mostly SOLID STEEL TUBES with a small amount rubber at the flex sections.
The lines are on a car, so can be big and heavy and thick so easy to reinforce by sheer volume of material and nylon reinforcing.
Car brakes are actuated by your foot usually with a rigid shoe sole between the brake pedal and the foot so any chance of actual "feel" is marginal.
 
By comparison: Motorcycle brakes mastercyls displace very small amounts of fluid to actuate so any "ballooning" is much greater in effect.
Motorcycle brake lines are smaller and thinner and have to be more flexible. You can actually feel the brake line expand if you put hand around the line and someone actuates the brake on poorer quality lines or even better quality ones when they have aged a bit.
Motorcycle lines used to have steel tube sections ( some still do) but it is less common nowdays as it is more expensive.
Motorcycles don't have vacuum assist so any changes to brake feel are more noticeable.
You actuate your front brake by hand with your fingers. They are MUCH more sensitive to feedback from the brake system so you will notice the difference much more.
Because the total vehicle feel from the braking is much amplified on a motorcycle ( body and hand loads, diving front end, lifting rear etc), you also notice any smaller differences in total braking feel relative to a car.
I have noticed large and useful changes on all motorcycles onto which I have put steel braided lines ( and that is quite a few). Having said that, if you "only" use your bike to commute and ride easily , steel lines are probably not worth the money.
My two cents worth.
 

[sorkyah]

 
 

The problem with the video re: steel reinforced brakelines. He is talking about CAR brake lines. Car brakes are different from motorcycle brakes and what he said for autos is pretty well correct. Consider the following:
Car master cylinders displace a much larger volume of fluid to actuate the brakes.
They are Vacuum assisted which reduces brake feel by a considerable amount.
Car lines are mostly SOLID STEEL TUBES with a small amount rubber at the flex sections.
The lines are on a car, so can be big and heavy and thick so easy to reinforce by sheer volume of material and nylon reinforcing.
Car brakes are actuated by your foot usually with a rigid shoe sole between the brake pedal and the foot so any chance of actual "feel" is marginal.
 
By comparison: Motorcycle brakes mastercyls displace very small amounts of fluid to actuate so any "ballooning" is much greater in effect.
Motorcycle brake lines are smaller and thinner and have to be more flexible. You can actually feel the brake line expand if you put hand around the line and someone actuates the brake on poorer quality lines or even better quality ones when they have aged a bit.
Motorcycle lines used to have steel tube sections ( some still do) but it is less common nowdays as it is more expensive.
Motorcycles don't have vacuum assist so any changes to brake feel are more noticeable.
You actuate your front brake by hand with your fingers. They are MUCH more sensitive to feedback from the brake system so you will notice the difference much more.
Because the total vehicle feel from the braking is much amplified on a motorcycle ( body and hand loads, diving front end, lifting rear etc), you also notice any smaller differences in total braking feel relative to a car.
I have noticed large and useful changes on all motorcycles onto which I have put steel braided lines ( and that is quite a few). Having said that, if you "only" use your bike to commute and ride easily , steel lines are probably not worth the money.
My two cents worth.

 
this...
you kind of beat me to it greg

[howworkclutch]

 Having said that, if you "only" use your bike to commute and ride easily , steel lines are probably not worth the money. My two cents worth.

proper assessment. unless you had a premium bike prior to fz07.
 
my old bike had excellent braking and its kinda annoying to grab the right-lever on this bike.
 
i'm hoping new lines and pads resolves the lethargic feel.