FORK upgrade - TRAXXION AR-25 K41-1 or MATRIS FY125SE

[mt07_PH 0]

hi guys. these 2 are almost the same price.

which is better?

thank you in advance.

 

http://traxxion.com/product/ar-25-axxion-rod-damper-kit/

VS

https://www.matrisdampers.com/en/prodotto/products/fse/

[r1limited 1,684]

Buy American

[mt07_PH 0]

can i ask why?

[mjh937 1,848]

Hopefully @pattonme will chime in with comments.  He knows a lot about suspension, especially on this bike. 

[Beemer 5,394]

15 hours ago, r1limited said:

Buy American

lol! Next you're going to say buy Harley.

 

I'm interested as well being it's been three years since I bought my bike and I could definitely use some replacements, preferably something fully adjustable.

[pattonme 1,065]

the Traxxion option is hard to judge based on the limited pics. I can't see a rebound hole but there's gotta be one. In any event it means your rebound tuning is (as has been for many years) dependent on oil viscosity choice and effectively non-adjustable. The comp side I'm guessing uses one of their standard pistons but here too no adjustment is available without dumping out the fork contents and re-shimming.

 

The Matris doesn't have much of a US support network but in EU/Italy I'm sure it's reasonable. The Matris option doesn't address rebound at all (huge, gaping hole in damper rod) and you'll still need to drill out/add holes into the OE rod for their valve to be effective.

 

If you can find $400 I suggest you find $200 more and get the Matris F15K which is no-mod drop-in fully adjustable cartridge kit. If you don't have any money then find some R3 damper rods and play with oil choice (~40cSt@40C)

 

Whatever you do, replace the OE lower slider bushing - it's STILL wrong as recently confirmed on the 2018 XSR700.

Edited April 9, 2018 by pattonme

[twf 154]

Traxxion is better product. 

[DewMan 1,899]

1 hour ago, twf said:

Traxxion is better product. 

I'm not objecting to your opinion, but could give your reasoning behind your opinion please? ✌️

[twf 154]

It is simpler, easy to install, replaces damper rods and works better. 

 

 

[mt07_PH 0]

thank you guys for taking time to reply. i dont plan on taking this bike to the track, just spirited twisties riding. so not willing to spend much. i just want to improve the front as i have reached the limit. i already replaced the fork oil to 20w but still not sufficient. i also replaced the rear shock and got the YSS from thailand.

 

both these products are around the same price range.

 

pattonme - thank you for the tip on replacing the lower slider bushing. 

 

twf - are you using the traxxion AR-25 AXXION ROD DAMPER KIT, K41-1 ? have you also tried this Matris FSE (FY125SE)? what do you have now for the front suspension and what have you tried before?

 

[twf 154]

4 hours ago, mt07_PH said:

 

twf - are you using the traxxion AR-25 AXXION ROD DAMPER KIT, K41-1 ? have you also tried this Matris FSE (FY125SE)? what do you have now for the front suspension and what have you tried before?

 

I used all kind stuff :). I am shop that sells and installs suspension. On our race bikes we use my cartridges or different forks all together. If rules don't permit (like MA new twins class) than we use AK20.

I am in USA, Traxxion and Ohlins are most common and make most sense to use. No reason to experiment with other brands. 

[pattonme 1,065]

I second Zoran; if those are your 2 options then go Traxxion. It's not even close.

[Kyuzo 61]

Besides preload, are these adjustable? Or drop in and forget; cant find anything about adjustability on Traxxion's site...

Edited May 26, 2018 by Kyuzo

[gregjet 973]

Is there any update on the Traxxion 25 rod/valve performance. It is what I originally envisaged as a proper solution IF it is done properly and the forks become a "big piston" style.

There is no reason that proper valving could be stuck on top of properly designed rods. Even possibly rebound and compression split between each side.

[GoodThymes 0]

Any update on this kit's quality and performance? I live close to Traxxion and am weighing their options  

[klx678 324]

Cross posted in another thread:

 

I am hoping some information can be had for a "fork job"  on my XSR.

Is the FZ fork circa 2013-2015 similar to that of the 2018 XSR700, making the fork work here a viable option?  I like the look of the Traxxion  kit with the springs and all, have been looking at the Race Tech stuff as well.   

I like the idea of a drop in valve set up so I'm not looking at a cartridge that can fail, and I'm not racing or flogging the bike on back roads.   I'd say I'm a relatively brisk rider, not a cruising kind of rider coming in at around 200 lb mostly nekkid.  Courtesy of a member here, I have an Ohlins shock for the rear and figure this winter, why not do the forks.  I'd like to slide in right about $300 if possible.

The cheapest way out would be to do the Dave Moss thing with the oil change, spacer work and maybe springs.  Next would be to get the Gold Seal and use the stock springs.  I'm open to suggestion from the wisdom of this group, as the XSR group isn't overly techinical and more into gaiters and fork covers, taking off fenders and putting on LED headlights, painting everything black... kind of steampunk...  no insult intended, just what it seems to be.  So...   for those old enough to remember Tooter Turtle having Mr. Wizard pull his butt out of bad situations...

help Mr. FZ!

Edited November 15, 2020 by klx678

[klx678 324]

Has anyone done enough to help me out and give an opinion on the two possible fork upgrades for the recreational street rider?  As I said in the previous post, I have the shock covered, so it is the fork for a fair price.  I have replaced seals in forks before and the only issue may be pulling the rods, although at the shop where I had worked and on the forks I had done, The bolts holding the fork damper rods were broken loose before pulling the springs out for disassembly.   

On the cheap is doing the Dave Moss changes.  That is taking for granted the XSR forks take the same changes.   I believe he is only having the fork oil changed and cutting down the spacer, maybe springs.   I have done Progressive springs in my 83 standard Wing and again in my 550 Zephyr and both benefitted tremendously if for no other reason than the fact that the stock springs sacked out so bad on both bikes that under load they both had used half of the available travel.   Is this an issue with the MT/FZ/XSR springs?  Right now with only around 3000 miles the forks have a relatively small amount of sag, not measured, but likely not far off what is preferred.

Then there is the question of differences in the Gold Valve and the Traxxion damper rod workings.  Seems, from what I'm reading, that the Traxxion set up is kind of designed to work as an open cartridge style damper set up doing both compression and rebound damping by using shim type valving as opposed to the fixed "valving" drilled holes provide.   Different from the pop off valve style of the Gold Valve.  Makes it sound like what I saw in my old Betor shocks on my Bultacos.  A shim stack on each side of the valve body in the bottom of the shock tube.  I think the comment was "an open cartridge", since the valving is submerged in fork oil, with no separate gas bladder, but rather just the open air above the oil, like the OEM set up is.  I know the oil could aerate, but I doubt I would be working it that hard.  Might be different on the dual sport, where it is entirely possible.

I do realize to alter the valving requires disassembly, but for my purposes it should be close enough for the riding I will be doing - no racing and no track days, ordered after talking with the company to use their experience for any settings.

Additional thought is should the springs be changed out or try with the OEM, since they can easily be swapped out.

Cartridge replacement with all the adjustment is not really something I'm considering due to the cost versus return for a rider like me.  If it was track oriented, it would make sense, where a couple clicks means something more.   I think it is overkill for my wants and needs.   

[mossrider 3,040]

Just pick the one that you like. I've had them both in numerous different bikes over the years and liked them. Albeit never in my FZ07. They do a nice job per dollar in their intended application. Depending on any deals you find the GV and springs ($300ish) might save you a few bucks over the damper rod/spring set ($400ish) but it's negligible. Both options are easy enough to install and set up but both are somewhat of a pain to adjust should it be necessary (which they generally never need).

[klx678 324]

First, I want to thank you for the reply.  I don't want to enter into this kind of modification without being fairly clear what I am doing and what I am getting.

Second, what did you do with the FZ?  A different fork or cartridges?    

I watched Traxxion's video and it seemed he was saying it actually has valving both ways rather than the fixed orifice on compression.  I liked that, plus the semi-custom set up based on weight and riding style generalization.

Question, these popped up in a search, Matris Fork Cartridge Kit for Yamaha FZ-07 and XSR700 on ebay for $325,.  click here 

At the risk of sounding quite ignorant, but not wanting to skip the question...   I'm a bit confused on the pictures, seems the damper is at the top, spring below?  Doesn't make sense to me.  What am I missing?

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by klx678

[mossrider 3,040]

My fz was race only so I just crammed money in the fork tubes. Doesn't relate well to street use. 

For everyday street use these solutions above are easy and cheap. Follow the manufacturer recamendations and you'll be so close you'll never have to open them up and mess with them but maybe once. Unless you want to then go ahead and have fun. 

That one you pictured has what looks like adjustable preload spacers on top of springs on what amounts to Ricors or Emulators, basically the same as you'd have if you went Gold Valves and springs (same price) That one reuses some form of the modified or stock damping rods at the bottom of the fork like GV's do.

 

Note:

There is only one cheap (free) way, D Moss's but it's a serious compromise.

There is only one perfect fix but it's a cartridge fork and costs thousands and is overkill and unnecessary for most folks.

Somewhere in the middle lies Motopia Kishu.

[cornerslider 702]

I did a write-up a while back in "tech-tips" a while back... Use the search tab for "D.I.Y.  Racetech front end". I'm very happy with my Racetech Gold valve emulators, and Racetech straight rate springs (sprung for my weight). I used my FZ-07 for both street, and trackday use.  It's now my dedicated track-only bike, and  I'm still not changing the front end for "track-only".... I'm very happy with the Racetech stuff. I think if I were to do it again, I'd probably go with the Traxxion-Dynamics version of the Racetech emulators. I only say that because I've heard good things about them, and also because it requires ZERO permanent modifications the the forks. You can take the kit out, and go back to stock at any time if/when you sell the bike. Racetech requires you to modify the dampener rods- no going back to stock, without buying OEM damper rods.... The only way I'm ever going to part ways with my FZ-07 is if I totally destroy it in a MASSIVE crash. Other than that, I can't imagine ever selling it? Hope that helps you out.... Racetech, or Traxxion-Dynamics are both great products, and would make your front-end VERY happy -

[klx678 324]

I appreciate your help and thoughts.   It is helping in my decision making.  I like to know when I jump in that the water is deep enough.

[shinyribs 1,566]

@klx678 , a few posts up you mentioned that you weren't interested in "a cartridge that can fail". I'm curious what about cartridges worries you that you are intent to find another work around. 

[klx678 324]

45 minutes ago, shinyribs said:

@klx678 , a few posts up you mentioned that you weren't interested in "a cartridge that can fail". I'm curious what about cartridges worries you that you are intent to find another work around. 

1. They cost around two to four times as much as the drop in valve/spring/damper rod set up.  The latter is fine for my street use.
2. In the very remote chance the damper should have an issue it will require tear down and replace.  Long shot, more likely to be struck by lightning, but still possible, so why risk the remote if the other option is pretty much proven and lower cost.
3. It seems from some of what I've read, that the riders who use cartridge set ups in their race or track day bikes have used the drop in valve stuff and find it works very well on the street even with the fixed damping settings.

Pretty much sums it up.  Purely financial and psychological.

[shinyribs 1,566]

I guess I misunderstood. I thought you were worried about cartridges mechanically failing. Anything mechanical can fail, but the parts inside cartridge forks/ valves shocks just don't wear out. 

Buy according to your budget and your wants. Don't worry about any reliability issues. They will all hold up to many, many miles.