patrolus Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 3 hours ago, DewMan said: I'm personally feeling a bit more practical about the FZ-07 suspension. For it's price point, I'm happy they cheaped out on the suspension since I was going to upgrade the suspension anyway. Even it they'd spend, and charged more for, slightly better suspension I'd most likely still be upgrading from OEM. So the $$ I didn't spend on the bike allows me to buy better suspension of my choice not Yamaha's. AMEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 8 hours ago, robbo10 said: But then there is the issue of price. I can put up with the poor suspension for the price Good performing suspension doesn't cost a damn penny more (ok maybe 5 bucks). Yamaha/KYB test riders and suspension engineers are simply incompetent. Hell, you don't even need to turn a wheel - software can get you in the ball park, you build 5 shocks and you test them to confirm. The R3 damper rods are WAY better than the FZ07's. using a properly clearanced piston band could do wonders. Putting the right config of shims on the piston could make the shock feel like "magic". Sure, Nitron/K-Tech/Ohlins will probably do better but unless there is a deliberate effort by the factory to sabotage suspension so Ohlins et. al. can book orders there is simply not one damn excuse for year after year doing such a crap job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 2 hours ago, godoy.rafa said: I wonder when the 2018 rear shock will be available for purchase... Or you could buy a properly valved K-Tech for less than $500. "read my lips" OE suspension that is not attached to a $15,000 bike is complete shite and it's fate should be limited to the crusher. (ok, there are some rare exceptions) I don't say that to sell product. Rather its just a waste of time. The Jap4 are incapable of/unwilling producing suspension that's not an embarrassment. I don't know why. Whatever happened to Kaizen and continuous improvement and all that... I'm pretty sure I've mentioned the head-scratcher that is the FZ09 suspension. For want of less than $50 worth of pistons and shims (at retail pricing) they sabotaged the the entire lineup (FZ, FJ, XSR). And they STILL refuse to do the obvious and dirt cheap fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickshift Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Bigturbomax said: Im a little annoyed they couldnt be bothered to ride it and review suspension updates. I really wanna know if the rear shock would be an inexpensive, viable upgrade for the older models. There are a few 2018 ride reviews on YouTube, all with favourable reviews of the shock compared to the outgoing model. Edit: aftermarket will still result in a much better handling bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo10 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 3 hours ago, pattonme said: ... The Jap4 are incapable of/unwilling producing suspension that's not an embarrassment. I doubt they are incapable, so is it really deliberate as pattonme suggested? Ohlins was owned by Yamaha between 1986 and 2007. Kenth Ohlins got 95% of the company back as the credit crunch bit. Just do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 MCN is like the New York Slimes aint worth the paper to wipe yer butt with “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 5 hours ago, robbo10 said: I doubt they are incapable, so is it really deliberate as pattonme suggested? Ohlins was owned by Yamaha between 1986 and 2007. Kenth Ohlins got 95% of the company back as the credit crunch bit. They're definitely not incapable. OEM's sell bikes to the masses, not individuals. I'd bet there's far more people completely content with their stock suspension ( on any bike) than there are folks who are pissed off that a certain brand didn't tailor build a motorcycle to their own personal dimensions, riding habits and environment to ensure their $7k motorcycle for them perfectly out of the gate. By comparison, look what $7k gets you in a four wheeler. Not nothing nearly as advanced as any sport bike. Hell, $7k buys you a pretty fancy riding mower, though...a Briggs engine in a stamped sheet metal frame with buggy wheels and a few belts and pulleys... Rest assured, if Yamaha actually improved the FZ 07 to be exactly what all the internet be engineers claim it "should have been to begin with", 75% of those same people are still gonna bitch about it. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Pattonme's dislike of GVE's not withstanding, this is a very good motorcycle with a couple of foibles. Almost all suspension related . I assume when I buy a bike that I will have to upgrade the suspension and this went for even my BMW F800r ( it also have THE worst seat I ever owned). In fact the only motorcycle I ever owned that didn't need a suspension upgrade was Sally's KTM 690 . For the price of a set of good Gold Valve emulators and a decent shock you have REALLY good suspension. OK maybe not pointy end race suspension but VERY good, if you can tune suspension at all. That would still make the 07 a cheap bike still and it would have suspension worth riding . Don't underestimate an Ohlins base level shock from a decent suspension place. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I went to the bike shop and demanded they build me a bike that has Ducati Suspension YZR-M1 Motogp Speced Engine RC213V Handling All for 7k OMG he said, we will get right on it and asked me to wait in the special peoples waiting room That bastard lied “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Faffi. Great vids Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 if yinz' are going to talk about me, at least tag me @pattonme eh? Sure, I'm a bit hard on the GVE because it doesn't address rebound especially when paired with a crap damper rod. And to get that rebound under control you end up chasing oils which is messy and unpredictable across temperature ranges. If you want to 'fix' the compression for a buck, just drill the holes bigger and turn your attention to the oil/spring combo. Cartridges let you cover 30F to 100F with a turn or so of adjustment with a simple screw driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 I second Dave Moss' et. al. about what should have been pretty good suspension for the past 20-25 years, was never delivered to the market. We're not talking off by 10ths of a second on laps. We're talking spring rates WAY off. Compression circuits with just ridiculous shim stacks and orifices too small etc. BASIC, just clueless screwups. Stuff test riders worth a damn should be able to convey and basic fluid-dynamics software should have no problem red flagging. Admittedly cars are less sensitive to poor choices in suspension but even so, I can't think of too many cars where the universal complaint was that every time you went over an expansion joint or manhole cover it felt like someone was kicking you in the arse. How come the car guys have got it "nailed" (for a rather expansive definition of the term) but Showa and KYB in particular can't? The concepts and the laws of physics are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phanomenal07 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Just finish watching Dave moss suspension tuning master class video on YouTube. Now I’m stressing out about my suspension. 😩 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 8 hours ago, pattonme said: Admittedly cars are less sensitive to poor choices in suspension but even so, I can't think of too many cars where the universal complaint was that every time you went over an expansion joint or manhole cover it felt like someone was kicking you in the arse. How come the car guys have got it "nailed" (for a rather expansive definition of the term) but Showa and KYB in particular can't? The concepts and the laws of physics are the same. Most Volvos from the late 90s to at least 2012 had crap suspension that was both harsh and too soft at the same time. S40/V50/V70/S80/XC90 would all bottom out and bounce for ages, while failing to absorb smaller bumps. It sort of felt like they hit the bump and then, once past the bump, the car would react, giving you a double hit. Compared to a BMW or Mercedes, the Volvos felt 50 years older. My current 2018 Skoda Octavia is surprisingly good, though, especially for the price. Not quite premium quality, but very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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