shinyribs Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I haven't been inside my forks other than to change the oil. I'm not sure how these are constructed. Is there a top-out spring that can be done away with/ modified in order to raise the stock forks any? Any compatible/ drop-in fork stanchions from other bikes that are longer? I'm slowly gathering parts and ideas for some work I want to do to my bike ( scrambler setup) , and I'd really like to raise the bike about an inch. I'm happy with the forks and have no reason to consider a fork swap. I've done plenty of those in the past and just am not interested in that for the FZ. Looking at this it seems doable...I think... but I'm not sure how much height is possible to gain. Or if other problems would arise ( bushing locations?). https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2016/fz07-fz07gs/front-fork Any ideas or suggestions would be great. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstyammerha Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Many years ago, I used cylindrical spacers that were the outside diameter of the damping rod and drilled down the center to take a longer stock bolt. The internal area of these cylinders was unthreaded.I experimented with 1" and 1.5" lengths with good success.You have to be careful not to extend the slider too far down the stanchion tube and reduce the over lap of these two components. There was a way to determine over lap but I forgot how to arrive at this number. As I recall 4" was the minimum overlap needed to keep the fork rigid and safe. I don't recall where I got the spacers and bolts but it may have been the local Home Depot or Lowes.Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 59 minutes ago, firstyammerha said: Many years ago, I used cylindrical spacers that were the outside diameter of the damping rod and drilled down the center to take a longer stock bolt. The internal area of these cylinders was unthreaded.I experimented with 1" and 1.5" lengths with good success.You have to be careful not to extend the slider too far down the stanchion tube and reduce the over lap of these two components. There was a way to determine over lap but I forgot how to arrive at this number. As I recall 4" was the minimum overlap needed to keep the fork rigid and safe. I don't recall where I got the spacers and bolts but it may have been the local Home Depot or Lowes.Hope this helps. So actually just spaced the damper rod up and away from the bottom of the fork slider. That's a beautifully simple approach. It's seems so obvious now that I'm embarrassed it never occurred to me lol. Thanks a lot for that idea. I'll have to take a look and see if that method will work on these forks, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phanomenal07 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Will you have to raise the rear too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, phanomenal07 said: Will you have to raise the rear too? I'm planning to raise the rear, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Shorter top out spring Spacer replacing oil lock piece Taller fork caps Longer inner tubes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstyammerha Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 the cylindrical pieces I used fit into the oil lock piece(bottoming out cone) and pushed the damping rod up and the sliders down so the stanchions could be moved up in the triple clamps. This was a tuning aid when I was mx'ing way back when. Thinking more on this, I may have had to get the hex head bolts from the local HD or Lowes machined to a circular shape head to fit in the bottom of the slider and a blade screwdriver slot milled into the bolt head so the damping rod could be unscrewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Can't fit it in oil lock piece on fz07. You would want to replace it because stock one is plastic. You would also need to make sure it does not interfere with tube. Could also make it so it has same function of stock one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 As long as you have enough overlap, lengthening the damper rod is a simple and cheap way to gain fork travel. Back in the 70s, there were those who sold longer damper rods for bikes like the RD350, helping those who couldn't be bothered to make spacers. These special rods also featured altered damping for more control around race tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 On 2/11/2018 at 4:48 PM, shinyribs said: I haven't been inside my forks other than to change the oil. I'm not sure how these are constructed. Is there a top-out spring that can be done away with/ modified in order to raise the stock forks any? Any compatible/ drop-in fork stanchions from other bikes that are longer? Any ideas or suggestions would be great. Thanks! R3 stanchions are longer by about 15mm 25+ I believe and the R3 damper rod is much better quality compared to the FZ07 part. But what you really want to do is install '95-7 ZX6F fork uppers in your lowers. Not only do you get full-tilt cartridges but they are longer by 610-574=36mm. '99-02 SV650 tubes are 589-574=15 longer. The mid-gen EX650 is about 20mm longer but different editions have some variance. I have a few sets of the ZX6F if you're interested in that route. Plus you can have me clean and revalve them to suit you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 19 minutes ago, pattonme said: R3 stanchions are longer by about 15mm I believe and the R3 damper rod is much better quality compared to the FZ07 part. But what you really want to do is install '95-7 ZX6F fork uppers in your lowers. Not only do you get full-tilt cartridges but they are longer by 610-574=36mm. '99-02 SV650 tubes are 589-574=15 longer. The mid-gen EX650 is about 20mm longer but different editions have some variance. I have a few sets of the ZX6F if you're interested in that route. Plus you can have me clean and revalve them to suit you. Great info! Thank you. The ZX6F tubes, can I reuse my springs? My sag numbers are spot on for me as things are. How price are we talking about on them, with and without revalving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 27 minutes ago, shinyribs said: The ZX6F tubes, can I reuse my springs? Should. There are 2 versions of the ZX6F - thick wall and normal. I think it was the '95 that had the heavy-duty walls and no, won't fit in those. Anyway I can dig thru the pile and find a suitable combo. You have Sonic springs? Well, let me just say you don't want to use them as-is. The valving needs an overhaul. But more importantly the oil and crud in these since they're old requires a full tear down and once you're doing that you might as well finish the job. But if you want to take all that on, I won't stand in your way. Pricing installed in your forks and shipped back to you is around $350. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 3 hours ago, pattonme said: Should. There are 2 versions of the ZX6F - thick wall and normal. I think it was the '95 that had the heavy-duty walls and no, won't fit in those. Anyway I can dig thru the pile and find a suitable combo. You have Sonic springs? Well, let me just say you don't want to use them as-is. The valving needs an overhaul. But more importantly the oil and crud in these since they're old requires a full tear down and once you're doing that you might as well finish the job. But if you want to take all that on, I won't stand in your way. Pricing installed in your forks and shipped back to you is around $350. I've got stock springs and I'm 240lbs geared up. Laden sag is 35mm. I'm running 12w fork oil and I've reduced the air gap, but I don't remember by how much. I'm completely satisfied with how the suspension is working ( CBR600RR shock out back - 32mm laden sag w/o luggage). Using the good ol' ziptie method I've been watching fork travel for the past 2k miles and I've not used all of my available travel yet! I was ready to spend money on the fork recently due to the bike feeling wallowy up front under hard cornering, but then I put proper air pressure in the tires ( 36 front - 42 rear) and the bike has handled like a dream since. I think I'd really only be interested in longer ZX6F tubes, to be honest. I should be able to reuse my damper rods and springs, if I'm thinking correctly, and only have to lengthen the spring spacer by the same amount as the additional tube length. Is that correct? Or am I way off base here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 On 2/12/2018 at 10:47 AM, twf said: Shorter top out spring Spacer replacing oil lock piece Taller fork caps Longer inner tubes Does anyone set taller fork caps? I've shopped around and found nothing, but I do that alot. Also, any pictures of this oil lock piece floating around? I'm not sure what this piece is. Is it items 11 & 30 on this diagram? https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2016/fz07-fz07gs/front-fork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 46 minutes ago, shinyribs said: Does anyone set taller fork caps? I've shopped around and found nothing, but I do that alot. Also, any pictures of this oil lock piece floating around? I'm not sure what this piece is. Is it items 11 & 30 on this diagram? https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2016/fz07-fz07gs/front-fork It is 11-30 in that diagram and looks same as this one http://www.triumphrat.net/air-cooled-twins-technical-talk/275090-fork-oil-lock-question.html Don't think anybody sells taller caps but they can be made. It all depends how much longer you want them, that will decide best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 hour ago, shinyribs said: I think I'd really only be interested in longer ZX6F tubes, to be honest. I should be able to reuse my damper rods and springs, if I'm thinking correctly, and only have to lengthen the spring spacer by the same amount as the additional tube length. Is that correct? Or am I way off base here? If I am not mistaken those are cartridge forks and tubes alone would not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 @twf Thanks for the link. That's kind of what I was expecting, but I haven't seen a damper rod fork with that piece inside. Most everything I've worked on has been cartridges. And yeah, I'm not sure about using my damper rods inside of those cartridge tubes. I'm not sure what that oil lock does exactly, but I imagine it won't interface with a random cartridge style stanchion. But who knows, maybe the bottoms are the same? I doubt I'm that lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 It is not oil lock piece that is problem. Tube from cartridge fork does not have valve in it needed for damper rod to work. Even other tubes from damper rod forks need to have correct valve for your damper rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 When I was racing motocross in the early 70's , it was the dawn of long travel suspension. We tried all sorts of things to get more travel. Not much available aftermarket then. Some tips. Beware the amount of fork extention. Even if you get a seemingly working setup , the bushing/ tolerences can be enough to make the froks stick solid once you are moving forward and there is a rearward load on the forks. Be careful of the amount of oil above the new lengthened forks. Easy to get caught with either lock or the level now being too low at full travel. Top out springs are not there to limit travel. They are there to stop head shaking of high speed extention and to give some drop travel. Drop travel in more important as the surface you are riding on gets rougher. GET THE RIGHT ALLEN BOLTS FOR THE BOTTOM. They are cheap and available in whatever size you need. Stainless is available and does not need to be hi ten as the only load it gets is extention which is damped anyway. If you are using the stock rods and are happy with the damping( ?????????) , it would be easy to turn down a new set to what even length you want. Even easier make the inner rod size as a rod, and turn a set of piston tops identical OR so they fit some gold valves into them without spacers. The piston tops can be pinned to the inner rods and that would allow you to experiment with extention lengths. When you are happy with the length, weld the rod tops on. BTW the intercoil distance of the springs stock will take the sort of extra compression length you want. It actually shortened my springs to increase the rate and measured them then. Interestingly, IF you can increase the travel an inch or so the stock spring rate will probably be a better match ( depending on your weight). Me: I would find a better longer travel set of forks to fit. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 I'm not looking for more travel, just want to raise the bike 25-30mm. If I wanted more travel I'd knab a whole other front end. Thanks for the tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 That's harder... but of course lengthening the rod will give you a taller set of forks ( providing you have enough overlap for smooth operation). Just went and had a really good look at the forks ( that was an effort it is over 40degC at the moment and hotter in the shed). I was wondering if the top triple clamp could be exchanged for one with more drop. Unfortunately the stock ones have a fair bit of drop already so machining a new set with 25-30mm more would produce a lot of waste, but it is possible. The interesting part is that the supported to unsupported length of fork leg is pretty good ( more between the clamps that below them to the top of the outers). That means a top triple clamp with 30mm extra drop wouldn't be too flexy. Another approach ( if expensive). Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 On 2/11/2018 at 5:32 PM, firstyammerha said: Many years ago, I used cylindrical spacers that were the outside diameter of the damping rod and drilled down the center to take a longer stock bolt. The internal area of these cylinders was unthreaded.I experimented with 1" and 1.5" lengths with good success.You have to be careful not to extend the slider too far down the stanchion tube and reduce the over lap of these two components. There was a way to determine over lap but I forgot how to arrive at this number. As I recall 4" was the minimum overlap needed to keep the fork rigid and safe. I don't recall where I got the spacers and bolts but it may have been the local Home Depot or Lowes.Hope this helps. For the life of me, I can't find a flaw with this approach. It simply pushes the slider down and leaves everything else to function as it was. Other than double checking bushing overlap, of course. Can someone explain why doing this would have any effect on the oil lock piece? I'm not thinking it would be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twf Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, shinyribs said: For the life of me, I can't find a flaw with this approach. It simply pushes the slider down and leaves everything else to function as it was. Other than double checking bushing overlap, of course. Can someone explain why doing this would have any effect on the oil lock piece? I'm not thinking it would be an issue. You can't use oil lock piece, your spacer should replace it. You can make spacer that way to act as oil lock piece. If I was you I would look in to longer tubes. This forks have issue with bushings as is and extending them 30mm will make it worse with less overlap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 Doesn't the oil lock live in the bottom of the stanchion? And a damper rod spacer would live in the bottom of the slider. I'm just not getting how they would interfere. Not arguing the point, honestly just confused lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Extra join weak spot really the only drawback I can see. Making a piece with the hole the size of the bolt ( longer) and outside diameter the size of the internal diameter of the fork lower would work the same as well. Just drop it to the bottom and then the whole antilock device and std rod could sit on top. That may be a bit more stable ( not sure on that) than a thinner inner rod. If you were in Aus. I would turn you down a set of both sorts to see how it worked.. Actually I had a look ate the pics of the stock setup and getting a longer bolt my be problematic. That is one unusual thread. Guessing 10 x 1mm. Here is a pic of the stock rod/valve/ bolt so we know what we are talking about Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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