gregjet Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 This could be interesting! Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 I've had 2 bikes with SS swingers and they had different ways to fasten the wheel to the spindle. My Aprilia has a great big nut in the middle that's gotta be properly tight and the wheel is driven by 3 pins that poke into mating holes in the wheel - Ducati and KTM use similar set-ups though both are way harder to unscrew that big nut - an impacter is almost an absolute unless you don't care about scratching the crap out of stuff. My '96 K11RS had what amounted to 4 lug nuts (or maybe it was 5 - too long ago) that just needed regular tools - no huge breaker bars or impact wrenches or 250 ft-lb torque wrenches. Maybe not as cool looking, but far easier to deal with and much less likely to either come loose on its own or have a shop screw it up for you. If that VFR swinger fits, I would choose it over any Duc set-up just on the basis of how that back wheel is fastened in place. Yep, could get interesting for sure at that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted March 14, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted March 14, 2018 Most likely I'll just start from scratch on the swingarm and just use the 2014+ VFR hub, brakes, and wheel. This way I can design it to be hopefully lighter, the correct length, and work with the stock shock and linkage. I have some tools available to me, including a manual milling machine and a TIG welder. I checked and you can get a 520 sprocket that fits the VFR hub in a 43 tooth (stock FZ07) and 45 tooth, so that's cool. And the VFR wheel is the same exact size as the FZ07 wheel. Edit: One of the main drives for this project is the ability to easily change to wets at the track. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstertt Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 It would be nice to know the dimension between the wheel center to the sprocket center to compare to the FZ-07 since this is a dimension you aren't going to be able to change much if at all. If both rims are the same width, then the distance between the outer edge of rim to sprocket would be easier to compare. If this dimension is to far off then your rear wheel will not end up in the same place as it is now. The front end of swing arm can be modified by cutting and welding so a little less of an issue if the width isn't correct. This may include frame attach point modifying also. I think if I were adding a SSSA, I'd also add a welded on outboard frame support instead of our bolted on foot peg mount plates...just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted March 14, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, markstertt said: It would be nice to know the dimension between the wheel center to the sprocket center to compare to the FZ-07 since this is a dimension you aren't going to be able to change much if at all. If both rims are the same width, then the distance between the outer edge of rim to sprocket would be easier to compare. If this dimension is to far off then your rear wheel will not end up in the same place as it is now. The front end of swing arm can be modified by cutting and welding so a little less of an issue if the width isn't correct. This may include frame attach point modifying also. I think if I were adding a SSSA, I'd also add a welded on outboard frame support instead of our bolted on foot peg mount plates...just me. Funny that you mention that. I stopped by the Honda dealer today to take a measurement off a new bike, but they were closed. I'm assuming they have one on the floor as it's a pretty big dealer. But you are right, a simple measurement from the rim lip to the chain center will let me know. I suppose the sprocket could be shimmed slightly in the one direction, but I have not looked closely. A thin wheel spacer would be an option as well, but I always hated those even for cars. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstertt Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, blackout said: Funny that you mention that. I stopped by the Honda dealer today to take a measurement off a new bike, but they were closed. I'm assuming they have one on the floor as it's a pretty big dealer. But you are right, a simple measurement from the rim lip to the chain center will let me know. I suppose the sprocket could be shimmed slightly in the one direction, but I have not looked closely. A thin wheel spacer would be an option as well, but I always hated those even for cars. Sprocket can be shimmed or mount pad machined down a bit, sprocket can be dished. Wheel can be machined or it's mount pad I would think but don't really know, not having seen one in person. I wouldn't imagine the difference between brands with equal size wheels would be great but you never know. More than a few places to add or remove to come up with the spacing you need. Sounds like you are determined. You can also use 2 sprockets to make one, weld center ring of one to outer of other to offset...overlap the two rings...sprockets can be custom made too..of course you may not even need to until you measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted March 15, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted March 15, 2018 Just something I came across in some searches.... http://www.multibody.net/teaching/dissertations/2013-giacomo-sarti/ Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted March 16, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted March 16, 2018 I measured a new VFR800F today and the sprocket to wheel center line distance is about 1/4" wider. This would put the sprocket 1/4" too far to the left with the wheel centered correctly with the frame. I think the best option would be a custom offset sprocket, if it's possible at a reasonable cost. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstertt Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 What size chain does VFR run? If 530 then convert to 520 and you can wipe out about 1/8" of your 1/4". The 520 c/s sprocket for the FZ-07 is offset, just flipping it around gains about .060" or so and when I flipped the dished rear sprocket I gained approx. the same = total of approx. .125". I wouldn't doubt you can find ways to get your 1/4" and like I mentioned before using 2 rear sprockets with pertinent pieces offset and welded back together will give you the offset. Or call a few sprocket companies and see what they will do for you, Sprocket Specialties? might be one. I'm sure there are others and a good steel sprocket will last if chain is lubed. I'm thinking of adding a Toturo chain oiler to my FZ, I'm getting lazy and would like to see how long my 520 conversion will last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Nice points, markstertt. MAYBE you could space the front sprocket out an 1/8 then and all would be sweet. Depends if there is enough thread on the sprocket retaining nut. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted March 17, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted March 17, 2018 I sent an e-mail to Sprocket Specialties, so we will see what they say. Thanks for all the input. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Chain run cure But really, shifting sprockets is no big deal. Like markstertt said, space them out, flip them around, shave carriers... Chain drives are very forgiving to manipulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstertt Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 5 hours ago, gregjet said: Nice points, markstertt. MAYBE you could space the front sprocket out an 1/8 then and all would be sweet. Depends if there is enough thread on the sprocket retaining nut. Not enough thread unless you grind or turn off outside of sprocket hub....I think there are enough other spots to manipulate...starting with custom rear sprocket, this would be my first choice and end of problem. 1/4" isn't much...I believe the 17's for my DRZ400S have the rear wheel 1/4" to the right of centerline and I couldn't detect any issues in handling...maybe someone else could but not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickshift Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I just measured up my vfr400 (nc30), the swingarm is very similar dimensions to vfr750/800. You would need to significantly chop the 07's frame between the swingarm pivot to get the honda swingarm to fit, affecting the lower engine mount. They look great, but the weight of the single sider alone is enough to put me off this type of conversion - the vfr400 swingarm, hub, axle and linkages is around 12 kg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted March 17, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted March 17, 2018 3 hours ago, stickshift said: I just measured up my vfr400 (nc30), the swingarm is very similar dimensions to vfr750/800. You would need to significantly chop the 07's frame between the swingarm pivot to get the honda swingarm to fit, affecting the lower engine mount. They look great, but the weight of the single sider alone is enough to put me off this type of conversion - the vfr400 swingarm, hub, axle and linkages is around 12 kg... I have no plan to use the VFR swingarm, just the axle and hub assembly. I would weld a custom aluminum swingarm using sheet 6061-T6 aluminum. Not sure what thickness to use yet. With that being said, the new swingarm could end up weighing more than stock. Hopefully not too much. Changing between wets and drys at the track is my main goal and a SSSA would make the rear effortless. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted March 20, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted March 20, 2018 Does anyone have thoughts on whether the stock swingarm might be too soft or too stiff laterally? Lateral stiffness would be the direction where the swingarm could absorbs bumps at higher lean angles. I plan to measure the stock swingarm stiffness and have an idea to make the lateral stiffness somewhat adjustable on the new swingarm. Torsional stiffness and horizontal stiffness would be fixed. I would try to copy or slightly exceed the stock stiffness in those directions. All thoughts welcome. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Unless you are heavy duty racing it I suspect you won't load the arm up enough or often enough consistently to notice any lateral or torsional flex at all. MotoGP bike measure their necessary flex in unit millimeters. They load the arms up substantially higher than you are going to get on a 07 . Both a VFR 400 and 750 are way heavier and faster than the 07 so any design deflections are going to be OK for the 07 I would think. If you go to their deflection specs you should have plenty of safety margin. If you build in Al and it is too sloppy you can always wrap it in Carbon fibre like Honda did on their GP bikes. You can even use it to tune the flex to where you want it. Resonant frequency will go up though despite the mass increase because of the increase in stiffness ( I think). Not that you will probably notice on a street bike or possibly even on the track on this engine/bike. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted March 20, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted March 20, 2018 22 minutes ago, gregjet said: Unless you are heavy duty racing it I suspect you won't load the arm up enough or often enough consistently to notice any lateral or torsional flex at all. MotoGP bike measure their necessary flex in unit millimeters. They load the arms up substantially higher than you are going to get on a 07 . Both a VFR 400 and 750 are way heavier and faster than the 07 so any design deflections are going to be OK for the 07 I would think. If you go to their deflection specs you should have plenty of safety margin. If you build in Al and it is too sloppy you can always wrap it in Carbon fibre like Honda did on their GP bikes. You can even use it to tune the flex to where you want it. Resonant frequency will go up though despite the mass increase because of the increase in stiffness ( I think). Not that you will probably notice on a street bike or possibly even on the track on this engine/bike. Good input as usual, thanks! I had wondered about wrapping in carbon fiber. Interesting to know Honda did. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT27 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 What about the late 80's early 90's honda hawk gt? https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=honda+hawk+gt+swing+arm&_sacat=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT27 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 This pic was from one of the ebay listings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted July 16, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted July 16, 2018 The Hawk GT 's are cool bikes. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted July 17, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted July 17, 2018 On 7/13/2018 at 12:36 PM, MT27 said: This pic was from one of the ebay listings. Looks to be only .75" too narrow. Nothing will be a direct bolt-on, but modding could be an option. But I'd rather start from scratch and only use the hub carrier. Welding anything to an unknown dirty aluminum alloy is always tricky. Aluminum does not take well to welding when the material is soaked with years of oil. Starting fresh with a known clean alloy is easier. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 14 hours ago, blackout said: Welding anything to an unknown dirty aluminum alloy is always tricky. Aluminum does not take well to welding when the material is soaked with years of oil. Starting fresh with a known clean alloy is easier. Man, ain't that the truth? I've been bitten on that more than once. Still haven't learned my lesson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted July 18, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted July 18, 2018 Aluminum is tricky... some aluminum processes are not ment for welding... also you need to plan out "weld run offs" since every aluminum weld is actually "cracked" ... I have been making aluminum "thermocoolers" for the last 10+ yrs 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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