Premium Member bornagainbiker Posted January 17, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted January 17, 2018 A great article on one of the craziest bikes from the 70s: https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/two-stroke-1972-kawasaki-mach-iv-h2-triple-widowmaker-classic-motorcycles-review-roots? Give Respect To Get Respect https://jeff-galbraith.pixels.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 National #11 Don Castros Erv Kenamotos built H2 at Terre Haute 1975. Late Great Gary Nixon sitting with glasses on “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I remember the allure of these Mach-series machines from when I was a kid. A neighbour had one in the darker shade of blue metallic, colour seen in the article on the bike with non-stock expansion chambers. Back then, the bikes even looked modern, what with the duck tail and all. But to me, they also grew old pretty quickly, with a look that is neither good nor classic, just weird. I'd much rather have a GT triple, which have uncannily smooth engines thanks to rubber mounts, and tons more low- and midrange power compared to the peaky Kawasakis. However, nobody can take away from Kawasaki the importance of their Mach-series - not only for the brand, but for motorcycling in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 No highway pegs, not enough chrome, too fast, says dang-dang instead of plap-plap, not a real bike. 😉 Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member bornagainbiker Posted January 18, 2018 Author Premium Member Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Beemer said: No highway pegs, not enough chrome, too fast, says dang-dang instead of plap-plap, not a real bike. 😉 And you wouldn't catch a "Real Biker" riding one of these on a bet. Give Respect To Get Respect https://jeff-galbraith.pixels.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0al67 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 a kid I know has a mint H2, inherited from his mom who had it since it was near new. Thing sounds like a goddamn bunch of angry chainsaw's coming down the road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 INSTRUCTIONS FOR RIDING A TRIPLE 2 STROKE KAWASAKI (particularly the 750). 1. Start motor ( note kick starter with 3 250cc 2stroke cyls) 2. Roll bike out to desired road without riding. 3. Pivoting the bike around the front wheel, aim bike in desired direction. DO NOT TURN THE STEERING! 4. Mount the bike carefully and put ALL your weight forward. ( Remind FZ/MT07 riders of anything?) 5. Carefully rev the motor and SLIP the clutch. 6. The bike is now going in a straight line ( sort of because the ridiculous torque is attempting to turn the wet spagetti that passes for a frame into a corkscrew). DO NOT ATTEMPT TO STEER WITH THE HANDLE BARS. 7. Once withing a few hundred meters of the desired corner start braking ( allow plenty of room as they are not known for their ability to stop and the aforementioned frame tends to squirm around under braking. 8. You should attempt to stop somewhere close enough to the middle of the desired corner to put the bike in neutral . 9. Through the smoke haze, lift the bike rear and point in the new desired direction. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO STEER USING THE BARS! ( alternate method for those silly enough to have left the evergrinding centrestand on. You may put down the centre stand and pivot on the centre stand to the desired direction). 10. Repeat step 4-6 until near enough your destination to attempt to stop. If the preceeding seems like a bit too onerous , sell bike and buy a waterbottle Suzi. Much better bike to ride and will last a lot longer. Oh yeah and the Suzi frame is made from fresh tagletalli rater than vermicelli so is a bit more stiff... Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Small added bit. The Kawaka 750 handles so bad a couple of guys at Manchester Uni used it as a test to determine if they could develop a physics model for designing why some bikes don't handle for a PhD. I apologize to them for forgetting their names but it was they that developed the pendulum axis/ CoG theory. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 But what a sound! Angry bees belching smoke for blocks. Had a friend with the 750 WaterBuffalo Suzuki. That was back when I was riding the bike in my avatar - the '76 R90/6. Was never sure what to make of that thing. It was big, heavy and more than sorta boring. But it was fairly reliable, iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, gregjet said: INSTRUCTIONS FOR RIDING A TRIPLE 2 STROKE KAWASAKI (particularly the 750 You have the experiance or should I rather say you lived, ya I get it. Like the TM400 dubbed widow maker “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 59 minutes ago, rick said: Angry bees belching smoke for blocks. And that was when it was off the pipe, on the pipe it sound like a pack of raped apes “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Looks like they ride more or less like any old classic to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Smaller version, but man does that sound bring back memories of the 1960s racing scene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZ07R WaNaB Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I suppose that if I were worth $400 million, I would have great toys, but..... I don't know if anyone can top Jay Leno in the cool toy department - Plus he actually rides/drives them! H2 then and now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Note reference by Leno to the legendary lack of handling and stopping. he says it was an exageration. It WASN"T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They handled and stopped evil. REALLY evil. If you ever get a chance check out the size ( or lack thereof) of the swingarm on the original H2. Yes they sound brilliant, especially ported and piped, but jamming into a corner and feeling the bike undergoing tectonic folding was....er....well it would do for a definition of horror. Now I should point out that the long ancestor of our beloved bike, the xs650, was worse. You could make it torsionally flex but pushing down on a footpeg when stationary, the the XS didn't go as fast, nor feel like a winding up spring when you twisted the throttle, waiting to uncontrolably spring out into a tangle of twisted metal. The reason they handled badly EVEN when you stiffened them was that they had a centre of gravity ABOVE the pendulum axis. Below is good, on is useable above is disaster. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 R1, I actually know a fix for the TM400. The problem was the spark curve and it was fixeable REALLY well. Despite the legend, it wasn't the porting, which was reasonably non radical. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, gregjet said: R1, I actually know a fix for the TM400. The problem was the spark curve and it was fixeable REALLY well. Despite the legend, it wasn't the porting, which was reasonably non radical. Yup added the frame would twerk before that skank did it “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 MOTORRAD tested the strength of the swingarm between the Z1 and some modern sportbike and in one plane, the old Kawasaki iron thing was actually stiffer (sideways). And the Z1 item is pretty similar to that of the H2. If you read German or can be bothered to read google translation, these articles write about riding some of them older superbikes, but Japanese and European. https://www.motorradonline.de/test/bmw-r-90-s-bsa-rocket-3-ducati-750-ss-kawasaki-900-z1.214422.html https://www.motorradonline.de/test/auf-achse-mit-bmw-r-100-rs-kawasaki-z-900-und-moto-guzzi-850-le-mans.702754.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 On 1/20/2018 at 12:54 AM, c0al67 said: a kid I know has a mint H2, inherited from his mom who had it since it was near new. Thing sounds like a goddamn bunch of angry chainsaw's coming down the road! Love it! Would she or he sell it? Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 " MOTORRAD tested the strength of the swingarm between the Z1 and some modern sportbike and in one plane, the old Kawasaki iron thing was actually stiffer (sideways). And the Z1 item is pretty similar to that of the H2. " That is part of the modern chassis philosophy. Because modern tyres allow such big lean angles, the suspension in the vertical plane is unable to have sufficient compliance at those angles. To keep the wheels on the ground they build transverse ( relative to the axles) compliance into the swingarm ( and at MotoGP levels in the frame). The ducati carbons suffered precisely because they were too stiff when leaned over. The old tubular swingarms biggest problem is torsional rigidity. ie the swingarms twist and the wheel effectively flops all over the place. If you have a look at racing classes from the day, where it was allowed by the racing rules, almost all swingarms had triangulation struts welded on to stop the longditudinal twisting when cornering. The aforementioned TM400 suffered in the dirt from a similar malady to the extent you could watch the wheel from being twisting all over the place. It was made even worse because to the in vogue modding idea of putting the lower shock mount up along the swingarm to get more travel. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmett Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I'll never forget the time when me and a bunch of my riding buds were shootin' the sh-- outside the local watering hole and one of em, who was used to his Honda CBX, tached the H2 up and dumped the clutch from a standstill. The Kawi did a couple of back flips on him but luckily left him standing there wondering WTF just happened? None of us had any idea that the H2 had so much torque. We didn't know whether to laugh or cry...the bike was FUBAR. What really sucked was that it didn't even belong to him and, though he was a good rider, he was totally unprepared for all that power. Luckily he was a good wrench and was able to put it right, but at a cost. That was one bike you had to totally respect, whether you liked it or not. No Jap bike handled well back then, at least not without new swing arm bushings, shocks, forks, etc., but that H2 was a real beast. Only the English bikes handled well, if you could keep the parts from vibrating off 'em. My, my how far we've come with the frame technology, suspensions, electronic safeguards (abs, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstertt Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Evil, scary killer bikes? Well, maybe but I don't remember it that way. I demo'd the first H1 to hit Jay Willy's dealership (Las Vegas) and was impressed with the power hit but the handling, finish etc. wasn't much different than the other Japanese bikes of the day, none of them were known for their handling. My hopped up '66 Triumph would out handle and out drag the H1 stop light to stop light and got much better fuel mileage. We weren't really road racer types so didn't really push the chassis to there limits. My high school buddy went from a Bridgestone 90 to the first year H1 and other than the faulty ignition modules (went thru a few) it was just a fun wheelie popping 2 stroke. In '75 I picked up a new Z1 and my buddy had a later H1, that if I remember right, it didn't have quite the same power hit of the first one. The Z1 wasn't bad for handling (normal street riding) and only really scared me once when it shook it's head whipping around a car at about 80 mph, it didn't handle as well as my Triumph but it didn't take long to compensate, when swapping between the 2, I just had to remember that the shifting was on opposite sides and that the big Kawi couldn't hold as tight a line. We had a guy with an H2 ride with us but don't remember anything about it other than it was smoky and purple. They all had pretty good power for the day but nothing compared to modern bikes, the little FZ-07 would have been a killer bike back then. My big Z with 1132cc kit, cams & pipe isn't as much fun as the FZ-07 but the Kawi is a nice platform for 2 up cruising with it's big flat seat. I think a most surprising bike back then was the Suzuki X6 Hustler, that little bike had a hit and made you just keep going thru the gears to hit it again and again. Like most of the Japanese bikes of the day, they all felt to be rather disposable...ride hard and throw away as the chrome rusted and the alloy corroded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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