r1limited Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 16 hours ago, gregjet said: You can't just blame the "bean counters" ( though you certainly not wrong to a large extent). With motorcycles the biggest problem is the buying public. Here are some real reasons why we don't have more advanced bikes ( and don't get me started on bicycles): Looks. Motorcycles limit on top speed in the vast majority of cases is their coefficient of form drag ( and riders included). If manufacturers made proper fully faired bikes to do this , customers complained they didn't like the looks ( no form follows function here mateys). The Hyabusha is ranted on how ugly it looks. That is proper fairing folks. If you don't want that , you don't want speed and fuel efficiency. Full stop. Worse, riders are crapping on about how they "prefer" naked bikes. Then go and make all these incremental improvements to get back the speed they lost in drag. The really funny one is sportsbikes. For years manufacturers tried all sorts of things to limit the engine performance to reduce the top speed ( driven by govt regulation mostly...and insurance companies). Every trick they tried, users would get around. Then they twigged that contempoary users are LOOKS focused. So now we have top speed limited by "parachute" design fairings that increase the drag so much, that it limits top speed and the owners won't touch it because it "looks" cool. The "manga" look of current Jap bikes is as good as towing a chute. Look at the sport bikes up to the early 2000's they are that shape to reduce drag. The big rear tailpiece that is so out of fashion , is out of fashion because MotoGP introduced rules to make the tail piece less aero to increase drag and limit the top speed. OOOOH I need a small tailpiece like GP bikes. The majority of form drag is from the REAR of a form, not the front. Looks again. How many people on this forum have commented on how they like the look of the short pipe. The length of a pipe for max performance is determined by the RPM/Cam angles. Racing bikes have short pipes because the pulses are closer together. Few road bikes are correctly powered by a short pipe ( original CBR250RR and FZR250 etc are exceptions with max rpm between 12000 and 20000). If you want more power for your 07 you want a LONGER pipe. But so many people comment they like the shorter look. Why spend 1000bucks for a pipe that isn't optimal? Because it LOOKS better. Suspension: The vast number of people that purchase motorcycles will spend thousands on engine performance upgrades and cosmetic upgrades, and nothing or minimal amounts on suspension. This is how it always been. This forum has been a revelation in just how many people are interested in getting it right for their bike, but it is NOT the usual ( BMW forums also tend to be suspension focussed). Manufacturers know that putting proper suspension on the vast majority of bikes WILL NOT INCREASE SALES. Even on this forum you hear how the stock suspension is fine. IT ISN'T .The suspension on the 07 is poor enough to affect the safety in both braking and cornering. Compounded by the "looks" addition of an overweight oversize rear tyre the forces the rear suspension to struggle even more. It's what customers want. Looks over real performance every time. Fuel capacity. The 07 has a tiny almost unusable tank size in many countries, because Europe and US buyers have fuel station every few feet ( and as many towns). They are the majority of buyers. Even with the nicely frugal engine the tank in too small for anything but looks and, as revealed in an interview in a mag with a Yamaha exec., it helped them advertise a lower wet weight for the bike to attract more buyers. As I said , don't just blame the bean counters for lack of advancement of motorcycles. ( don't mention bicycles...don't mention bicycles...) ^^ THIS I regret going with the Yosh, wish I would had doubled up and got the graves or as I would normally would do, go down to Dean Morrow Pipeline back in the day and say Dean Need a pipe made. But I diegrease, 110% agree with everything above Great input “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 14 hours ago, DewMan said: I am not, nor have I ever been a racer/knee dragger on my bikes. If I had to label my riding style I'd say I'm a "recreational" rider. For those of us heavier than the stock FZ-07 suspension was designed for, an upgrade to the suspension, in my mind anyway, was a requirement. Prior to the upgrade a curve, even ridden at legal speeds, always felt "dicey" if I had to boil it down to one word. After the upgrade my suspension isn't even something I think about. I've owned a couple of 80s era bikes and never felt the need to upgrade the stock suspension on them even after a combined 60K miles. For whatever reason I felt the need to upgrade the suspension on the FZ-07 even prior to completion of the break in miles. I'm not disputing anything you said. I'm just respectfully giving my own experience/opinion on the subject. ✌️ The problem in my opinion is people do not know have or carry the 80's knowledge on making these old schol suspenders work. The fronts can work with a little knowledge a drill press, new springs and a few nylon spacers and oil, the rear is a tad more complicated byt a simple spring rate change I would bet would make a hell of a lot of difference. It is what you wish to do with the bike, are you just wanting to match up the suspenders to body weight? or make a road racer out of it or a dual sport/adventure bike or are you just a blinger????? For me, I want the better of both worlds I have 10% of what I would like to do already done, the rest I am stil contemplating which is Natural Weight loss / Sprung and Unsprung, suspension (DiY), personal aesthetics. For me the bike is a fun bike, its a take out and just at a slower rate enjoy the ride. If I want the balls to shrink butt to pucker rush of adrenalin, then the R1 is put into action, where time travel is possible. “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member bornagainbiker Posted January 12, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 hour ago, r1limited said: Compounded by the "looks" addition of an overweight oversize rear tyre the forces the rear suspension to struggle even more. I've never understood the obsession with big honkin rear tires--to me they don't even look that great. Give Respect To Get Respect https://jeff-galbraith.pixels.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, bornagainbiker said: I've never understood the obsession with big honkin rear tires--to me they don't even look that great. I said that? Wow, spelling is right and articulated very well too, are you sure that was me “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 16 hours ago, faffi said: Longer headers give more low-rpm power, shorter pipes more high-rpm power. Alas for street riding you would want longer headers more often than not. I agree with that view 110 % for bikes with tires but with this particular bike (machine) you have to keep in mind you could be well above any street w/no posted speed limit so shorty pipes would rule. 😉 Just one of the reasons such a machine would be soooo bad-ass to have. I wish I had one, I could probably get down to Key West in under two hours I bet. Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member bornagainbiker Posted January 12, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, r1limited said: I said that? Wow, spelling is right and articulated very well too, are you sure that was me Maybe we've entered the Twilight Zone. But seriously, I think gregjet said it originally and you quoted him. Give Respect To Get Respect https://jeff-galbraith.pixels.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, bornagainbiker said: Maybe we've entered the Twilight Zone. But seriously, I think gregjet said it originally and you quoted him. Scared me there for a minute, I mean I have a reputation to uphold “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, r1limited said: I said that? Wow, spelling is right and articulated very well too, are you sure that was me If 'that' were in braille fingers all over the world would be spazzing and locking up from cornfusion, ha! 😉 Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyow5 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 16 hours ago, faffi said: Longer headers give more low-rpm power, shorter pipes more high-rpm power. UNLESS the pipes are sized wrong to begin with. This includes cases where, after an intake and tune, a rider wants to move the powerband away from factory. It is entirely possible (and I can quote examples) for a longer pipe to give more high rpm power because it is closer to the optimal length than the pipe it replaces. You are right as a general trend, but this is one of those instances where exceptions abound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1limited Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Are we discussing the blue printing of an engine for a specific discipline such as RR or DT or Hill Climb, Drags Etc? If we are then pick a poison, and build that motor for max HP and torque for given discipline!!! I mean what is really being discussed and what difference does it make? It is always interesting to watch the morph of threads go from initial OP Post to...... Well where ever it freaking ends. 😆 Lets real it back as the Technology 30 years ago plus has grown leaps and bounds. We ow see Auto trans in the Hond Africa aka DCT Auto transmission. This was introduced initially in MotoGP some few years back. ABS a known tech has been around a long time, Suspension Tech has come from just Oil and springs and drilling holes to electronic controls that auto/manual dial damping, compresson, rebound etc So really what are we talking about, I mean until that god derned blasted hover board shows up as promised by Doc just pisses me off “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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