Bigturbomax Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 What do you guys think? Not enough? Just got my adjusters in this afternoon (finally got time) and test rode after work for about 5 miles. So far im very, very happy with the difference in handling. You guys think 25mm front fork sag is too tight? Just wondering what yall run. Im 210 with gear and have rear spring at 7. Havent measured rear sag yet, but it "feels" right. Will check that in the AM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyribs Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Disclaimer: I make no claims to be a suspension guru. Rider sag is typically set at 1/3 of total available travel. I usually go by this rule of thumb, then adjust accordingly. If you find the fork bottoming often, adjust the sag higher. We are supposed to be using the full travel of our suspension, but without harsh bottoming. If you raise your sag to prevent bottoming, but it still bottoms, THEN you need stiffer springs. Remember to hold the front brake locked and have the bike in neutral when setting sag to get accurate readings. I'm about 230 geared up on stock springs. My bike has nowhere near 1/3 rider sag. Whoever said these forks have soft springs bumped their noggin I think I get about an inch of sag, which is barely 1/5 of total available travel. Whatever sag works well for the fork, I copy out back (generally), to have a balanced bike. But every bike has nuances. For example, my XR4 has about 11" travel up front, but 12" out back, and I ride in a way that puts more strain on the rear suspension than the front. Many people with XR4's use additional sag out back to "balance" out the difference ( so that both wheels would bottom at the same time), but I personally run less sag ( tighter spring) out back on mine due the rear suspension being more compressed than usual. meaning, I personally think riding style plays in to it, too. Hope that makes sense? Got on a bit of a ramble and forgot where I was going altogether... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 aim for balance. bike sag = 20-25mm, rider sag = 35-40 If you can hit bike sag but not rider get stiffer springs. Put a zip-tie on the leg and do your best stop. Is there 10mm of travel (NOT distance between zip and lower triple tree) left? If so you're good. If less, and sag is in range then add some oil. > I'm about 230 geared up on stock springs. My bike has nowhere near 1/3 rider sag Something very wrong with how you're measuring then? Stock is 0.85kg/mm 'ish. And ideally you should be running 0.92+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigturbomax Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 7 hours ago, shinyribs said: I'm about 230 geared up on stock springs. My bike has nowhere near 1/3 rider sag. Whoever said these forks have soft springs bumped their noggin I think I get about an inch of sag, which is barely 1/5. Well it looks like if youre measurement is right than youre running the exact same sag I am lol. Im just making sure my maths are correct. 1/3 is 33%. Total control suspension guideline recommend 28-35% as a rough guideline saying that everybike/rider/ideal surface has certain allowances slightly outside of this range. Im not well versed in this department myself either but am trying to learn. 25mm (1 inch) is approxamately 20% of our bikes 5 inch travel. So i thought it might be a bit tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigturbomax Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 5 hours ago, pattonme said: aim for balance. bike sag = 20-25mm, rider sag = 35-40 If you can hit bike sag but not rider get stiffer springs. Put a zip-tie on the leg and do your best stop. Is there 10mm of travel (NOT distance between zip and lower triple tree) left? If so you're good. If less, and sag is in range then add some oil. > I'm about 230 geared up on stock springs. My bike has nowhere near 1/3 rider sag Something very wrong with how you're measuring then? Stock is 0.85kg/mm 'ish. And ideally you should be running 0.92+ Online spring calculator recommends 0.90 for me so i trust your word on 0.92. Eventually ill probably put a stiffer spring in and possibly emulators. For the time being my thinking was if i can acheive target sag with the stock 0.87 spring than i would theoretically see an improvement of the forks general behavior. My rough maths tell me ideal sag with these forks ought to be closer to 30mm, again falling closer inline with what you said. So i suppose my question is, is this gospel? I mean if i have good corner traction even with dips in the road (which is the point of more sag) while maintaining everything else, do i need to allow more sag? Because at 25mm my ride/has improved quite noticeably. Can i leave it there if it meets the traction needs of my riding style and types of road i see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I have the stock springs and I am about 220 with my gear on. I fitted DDC valves and reduced preload until I got 41 mm of sag IIRC. I also upped the oil level to 130 mm below the top, forks fully collapsed and no springs. That made the fork bottom under heavy braking on smooth ground. I have no added about 15 mm of preload thanks to adjustable spring retainers, but have not measured anything. Or ridden the bike. Too much salt and crap on the roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigturbomax Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Well this all came up because i had 35-40mm sag stock and it rode like poop. Maybe 30mm is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 There are no absolutes - I would suggest you ride it and see how it feels. But 25 mm sag does mean the fork will top out at times over dips. Just out of curiousity, how do you measure sag? If you just lift the bike by hand, you have 15-20mm sag that is removed if the front wheel is in the air. And then you can pull the wheel down even a bit further, fighting the top-out spring. IIRC, there is 20 mm left unused at the top of the stanchions (between the dust cap and lower triple) with the fork totally compressed, so perhaps you should check the distance from the bottom of the lower triple clamp to the top of the fork dust seal, subtract 20mm, just to verify how much travel you have left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigturbomax Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Good suggestion. Ill check it. I may have more travel than i think. I may ne measuring wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 the top-out spring rate is VERY high, might as well treat it as a solid piece of metal. Going from 0.87 to 0.9+0.95 is probably not worth doing. I would buy just one 0.95 spring. Generally speaking you want 7mm (up to around 10) of built-in preload and that should get you static sag numbers. If you're putting 20mm of preload in, it's time to revisit springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted January 10, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted January 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Bigturbomax said: Online spring calculator recommends 0.90 for me so i trust your word on 0.92. Eventually ill probably put a stiffer spring in and possibly emulators. For the time being my thinking was if i can acheive target sag with the stock 0.87 spring than i would theoretically see an improvement of the forks general behavior. My rough maths tell me ideal sag with these forks ought to be closer to 30mm, again falling closer inline with what you said. So i suppose my question is, is this gospel? I mean if i have good corner traction even with dips in the road (which is the point of more sag) while maintaining everything else, do i need to allow more sag? Because at 25mm my ride/has improved quite noticeably. Can i leave it there if it meets the traction needs of my riding style and types of road i see? It did the exact same thing (.90 straight rate springs, and emulators), and I went with 15WT fork oil. I set the preload at 10mm *race tech recommended*, and set the sag, and ride height per Ohlins recommendations (I have an Ohlins rear). I set the static sag @ 25mm, and the ride height @ 35mm. I love this set-up! The emulators work exactly as advertised. It's a great route to go if you don't want to drop $800 on cartridge forks. I did the whole thing (springs, emulator, and oil) for about $275. I highly recommend this set-up, you won't regret it 😊- ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigturbomax Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Still havent fiddle with the rear yet. Re-checked the front with the help of a friend and found i really had 29mm rider sag. Pulled it back half a turn and checked again. Landed at 30mm. Gonna ride this tonight and tomorrow morning. 29mm felt pretty dang good. More stable, less pogo when hitting mid corner bumps. So i think 30 may be the sweet spot for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigturbomax Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 I wish bought these things and adjusted the bike 1600 miles ago....better late than never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 8 hours ago, cornerslider said: if you don't want to drop $800 on cartridge forks. My cartridges are less than $500 including spring and shipped back ready to ride. spring choice and preload are only influencing the range of motion your suspension is going thru. It does nothing with regards to damping in either direction. Unless you're topped out or bottoming - neither of which contribute positively to rubber to asphalt adhesion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member cornerslider Posted January 11, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted January 11, 2018 14 hours ago, pattonme said: My cartridges are less than $500 including spring and shipped back ready to ride. spring choice and preload are only influencing the range of motion your suspension is going thru. It does nothing with regards to damping in either direction. Unless you're topped out or bottoming - neither of which contribute positively to rubber to asphalt adhesion. That is a very reasonable price! I had no idea there were cartridges available (installed) for that kind of money? This sounds like a really good option for anyone wanting an upgrade their front end. I read some of your posts on the vendor page. It sounds like your product is all most riders would ever need. I got "educated" today 😊.... Thank you for that, and for being a supporting vender 👍 ""W.O.T. until you see god, then brake" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 There's also the Matris (about 550 if you buy my left over stock) or a little more than 600 once I run out - or ask Bellissimoto for his best deal. Andreani runs about 650 delivered and all upgraded. The Ohlins NIX-22 is the most expensive (about 700). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartofperformance Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 On 1/12/2018 at 6:09 AM, pattonme said: There's also the Matris (about 550 if you buy my left over stock) or a little more than 600 once I run out - or ask Bellissimoto for his best deal. Andreani runs about 650 delivered and all upgraded. The Ohlins NIX-22 is the most expensive (about 700). Officially in my home country, we only got a vendor who are officially supporting Ohlins, and have them in stock. What is your take/review on the NIX-22 compared to other solution? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 7 hours ago, heartofperformance said: What is your take/review on the NIX-22 compared to other solution? run a really light oil in the Comp leg. If that doesn't work you;ll want to change the valving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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