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faffi

MT07 power - and that of the competition

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faffi

I found this rather interesting.

For comparison, look at the numbers from a 40 year old litre bike

 

 

MT07 effekt samt konkurrenter.jpg

GS1000E effekt.jpg

Edited by faffi
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shinyribs

I remember watching a review of the Benelli and the riders couldn't stop commenting on how gutless it was. Harley could have something real nice with their Streetrod, if the fix the ergos and shed some weight. They're on the right track. I hope they keep progressing and don't let public opinion stall what could be a really big leap for their reputation. They could easily go to a parallel twin layout to shed weight, but I doubt they'll venture away from their V twins anytime soon. Suzuki proved a light, strong V twin is doable in a reliable, affordable package, though. 

 

Those oldschool big block bikes had good grunt down low, but modern engines just knock their socks off when it comes to throttle response. 

 

I used to have a heavily modified twin cam CB750F that was done up to 823cc that I thought was really something. Right at 100hp to the rear tire, but my 07 would blow it in the weeds from any speed, any gear, period. The old CB would pull easily to 150mph, though...

 

 As much as I adore the oldschool, modern bikes just kick ass. I love them both equally, just for different reasons! And the handling is lightyears apart. All the power in the world doesn't matter if you can't make it handle. 

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mjdavis1994

Recently I've been going on group rides with lots of people that rode R6s, R1s, some 600RR, a few GSXR, some pretty big bikes. They were all surprised that I could hang with them till they went 120+. We had some cbr 300s and 250s and boy am I glad my brother talked me out of getting those. 

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topazsparrow
36 minutes ago, mjdavis1994 said:

Recently I've been going on group rides with lots of people that rode R6s, R1s, some 600RR, a few GSXR, some pretty big bikes. They were all surprised that I could hang with them till they went 120+. We had some cbr 300s and 250s and boy am I glad my brother talked me out of getting those. 

Yup.

 

I know gearing is a big factor in this comparo, but My buddies GSXR1000 didn't feel any faster during normal and spirited riding. It wasn't until you're at obviously illegal speeds where the bike would begin to shine. Think I'll stick with the FZ thanks.

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faffi

The R1 and similar race reps make similar power below 7000 rpm to that of the old litre bikes from the late 70s, but from there on up, it's a totally different ballgame.

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Beemer

No matter what anyone says I still likes me an old blue smoke blowin' 2-stroke. I don't care what h.p. it produced compared to modern bikes, I just liked how they sounded. I didn't have to be going fast to enjoy them because the exhaust note was like music to the ears. Just going through the gears at a normal pace was enough. I truly liked them that much. Of course the feeling of being on a rocket didn't hurt once in awhile. 😉

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bornagainbiker
13 minutes ago, Beemer said:

No matter what anyone says I still likes me an old blue smoke blowin' 2-stroke. I don't care what h.p. it produced compared to modern bikes, I just liked how they sounded. I didn't have to be going fast to enjoy them because the exhaust note was like music to the ears. Just going through the gears at a normal pace was enough. I truly liked them that much. Of course the feeling of being on a rocket didn't hurt once in awhile. 😉

I second that motion. ;D

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faffi

What about a slightly massaged RG500?

disctest.jpg

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r1limited

I was riding once and this guy pulls up on a Hennessey Venom F5, I look over at the gal in the passanger side, raise my visor, wink and lick my eyebrow.  The dude in the drivers seat was all common fool, lets race so I pulled in the clutch adjusted my position to launch control redlined it until the limiter hit

 

Ya, thats right, thats what I am talkin about, no match for a moped that dude was scared

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norcal616

I think Yahamas CP3 motor is the best all around powerhouse mill in Yahamas line up.. it relatively easy going at low rpms as the CP2 motor at low rpms but once you start going into the "Goldilocks Zone" which is approx 4.5k to 11k rpms the CP3 motor just shines with displacement bust power thats reaching pretty good into liter bike power territory...

 

Im kinda biased with the CP2 motor, Im really sad to see Yahama neutered the motor with the stock FZ-07 airbox( the stock airbox was made to pass various regulations,etc...) ...it truly shines when used with a Hordpower Airbox or one of similar nature...

 

dyno graph of stock vs hordpower FZ-07

 

FZ-07.jpg

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shinyribs

I'm curious to see what Yamaha will do with the twin in the future. I don't think the engine is working hard now, so I think we'll probably see a few power increases over the years. I mean, we're not even burning good gas in these things.  I say over the years with confidence beside I don't think they'll be phasing out the triple or our twin anytime soon. They're just too good. 

Edited by shinyribs
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faffi

Here's the graph off a 1980 Kawasaki Z750 four as well

 

 

Z750 hp.jpg

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Cruizin
15 hours ago, shinyribs said:

I'm curious to see what Yamaha will do with the twin in the future. I don't think the engine is working hard now, so I think we'll probably see a few power increases over the years. I mean, we're not even burning good gas in these things.  I say over the years with confidence beside I don't think they'll be phasing out the triple or our twin anytime soon. They're just too good. 

Man, I remember good gas. Leaded. The really good fuel was kinda purple in color in the 70’s, those days are long gone now. 

I think there is power to be had in the mt-07 top end. Head/valves pistons. 

One of us needs to explore the above and report back.

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shinyribs

Less than 10 years ago we could buy "Cam2" here at the pump. It had that purple tinge and smelled sooo good. 

 

When I said "good gas" I actually meant high octane. Since these puppies purr on 87 octane with such a high CR, we know the combustion chamber is efficient. Adding some degrees to the cam lobes should add some upper rpm HP, and a bump in compression should recover any loss of bottom end power that might cause. I think it would be safe to assume that a longer duration cam (with maybe a bit more lift) and some added compression could easily get another 10-15HP out of the 07 without any loss of TQ. The only concession would be needing higher octane fuel, but I'd take another 15 HP at the expense of another 30-50 cents per fill up. 

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stev74

I love the engine of the FZ-07 (MT-07). I think its close to a masterpiece.
The throttle response is so direct...and makes it so effortless to accelerate quick.
But because of that throttle response and for a not really amazing clutch in my opinion the FZ-07 is not good for absolute beginners.

What I would like to see is a small 500-700cc, two cylinder, fuel-injected, 2-stroke(!), adventure or naked bike.
That must be awesome :)

 

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Beemer

I'd like to see this same, compact, parallel twin in 1000 cc stuffed into a Tracer but with shaft drive, better shocks, brakes, windscreen, etc, etc. and all the goodies of an FJ1300ES.

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shinyribs
On 12/26/2017 at 6:03 PM, norcal616 said:

I think Yahamas CP3 motor is the best all around powerhouse mill in Yahamas line up.. it relatively easy going at low rpms as the CP2 motor at low rpms but once you start going into the "Goldilocks Zone" which is approx 4.5k to 11k rpms the CP3 motor just shines with displacement bust power thats reaching pretty good into liter bike power territory...

 

Im kinda biased with the CP2 motor, Im really sad to see Yahama neutered the motor with the stock FZ-07 airbox( the stock airbox was made to pass various regulations,etc...) ...it truly shines when used with a Hordpower Airbox or one of similar nature...

 

dyno graph of stock vs hordpower FZ-07

 

FZ-07.jpg

This is a stock 07 vs a stock 07 with only the Hordpower airfilter? No ecu flash or exhaust involved on the Hordpower bike in this test?

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norcal616

bone stock FZ-07 vs stock motor w/Hordpower Airbox, PCV and Yoshi Exhaust...

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pattonme
On 12/28/2017 at 9:30 AM, Beemer said:

I'd like to see this same, compact, parallel twin in 1000 cc stuffed into a Tracer but with shaft drive, better shocks, brakes, windscreen, etc, etc. and all the goodies of an FJ1300ES.

Soooo, a TDM900 then? Well, without the extra 100lbs and done better?

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Beemer
20 hours ago, pattonme said:

Soooo, a TDM900 then? Well, without the extra 100lbs and done better?

Good observation! I've always liked the 850's and the 900 but to be more exact a Tracer 900 (I like the Tracer styling better) with a parallel twin instead of an inline three. I just like twins better. Like I said, w/shaft drive instead so no mucking around with a chain and 100 more cc's (so a Tracer-10 to be more exact) to deal with extra weight and help to keep the bike lively vs sluggish. If the FZ-07's hadn't been out at the time I'd bought it I very well might've bought a TDM 900. Even now they still look like a fine bike to me.

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gregjet

The 07 limitation on horse power ( NOTE horsepower not torque) is almost certainly the camming . The bike is cammed ofr midrange torque. So yes much more HP could be had. That isn't tha point of THIS bike...

BUT!!! if your want to track/race it, it SHOULD respond to more agressive camming, inlet and exhaust work, remapping associated therewith for HP ( perhaps not pistons but hey what the hell. If you are going for competition everything matters). Camming determines the max rpm ( again inter ailia) and HP is torque X rpm). But you usually lose some torque at lower revs.

If you ride on the road, torque is your friend. I suspect even a sportsbike man like R1x will say that the 07 is just easier to ride around the street and in most situations BETTER because of the torque/HP balance towards grunt. Even then on a tight track , a torquey motor may have advantages. I used to race a VTR250 against CBR250RR's ( real ones with 4cyl and 20000rpm redlines, not the dickie current ones) on a gokart track. They would eat me on the one straight ( by a huge margin), but out of the corners I could flog every one of the ( almost twice as much torque and 30kg less weight ).

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pattonme
1 hour ago, gregjet said:

Camming determines the max rpm

er, piston speed (function of piston weight, crank throw) determine max rpm. 

Just to *poke* *poke*

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shinyribs

Both statements are true, but for different reasons. 

 

Pistons speed will determine the overall max rpm before hard parts start flying apart. What the rotating assembly can physically withstand.

 

Camming determines top speed via where in the rpm band the horsepower/ torque Peters out. 

 

Speaking of, I really like dig how our bikes have offset cylinders to promote better rod angle. Gotta love a p-twin that easily buzzes at 10k :D

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faffi
8 hours ago, pattonme said:

er, piston speed (function of piston weight, crank throw) determine max rpm. 

Just to *poke* *poke*

To really poke, the weakest link determine max rpm. Could be valves, valve springs, crank, conrods, bearings, pistons giving up first. Not to mention rev limiters 😄

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