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digitalsteve

Power Commander vs ECU Flash

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digitalsteve

Regarding PCV versus an ECU flash:

Does the PCV address the engine braking issue like flashing the ECU does (turning off fuel cut to injectors on decel)?

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norcal616

the PCV has no option to turn the deceleration injection on/off... the engine braking feeling is softened up by adding more fuel

 

the ECU flash via mail in is set from vendor - "proprietary information" - you may have to send back for a lil tweak if you dont like the new "engine braking behavior" 

 

the ECU DIY kits will allow you to fine tune just about everything...PCV kits are just as good but allows more add ons to be used like POD300 display, QS, map switch

 

I notice no differ in engine braking between the 2 from having a 2WDW flash for exhaust or running the map Hordpower provided for the setup...next year I will hook up my AutoTuner to my new set up and see what its doing...

 

the PCV does not like the deceleration injection turned on when using " AutoTuner" ...I mean it really hates it! 

 

PCV maps from the PCV database are best used on 100% OEM ECU settings...

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digitalsteve

@norcal616 - ahh ok, so the PCV achieves something similar by just adding more fuel, so the notchy throttle is softened in a similar manner just via a different method.

I was tempted to run a PCV with their auto tune kit and potentially adding a R77 exhaust.

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norcal616

Hordpower has a PCV tune for the Yoshi exhaust when you get around to ordering it

 

The Autotune is really not needed unless???

 

Yes the "notchy throttle" behavior when letting off the gas is softened up... I adapted long ago by just ever slightly rolling the gas off till I felt the engine braking then I could get more aggressive with letting off the gas...

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digitalsteve
20 minutes ago, norcal616 said:

Hordpower has a PCV tune for the Yoshi exhaust when you get around to ordering it

 

The Autotune is really not needed unless???

 

Yes the "notchy throttle" behavior when letting off the gas is softened up... I adapted long ago by just ever slightly rolling the gas off till I felt the engine braking then I could get more aggressive with letting off the gas...

Oh, does he? I'll have to hit him up about that!

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norcal616
3 minutes ago, digitalsteve said:

Oh, does he? I'll have to hit him up about that!

hmmhmm... my gut tells me his Yoshi tune for stock airbox will be better than the Yoshi tune from PCV library 😈

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digitalsteve
26 minutes ago, norcal616 said:

hmmhmm... my gut tells me his Yoshi tune for stock airbox will be better than the Yoshi tune from PCV library 😈

I bet it is! Does @hordboy sell his maps separately? I'm in Australia, so life may be a bit more difficult if I have to buy the whole PCV set up...

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norcal616
3 minutes ago, digitalsteve said:

I bet it is! Does @hordboy sell his maps separately? I'm in Australia, so life may be a bit more difficult if I have to buy the whole PCV set up...

last I recall he charges nothing for PCV maps... Do you got the MT-07HO or the other MT-07? 

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digitalsteve
2 minutes ago, norcal616 said:

last I recall he charges nothing for PCV maps... Do you got the MT-07HO or the other MT-07? 

I went with the MT-07HO mate... no LAMS model for me. Full biscuit mode!

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stickshift

I run a PCV with akra ti and intake snorkel removed, using the map for this setup straight from the dyno commander website.

 

I didn't notice a big reduction in engine braking but must admit that I don't know whether it's been optimised for that. Softened is a good description.

 

I believe you'll see bigger reductions in engine braking by turning the deceleration injection on via ecu flash.

 

I'm very happy with the PCV, I picked up a used one from US ebay for half the price of new.

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cornerslider
14 hours ago, norcal616 said:

Hordpower has a PCV tune for the Yoshi exhaust when you get around to ordering it

 

The Autotune is really not needed unless???

 

Yes the "notchy throttle" behavior when letting off the gas is softened up... I adapted long ago by just ever slightly rolling the gas off till I felt the engine braking then I could get more aggressive with letting off the gas...

Just an FYI: If you go the PCV- Autotune route, you will need to add a second O2 "bung" into your exhaust. I tried just using the one O2 bung (and unplugged the OEM O2 sensor)..... It ran terrible at low RPM. The PCV only works @ 5,000+ rpm. Below 5,000 rpm, it NEEDS the OEM O2 sensor control the air/fuel ratio. If you unplug it, the bike goes into "safe mode", and dumps extra fuel into the motor. I just had just spent $950 on a Ti Akrapovic, and wasn't about to start punching holes in it for a second bung. I unplugged the Autotune, put the OEM O2 sensor back in, and went back the the generic PCV map.... The bike runs great!!! I've never ridden a bike that's been "flashed", but I like the engine braking (I have a Supermoto background), it feels "normal" to me-

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CarGuy7a
On 11/29/2017 at 11:06 AM, cornerslider said:

Just an FYI: If you go the PCV- Autotune route, you will need to add a second O2 "bung" into your exhaust. I tried just using the one O2 bung (and unplugged the OEM O2 sensor)..... It ran terrible at low RPM. The PCV only works @ 5,000+ rpm. Below 5,000 rpm, it NEEDS the OEM O2 sensor control the air/fuel ratio. If you unplug it, the bike goes into "safe mode", and dumps extra fuel into the motor. I just had just spent $950 on a Ti Akrapovic, and wasn't about to start punching holes in it for a second bung. I unplugged the Autotune, put the OEM O2 sensor back in, and went back the the generic PCV map.... The bike runs great!!! I've never ridden a bike that's been "flashed", but I like the engine braking (I have a Supermoto background), it feels "normal" to me-

I experienced the exact opposite. My bike actually ran better when unplugging the stock O2 and using auto tune with a stable idle and AFR right around 13.8 to 14 after fully warmed up. If you are experiencing rough running in the low RPM's do not input any AFR values in the 0% or 2% throttle range. I had some conflicts going on when I added AFR values in that 5% throttle range. 10% range and up and it worked out fine with the AFR table set to 13.2 and 13.5 in the cruising RPM ranges. Also another thing I found out is the headers on the Akra Ti system are in fact Stainless Steel not Titanium, the only thing titanium on this exhaust is the mid section of the muffler's outer housing the rest is stainless. Don't ask me how I found out as it was a huge fiasco. So adding a second bung would be simple for any good stainless tig welder if needed but I personally haven't found the need to.

 

On 11/29/2017 at 1:49 AM, stickshift said:

I run a PCV with akra ti and intake snorkel removed, using the map for this setup straight from the dyno commander website.

 

I didn't notice a big reduction in engine braking but must admit that I don't know whether it's been optimised for that. Softened is a good description.

 

I believe you'll see bigger reductions in engine braking by turning the deceleration injection on via ecu flash.

 

I'm very happy with the PCV, I picked up a used one from US ebay for half the price of new.

Go into your fuel map and under the 0% throttle range add a fuel trim value of 5 at 2000RPM up to rev limiter and click send map. It will add a small amount of fuel when you are completely off throttle and help the engine braking some to an extent. This also helps with decel popping. I think I have mine set to 9. I started at 5 then went up 2 decel popping decreased but not completely then I went up another 2 and it went away all together.

Edited by CarGuy7a

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stickshift

Thanks, I'll try it just to see the difference.

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cyow5

What's the rationale for using a piggyback when there exists access to the fuel and spark tables in the ECU? I get using a piggyback when the ECU is electronically locked down, but adding a second device seems to only complicate a simple problem. 

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cornerslider
On 12/3/2017 at 10:38 PM, CarGuy7a said:

I experienced the exact opposite. My bike actually ran better when unplugging the stock O2 and using auto tune with a stable idle and AFR right around 13.8 to 14 after fully warmed up. If you are experiencing rough running in the low RPM's do not input any AFR values in the 0% or 2% throttle range. I had some conflicts going on when I added AFR values in that 5% throttle range. 10% range and up and it worked out fine with the AFR table set to 13.2 and 13.5 in the cruising RPM ranges. Also another thing I found out is the headers on the Akra Ti system are in fact Stainless Steel not Titanium, the only thing titanium on this exhaust is the mid section of the muffler's outer housing the rest is stainless. Don't ask me how I found out as it was a huge fiasco. So adding a second bung would be simple for any good stainless tig welder if needed but I personally haven't found the need to.

 

Go into your fuel map and under the 0% throttle range add a fuel trim value of 5 at 2000RPM up to rev limiter and click send map. It will add a small amount of fuel when you are completely off throttle and help the engine braking some to an extent. This also helps with decel popping. I think I have mine set to 9. I started at 5 then went up 2 decel popping decreased but not completely then I went up another 2 and it went away all together.

Maybe I'm missing something? I didn't put anything into/modify the AFR values.... My experience was this: I'd start the bike up (cold), it started up great, if I did "nothing" (no throttle inputs- NOTHING), the bike would run rough, and then die after 30-45 seconds. After the bike was warm, I'd be at cruising speeds (4,000-4,500 rpm), and I would get this dying/surging thing happening.... I did some online research and learned the the PCV doesn't do anything on the FZ-07 below 5,000 rpm. If I remember correctly, I think it even states in the PCV autotune instructions to NOT change any AFR below 5,000 rpm? My understanding is that it needs the OEM O2 sensor (narrow-band) to control the AFR below 5,000 rpm...... After 5,000 rpm, the autotune O2 sensor (wide-band) kicks in and takes over the AFR. I'm not trying to start an online argument/debate. I seriously want to be able to run the autotune feature with the PCV. I just don't want to have to punch more holes into my exhaust to make it work properly. Any advise/insight is sincerely welcome......

 

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norcal616

is your ECU still on OEM settings? if not the PCV will try to tune(lean out) the deceleration injection which is turned on via ECU flash tune... 

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digitalsteve

I'm thinking a FTECU with their auto tune product might be the way to go.

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Beemer

I just wanted to say that I chose to install an EJK (cheap) which adds gas and it did away with a lot of the decel but not all. You really don't want to take all of it out because it can be beneficial in certain ways. Maybe you knew that already. 

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topazsparrow
On 12/11/2017 at 2:16 PM, digitalsteve said:

I'm thinking a FTECU with their auto tune product might be the way to go.

This is what I'm running and I love it.

 

I can pop the baffle in and out whenever I please without re-tunning. Seems like the bike really comes alive when it's cold out too - which I assume is the fueling adjusting for the density of the air and adding more fuel.

 

Easy install, no down-time waiting for a tune or updates, plus I can tweak it whenever and however I want (not that I need to).

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digitalsteve
3 hours ago, topazsparrow said:

This is what I'm running and I love it.

 

I can pop the baffle in and out whenever I please without re-tunning. Seems like the bike really comes alive when it's cold out too - which I assume is the fueling adjusting for the density of the air and adding more fuel.

 

Easy install, no down-time waiting for a tune or updates, plus I can tweak it whenever and however I want (not that I need to).

Does it actually tune the AFR as you ride?

Do you need to keep the stock o2 sensor as well?

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topazsparrow
15 hours ago, digitalsteve said:

Does it actually tune the AFR as you ride?

Do you need to keep the stock o2 sensor as well?

Yes, more or less live. I think it kind of "learns" so if you blip the throttle it doesn't see it's pig rich and then dial it back and leave it that way. There must be some kind of averaging mechanic involved or something.

 

You don't use the stock O2 sensor with the kit. It's replaced.

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digitalsteve
5 hours ago, topazsparrow said:

Yes, more or less live. I think it kind of "learns" so if you blip the throttle it doesn't see it's pig rich and then dial it back and leave it that way. There must be some kind of averaging mechanic involved or something.

 

You don't use the stock O2 sensor with the kit. It's replaced.

Same size as the stock o2 sensor?

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topazsparrow
6 minutes ago, digitalsteve said:

Same size as the stock o2 sensor?

I don't recall for certain. It may be bigger, it fit my Akra Ti system without modification, but for some reason I though it came with an adapter to fit the stock O2 sensor.

 

Might have to double check with akra on that one.

EDIT: That's a bingo:
 akrapovic_o2_sensor_plug_bolt.jpg

Edited by topazsparrow
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norcal616

stock FZ-07 O2 sesnor is 12mm... the wideband O2 for PCV or FTech? is 18mm...

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digitalsteve
44 minutes ago, topazsparrow said:

I don't recall for certain. It may be bigger, it fit my Akra Ti system without modification, but for some reason I though it came with an adapter to fit the stock O2 sensor.

 

Might have to double check with akra on that one.

Hmm. I'll have to check. I won't be running an Akra. Pain in the arse; I could've had my exhaust customised for it whilst it was being made.

40 minutes ago, norcal616 said:

stock FZ-07 O2 sesnor is 12mm... the wideband O2 for PCV or FTech? is 18mm...

Bugger... so an adapter is needed then?

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