Crank, no start

[mjdavis1994]

So got my bike back to Texas put all the new parts on and low and behold, no start. This (guessing it's a relay) keeps clicking and the bike turns over just won't start. It's right behind the battery, two green 30 amp fuses. Here's a pic. Got any ideas of which one this is? 

 

*edit* it's the starter relay, but since it's clocking once as I try to crank I'd imagine it's good. Running around chasing my tail here. 

[rick]

That's the starter relay. Internally, it connects those 2 heavy wires - one coming from the battery, the other going to the starter motor. It will always click when you hit the switch. You just won't hear it over the starter motor - especially if yer sitting on it. 

 

Yamaha starter solenoids have a pretty good reputation - I've got one in my 2002 Aprilia where it does a bit more work supplying current to a stater that's moving 50% bigger pistons!

 

Back from Texas? How long has the bike been w/o starting? 

 

How old is the gasoline? 

 

[rick]

Oh, does it continue to click as the starter is running or just once just before the starter starts to spin. Is the starer spinning at it's normal speed or slow with a a lower pitch? 

 

A weak battery - or connections between the battery to the starter thru that solenoid are not clean/tight - can cause it to click on/off repeatedly. 

[mjdavis1994]

2 hours ago, rick said:

Oh, does it continue to click as the starter is running or just once just before the starter starts to spin. Is the starer spinning at it's normal speed or slow with a a lower pitch? 

 

A weak battery - or connections between the battery to the starter thru that solenoid are not clean/tight - can cause it to click on/off repeatedly. 

It clicks once when you try to start it, once when it stops so the relays working right. I rode it from Texas to TENN and it has been there for roughly 6 months while I was deployed. I put the battery on a tender upon return (it was dead) when I got back. But I believe it was still weak it died after about 30 seconds of trying to start it. I brought the battery to get charged/tested and will pick it up tomorrow morning. Thanks for the reply though! Hopefully that's all it is. 

[Beemer]

From what you just said it sounds to me like the problem probably is the battery just not being fully charged because it worked/turned over fine before you left, right? Hopefully a good, full charge will do the trick and hopefully the battery holds a charge.

[rick]

Me too - these batteries just don't like sitting for that long. Maybe if the battery had been disconnected or the main fuse been pulled so there was 0 current draw. Had it been left on the Tender, it would likely be fine. My 2 bikes are are tenders 24/7 for 4-5 months over the winter in an unheated garage and are happy come spring. 

 

The starter draws a big bunch of current when the battery is healthy. When the voltage is low, the battery will actually draw even more. The dropped is then not enough to run the other stuff, like fuel injectors, pump and spark coils. 

 

Anyway, hopefully a new battery will get it rolling again

 

And thanks for working hard for us those 6 months . 

[mjdavis1994]

5 hours ago, rick said:

Me too - these batteries just don't like sitting for that long. Maybe if the battery had been disconnected or the main fuse been pulled so there was 0 current draw. Had it been left on the Tender, it would likely be fine. My 2 bikes are are tenders 24/7 for 4-5 months over the winter in an unheated garage and are happy come spring. 

 

The starter draws a big bunch of current when the battery is healthy. When the voltage is low, the battery will actually draw even more. The dropped is then not enough to run the other stuff, like fuel injectors, pump and spark coils. 

 

Anyway, hopefully a new battery will get it rolling again

 

And thanks for working hard for us those 6 months . 

So a little update, got the battery back this morning and still no start. Checked the tip over sensor and the ball was moving. I grabbed some carb cleaner and sprayed it in the intake, low and behold she started and shut off. Fuel pump is priming and she's pouring fuel when you take the line off. Maybe bad gas, draining the tank and putting fresh fuel shortly. Will update soon. Thanks for the help so far though! 

[mjdavis1994]

Update:: kept spraying carb cleaner till the ECU had time to process any potential codes. Got 5D__30 latch up error. Anyone know what this means?

[DewMan]

according to

 about half way down the page you'll see that @cruzian3 stated:

If the bike is upright then the Lean Angle Sensor should be outputting 0.4–1.4 and if the bike is leaned more than 65 degrees than it should be outputting 3.8–4.2.
 
Latch up means that the output from the LAS is not within either of these.  Therefore, something is wrong with the LAS.
 
[HASH]30 Latch up detected. No normal signal is received from the lean angle sensor.
• The vehicle has overturned.
• Defective lean angle sensor.
• Malfunction in ECU.
• Improperly installed lean angle sensor.

 

Hopefully this helps. Good luck to you!

[mjdavis1994]

51 minutes ago, DewMan said:

according to

 about half way down the page you'll see that @cruzian3 stated:

If the bike is upright then the Lean Angle Sensor should be outputting 0.4–1.4 and if the bike is leaned more than 65 degrees than it should be outputting 3.8–4.2.
 
Latch up means that the output from the LAS is not within either of these.  Therefore, something is wrong with the LAS.
 
[HASH]30 Latch up detected. No normal signal is received from the lean angle sensor.
• The vehicle has overturned.
• Defective lean angle sensor.
• Malfunction in ECU.
• Improperly installed lean angle sensor.

 

Hopefully this helps. Good luck to you!

It helped, LAS is working properly had unbolted it to check and had it dangling there. I'm loosing my mind trying to figure this out. It's obviously a fuel issue just can't figure out why. When I use carb cleaner to start the pump constantly primes as it's dying. Really hope my pump isn't bad. 

[norcal616]

check all safety connections like side stand, clutch lever... 

[rick]

If it fires up with external fuel, that means it's getting spark, but no fuel from the injectors. You can hear the pump priming, so it is probably OK. 

 

There's no fuel filter in this bike, but there is a small screen that can get clogged. But if you removed the hose at the throttle body end and gas pumps out, that should not be an issue. 

 

So you got an LAS code, but the voltage output reads OK? Someone else kicked up one of these codes a long while back - maybe do a search. 

 

With the lay-up, you might also have stuck injectors. 

 

Gasoline that's gone bad after sitting will smell really bad - even stale.  

 

 

[mjdavis1994]

26 minutes ago, norcal616 said:

check all safety connections like side stand, clutch lever... 

I've checked all these multiple times thinking I've missed something. Thanks though. 

[mjdavis1994]

11 minutes ago, rick said:

If it fires up with external fuel, that means it's getting spark, but no fuel from the injectors. You can hear the pump priming, so it is probably OK. 

 

There's no fuel filter in this bike, but there is a small screen that can get clogged. But if you removed the hose at the throttle body end and gas pumps out, that should not be an issue. 

 

So you got an LAS code, but the voltage output reads OK? Someone else kicked up one of these codes a long while back - maybe do a search. 

 

With the lay-up, you might also have stuck injectors. 

 

Gasoline that's gone bad after sitting will smell really bad - even stale.  

 

 

I'm leaning towards the injectors being sticky. I syphined out the old gas completely and filled her back up. Took everything off including the tank to check all connections, when you start without an external fuel source the fuel pump primes once like it should and occasionally you get a start that runs for a second and dies quickly. When you start with external source the fuel pump constantly primes till it dies shortly after.  Voltage from battery and Tip Sensor read correct. When you remove the hose from the throttle body fuel pours out. Pulled the coil off the plugs and each are getting spark. The only thing I can think of is either 1 faulty injector(s) or the spark plugs are just about toast. Been troubleshooting for 3 days now and it's driving me crazy. I'm about to take it Tuesday to the stealership and hopefully whatever it is is covered under warranty. I have the 5 year unlimited mile warranty anyways. Bike has 8700 miles on it. 

[mjdavis1994]

Update: so I just went out after a few hours started the bike and it started but ran rough for about 45 seconds then shut off. Started right up and same thing. I'm pretty confident it's a pump problem or injector. The pump was constantly going you could hear it over the motorcycle and I have a R77 full exhaust. 

[rick]

You might try adding some Techron to the fuel, start it and let it die and then let it sit overnight or even a couple days. the cleaner might get into the injectors  and do its thing. 

 

At 8700 miles, the plugs are due for new, but just sitting wouldn't have made them fail. Still, iir, the book says 8k miles

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mjdavis1994]

3 hours ago, rick said:

You might try adding some Techron to the fuel, start it and let it die and then let it sit overnight or even a couple days. the cleaner might get into the injectors  and do its thing. 

 

At 8700 miles, the plugs are due for new, but just sitting wouldn't have made them fail. Still, iir, the book says 8k miles

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Will pick some up tomorrow. I just need this fixed before the 1st I'm signed up for the advanced rider course. Thanks for the input much appreciated. 

[mjdavis1994]

Update: dealership just called me back, nothing was wrong with the injectors however my fuel pump wasn't pumping enough fuel. It would prime and then the once the bike started I would hear it constantly priming, aparantly that's when it would loose pressure. Also my screens back light used to flicker and now doesn't work at all. So two problems however they were able to warranty the screen and sent in the request for the fuel pump. Yamaha is unfortunately closed till Monday because of the time zone difference + thanksgiving so won't hear back from Yamaha warranty department for the pump till Monday. It should be covered though I've got the factory warranty still plus extended 5 year warranty. Thanks for all the time those that responded took out of their day learned some new things about my bike. 

[r1limited]

On 11/19/2017 at 5:48 PM, rick said:

You might try adding some Techron to the fuel, start it and let it die and then let it sit overnight or even a couple days. the cleaner might get into the injectors  and do its thing. 

 

At 8700 miles, the plugs are due for new, but just sitting wouldn't have made them fail. Still, iir, the book says 8k miles

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sea Foam  That stuff is the Schnizit Foschizzle

[rick]

Fuel pumps are usually pretty darn reliable these days - they don't like it if you run them dry, but other than hoses popping off, across brands, they rarely fail. 

 

when they replace it, ask 'em if they could see what caused it to fail.  

[mjdavis1994]

3 hours ago, rick said:

Fuel pumps are usually pretty darn reliable these days - they don't like it if you run them dry, but other than hoses popping off, across brands, they rarely fail. 

 

when they replace it, ask 'em if they could see what caused it to fail.  

I asked because the screen had to be replaced too (bike had 8700 miles now unfortunately it will read 0) and they said it was most likely just bad luck. Nothing was disconnected or loose and the pump was still priming, just not enough to continue running the bike. They already pulled the pump to see if anything was blocking it. 

[rick]

I suspect what we call gasoline these days gummed up that filter and the bearings for impeller of the pump. Might not be able to disassemble these little pumps for cleaning, but might be able to soak it in Sea Foam or Techron or whatever favorite fuel system cleaner and resurrect the thing. 

 

Unless you are willing to thoroughly clean and dry an entire fuel system so that no gasoline remains behind to dry out and clog things up, I still think it's better to store these bikes with a full tank of fresh fuel with some stabilizer added - have had good luck with Stabil - but whatever brand. This is how both of my bikes will spend the winter months from mid November till at least mid-March. Granted, there's less evaporation in a cold garage. But come spring, my 2002 Aprilia will fire right up, cough, die,  fire right back up again and run like it had a nice ride an hour ago. The FZ is ditto -  w/o the cough and die, lol. 

 

Sounds like you'll be up and running in a few days. Also sounds like you have a good dealer.

 

Happy Thanksgiving.  

 

 

[mjdavis1994]

Alright so I wanted to give another update. First I want to commend my dealership Viva Powersports in Texas. They did everything possible to make this process as easy and quick as possible. In the end my screen, fuel pump, and battery was covered under warranty. In all 900$ in parts. They replaced my spark plugs for the cost of just the plugs themselves, and I brought my leftover engine ice so the system could be burped after it got started (since it wouldn't start after I flushed it, it quite obviously wouldn't bleed the air out) and he gave it back to me using some they had at the shop and blead it for me. This is the best customer service I've gotten anywhere reguardless of the product received. Highly recommend them if you're in the El Paso/Las Cruces area. Rode her home to put the plastics on and didn't wanna stop D:

[r1limited]

8 hours ago, mjdavis1994 said:

Alright so I wanted to give another update. First I want to commend my dealership Viva Powersports in Texas. They did everything possible to make this process as easy and quick as possible. In the end my screen, fuel pump, and battery was covered under warranty. In all 900$ in parts. They replaced my spark plugs for the cost of just the plugs themselves, and I brought my leftover engine ice so the system could be burped after it got started (since it wouldn't start after I flushed it, it quite obviously wouldn't bleed the air out) and he gave it back to me using some they had at the shop and blead it for me. This is the best customer service I've gotten anywhere reguardless of the product received. Highly recommend them if you're in the El Paso/Las Cruces area. Rode her home to put the plastics on and didn't wanna stop D:

But did they get it runing and diagnose the issue?

[mjdavis1994]

3 hours ago, r1limited said:

But did they get it runing and diagnose the issue?

I told them what I thought it was and they went through their troubleshooting steps. Ended up being right but yes they got it running I rode it to work today.