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rweakley

Exhaust options

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rweakley

Hello all!  I am looking to pull the trigger on a new exhaust, but I have a few questions I need answers to first.  I have narrowed it down to three options.  I like the MIVV exhausts from Italy and the M4 slip on.  These allow me to spend as much as an Akrapovic but get an exhaust and a PCV.  The thing is I have no idea how to tune a power commander.  I've checked their website and they have no maps for either of these systems.  Very surprising, seeing as how many people have an M4.  Is there another source for getting maps for fuel?  Anyways, if I have to pay someone to tune, I'd rather go a different route.

 

I've read that the Akrapovic racing line was actually engineered to not require any fuel modifications.  I've also read that it is very quiet with the baffle in.  I don't want obnoxious, but I am looking to get louder than the stock.  If I take the baffle out, I'm back to needing a tune right?  I'm looking for suggestions on how to tackle this without spending $1500 because I know none of it is coming back to me when I sell the bike someday.

 

Oh, and I'm somewhat opposed to buying the auto tune.  I'm not taking this thing to the track, just some canyons and commuting to work.  I'm about to drop another $1350 on a full Ohlins overhaul.

 

Looking for suggestions.  Thanks guys!

Edited by rweakley

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crsnhppr

MIVV needs no controller , high quality for sure too! Also you get an exhaust that isn’t just like everyone else’s. 

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r1limited

Just my Buck Fitys worth

 

Determining what exhaust you want in today's era of motorcycles aka electronics is a little different then in back in the day bikes.  But the fundamentals are the same as I have used the following rules, 1: Application 2: Aesthetics 3: Cost 4: Planning

 

Application is for many reasons, racing types as each may have different needs, Road Race, Dirt Track etc all encompass a differing application as example, bends, length, diameter all equating to flow and how it applies to the over all achieved effect and that is Max HP and Torque in the appropriate ranges.

 

Aesthetics is a personal option and goes with design and flow of what the personal idea or conceptual idea one has in the ol noodle basket.  For me, I like a slight up swing like the Graves Full DT style or Ackra over the underbelly M4 or Yosh.  Personally I like the dual exhaust design LeoVance has th GP syle but it falls flat to me I digress

 

Cost is a huge factor for me as it applies as well to application, if I wanted to evaluate the biggest hit for the most bucks then the Ackra with a @WD flash would gain the most respect at a cost though.  However if I were building a Dirt Tracker over a Road Racer the Cost and Application would depend as well on what flash, what tune what am I going to do with the Carbs, crank, piston and cams.

 

Planning is pretty straight forward as what can I do now if I am on a budget and what do I do first.  Many argue exhaust over flash while others sya flash over exhaust.  IMO it depends on when, if you do it all at once all you have to do is plan on when and get all the parts you need together.  As example your waiting on parts such as Exhaust, Airbox etc so why not send your flash in with all the specs you are putting on the bike and by the time you get the parts you get the flash back :) Planning.

 

For simplicity and the average usage or rider, IMO cost and application is as well important, best bang for the buck.  The M4 slip on is affordable sounds great and adds some punch to the bike that is why may adopt it.  Fuel mapping is just that, it is adjusting the fuel air mixtures and can or will enhance the exhaust you are using.  Flashing however does the same thing but not on the fly and allows for IMO more comprehensive adjustments to a wider array of functions so again Application, many use both which cannot hurt.  My personal opinion go with a full flash to rid the bike of some of them more subtle issues the stock ECU has.

 

So that is my Buck Fity worh hope it helps

Edited by r1limited
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rweakley

Crsnhppr, assuming you have the MIVV, is the "no controlled required" based on baffle in?  And if so, how much louder is it than OEM?  It's hard to tell on the YOuTube vids, but doesn't seem like much of an improvement over stock (sound wise...although its way prettier than the fugly OEM can) until you take the baffle/dB killer out.

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rweakley
32 minutes ago, r1limited said:

Just my Buck Fitys worth

 

Determining what exhaust you want in today's era of motorcycles aka electronics is a little different then in back in the day bikes.  But the fundamentals are the same as I have used the following rules, 1: Application 2: Aesthetics 3: Cost 4: Planning

 

Application is for many reasons, racing types as each may have different needs, Road Race, Dirt Track etc all encompass a differing application as example, bends, length, diameter all equating to flow and how it applies to the over all achieved effect and that is Max HP and Torque in the appropriate ranges.

 

Aesthetics is a personal option and goes with design and flow of what the personal idea or conceptual idea one has in the ol noodle basket.  For me, I like a slight up swing like the Graves Full DT style or Ackra over the underbelly M4 or Yosh.  Personally I like the dual exhaust design LeoVance has th GP syle but it falls flat to me I digress

 

Cost is a huge factor for me as it applies as well to application, if I wanted to evaluate the biggest hit for the most bucks then the Ackra with a @WD flash would gain the most respect at a cost though.  However if I were building a Dirt Tracker over a Road Racer the Cost and Application would depend as well on what flash, what tune what am I going to do with the Carbs, crank, piston and cams.

 

Planning is pretty straight forward as what can I do now if I am on a budget and what do I do first.  Many argue exhaust over flash while others sya flash over exhaust.  IMO it depends on when, if you do it all at once all you have to do is plan on when and get all the parts you need together.  As example your waiting on parts such as Exhaust, Airbox etc so why not send your flash in with all the specs you are putting on the bike and by the time you get the parts you get the flash back :) Planning.

 

For simplicity and the average usage or rider, IMO cost and application is as well important, best bang for the buck.  The M4 slip on is affordable sounds great and adds some punch to the bike that is why may adopt it.  Fuel mapping is just that, it is adjusting the fuel air mixtures and can or will enhance the exhaust you are using.  Flashing however does the same thing but not on the fly and allows for IMO more comprehensive adjustments to a wider array of functions so again Application, many use both which cannot hurt.  My personal opinion go with a full flash to rid the bike of some of them more subtle issues the stock ECU has.

 

So that is my Buck Fity worh hope it helps

I'm just in it for the sound/aesthetics.  If *required* I will get a PCV, but I don't want to have to pay someone to tune it for me.  I also don't want to flash the ECU.  I just want to be able to hear a sweet exhaust note and not worry about problems (whatever these may be...not sure myself) that come from running lean or losing torque.  I'm not looking to gain any power/torque, but don't want to lose it either.

 

My goal is to do it right with as little out of pocket as I can.  Oh, and planning is what I'm working on now lol!

Edited by rweakley

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r1limited

@rweakley Than a PVC should be just fine for you (If you choose to get one)  as it will allow you to ensure you are not running lean as a exhaust would do "effectivly" whatever exahust you do if it is not Stock.  As the bike is gentically tuned with all that stock equipment as well as the EPA and local state version of the EPA requirments are for emmisions.  It is very rare that you do not make other adjustments to balance the difference when changing exhausts.  In the day it was jets, now its mapping or flash.

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rweakley
1 hour ago, r1limited said:

@rweakley Than a PVC should be just fine for you (If you choose to get one)  as it will allow you to ensure you are not running lean as a exhaust would do "effectivly" whatever exahust you do if it is not Stock.  As the bike is gentically tuned with all that stock equipment as well as the EPA and local state version of the EPA requirments are for emmisions.  It is very rare that you do not make other adjustments to balance the difference when changing exhausts.  In the day it was jets, now its mapping or flash.

But is this something I can do myself?  I'm a pretty smart dude, but I don't have the foundation to build from right now.  Where else can you find maps besides the power commander website.  I emailed the Mivv guys to see if they have one, but who knows if they even speak English lol.  The collection on the PC website is quite limited.  Basically Yoshi, Akra and Two Brothers IIRC.

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r1limited

There is no DiY kit, you have to buy the main ingrdiants to bake the cake.  From thereit is a matter of play.  You may want to read through this post

 

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shinyribs

I bought an Arrow X Kone system for my bike. I don't personally care for the underbelly systems, and I thought it was the most attractive upswept system out there. It's still considerably lighter than stock.

 

Arrow assured me through email that their system doesn't require an ECU flash, Power Commander or any additional tuning. Though they do admit you likely will only see a power increase if you do tune bike accordingly. All the aftermarket systems are within a couple hp of each other. It mainly comes down to which you like the look and sound of the most. 

 

I've ran the bike about 2,000 miles with this system installed and see no loss of power anywhere. I hesitate to say that I feel like the bike has more power, but I believe the flat spot I felt around the mid-range has improved noticeably over the stock exhaust. The strong engine braking these bikes are known for seems slightly lowered as well. I did not flash my ECU or run any other tuners on my bike. Zero issues for me and only very, very slight popping on decel, and only in certain conditions. It never pops under normal riding. This is with the baffle both in and out. Still running 87 octane and the bike went from mid/low 40's mpg to consistent 52-54mpg. But there mpg increase may be due to break-in, though. 

 

With the baffle in, the bike is not obnoxiously loud, but it's very obvious today you have an aftermarket exhaust, too. Very nice deep sound. With the baffle out the bike absolutely roars. I'm always slipping the baffle in and out depending on my mood. One simple snap ring is all it takes to change it. Takes about 5 seconds. 

 

$780 was a lot of money for this system, but I didn't  have to drop $300 on any additional tuning, so I think the price balances out in the end. And build quality is gorgeous. 

 

That said, I may end up with a Flashtune kit at some point, but it'll be more of a toy than a necessity. My bike is running fine now, but I would like the option to "turn off" the engine braking to see if I like it better that way. I can't see paying around $300 for that right now, and the bike obviously doesn't need any other tuning, so I'm not even sure if I ever will. But my inner child always wants new toys to play with...

 

 

Edited by shinyribs

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norcal616

EU bikes don't really need a tune for an aftermarket exhaust

US specs bikes will need one...yes Yamaha sells the akra Ti but you will notice it only gets sold via EU bikes...

 

US oem spec bikes run like shyt compared to EU oem bikes... gotta love the cancer known as EPA

 

Many many of these EU brand exhaust, MIVV, Black Widow, Leo Vince to name a few are built off the EU spec fueling, yes they say you may not need tuning but you will see more performance with a tune ( this a statement to convince you to buy it but also covering thy ass by saying you will see improved performance with a tune if potentially it ends up on a US bike) ...

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shinyribs
8 minutes ago, norcal616 said:

 

 

US spec bikes run like shyt compared to EU bikes

I've seen people repeat this comment several times but, in all my searching, I never can find any sold info on this idea. Do you have any info? I'm really curious about this. 

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norcal616
23 minutes ago, shinyribs said:

I've seen people repeat this comment several times but, in all my searching, I never can find any sold info on this idea. Do you have any info? I'm really curious about this. 

EU bikes don't gotta deal with EPA rules, in the many years I been on this forum, I can't even remember a EU member saying the engine braking is obnoxious compared to the US members who almost always say something about the engine braking... as for information  it's stuff I picked up over the years reading ppl Comments, very very few ppl got the chance to ride a FZ-07 then go ride a MT-07...

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r1limited

OR CARB "Commifornia Air Resource Board"

1 hour ago, norcal616 said:

EU bikes don't gotta deal with EPA rules

 

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rweakley
6 hours ago, r1limited said:

There is no DiY kit, you have to buy the main ingrdiants to bake the cake.  From thereit is a matter of play.  You may want to read through this post

 

So, if you go to the power commander website, they have a few maps (like 13) available for download.  If I were to download one of those, would that give me a good solution?  I don't know if I'd want to go messing around with it, trying to tweak it, as I might goof it up.

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FZ07R WaNaB
23 minutes ago, rweakley said:

So, if you go to the power commander website, they have a few maps (like 13) available for download.  If I were to download one of those, would that give me a good solution?  I don't know if I'd want to go messing around with it, trying to tweak it, as I might goof it up.

 

My $0.02 worth of experience, spend the money on the suspension, and then spend the $320 on a 2WDW flash. Ride the bike for a while, save your money for the exhaust, and if you want to go that route - do it. While you are at it, get a Yamaha R6 throttle tube ($20). I have had the flash for about 5000 miles, and I still get amazed at how much better the bike is. I knew within 1 block that I was riding a completely different motorcycle. I've done quite a few tweaks to my FZ, but if asked to pick only one, it would absolutely be getting the ECU flashed - it really makes that much of a difference!

 

The added bonus is that 2WDW will reflash the ECU for just the cost of shipping after the first flash, so if you decided to get a pipe, you will get it retuned for that specific pipe basically for free.

 

Edited by FZ07R WaNaB
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stickshift
7 hours ago, norcal616 said:

EU bikes don't gotta deal with EPA rules, in the many years I been on this forum, I can't even remember a EU member saying the engine braking is obnoxious compared to the US members who almost always say something about the engine braking... as for information  it's stuff I picked up over the years reading ppl Comments, very very few ppl got the chance to ride a FZ-07 then go ride a MT-07...

EU and all other market MT's inject no fuel on engine decel, same as US bikes.

 

The engine braking on my Aussie model is massive, you soon learn to use the characteristics to advantage.

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stickshift
4 hours ago, rweakley said:

So, if you go to the power commander website, they have a few maps (like 13) available for download.  If I were to download one of those, would that give me a good solution?  I don't know if I'd want to go messing around with it, trying to tweak it, as I might goof it up.

Yes, there will be a suitable map. You don't need a map specific to the brand of your chosen exhaust, you need a fuel (& ignition) map suited to the flow characteristics. 

 

Those13 maps cover pretty much any exhaust flow characteristics, it's only when you start modifying the intake and other engine parts that you'd have to get a custom tune.

 

I run a pcv, installed the map for my exhaust (Akra ti baffle in) and it ran perfect. Removed the intake snorkel, downloaded suitable map and it ran perfect. Technically you can run this exhaust (safely) without a remap, however there was a noticeable performance increase associated with using each of these maps.

 

I'd be happy to give you advice on pcv maps when you decide on your exhaust.

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crsnhppr
On 11/12/2017 at 12:03 PM, rweakley said:

Crsnhppr, assuming you have the MIVV, is the "no controlled required" based on baffle in?  And if so, how much louder is it than OEM?  It's hard to tell on the YOuTube vids, but doesn't seem like much of an improvement over stock (sound wise...although its way prettier than the fugly OEM can) until you take the baffle/dB killer out.

Yeah baffle in requires no fuel controller. It is much louder than stock because the stock is dead quiet and this you can hear it but it’s definitly not obnoxiously loud or droning or harsh at all. Very tame sounding and provides gains even on stock fueling.  Baffle our it’s best to use some sort of fueling 2wdw has a flash for the MIVV , I just run an EJK because it’s a little cheaper and puts you “back in the green” and restores and increases low end torque and high end power creating more power than baffle in/no fueling changes. It is loud as balls and throaty and mean sounding baffle out and sounds super. So get one already exhaust + tune or exhaust+ ejk. Either way you’ll be like, “that was a good idea”

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phyciocc

For what is worth:  I have  a Mivv Oval carbon with the baffle in and a EJK.

Bought the exhaust direct from Italy and saved a few bucs.

Saved a ton of weight, too.

My dyno-butt- meter tells me that the bike pulls like tractor in ANY gear, and there are no “holes” anywhere, better than stock.

And it does sound like a motorcycle, not a sewing machine...

Not overly loud, but if you get on it, you can hear her.

The baffle is removable, if you really want loud.

Marco

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rweakley
On 11/12/2017 at 10:53 PM, stickshift said:

I'd be happy to give you advice on pcv maps when you decide on your exhaust.

I will take you up on that for sure!  I am looking into getting an FTECU instead because you can load it with PCV maps.  So it seems like it offers the best of both worlds.  Although I have no actual experience in these things.

 

Well I've narrowed down to the M4 and Mivv, unless the dude at sportbiketrackgear can give me a mil discount to bring the Yoshi down to a comparable price.  I'm torn between the two (Mivv/M4).  I wish I knew some peeps nearby with these.  I know the M4 is one of the loudest we can get and sounds good but may be too loud for some.  But I've read posts that say the Mivv is NOT loud.  I want loud, just not obnoxiously so.  Crsnhppr & phyciocc definitely made me lean a bit more toward Mivv.  Thanks fellas!

Edited by rweakley

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stickshift

I have the akra ti with baffle in, one of the quietest aftermarket options (I can't stand obnoxiously loud exhausts) and damn does it sound sweet!

 

I don't think youll be disappointed with either of your options.

 

Which Mivv system are you considering?

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rweakley
12 hours ago, stickshift said:

I have the akra ti with baffle in, one of the quietest aftermarket options (I can't stand obnoxiously loud exhausts) and damn does it sound sweet!

 

I don't think youll be disappointed with either of your options.

 

Which Mivv system are you considering?

Looking at the speed edge.  The normal one, not the one with the under belly muffler with a long pipe.  Its a shorter can than the oval or gp from what I can tell, which I also like.

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rweakley
On 11/12/2017 at 10:53 PM, stickshift said:

Yes, there will be a suitable map. You don't need a map specific to the brand of your chosen exhaust, you need a fuel (& ignition) map suited to the flow characteristics. 

 

Those13 maps cover pretty much any exhaust flow characteristics, it's only when you start modifying the intake and other engine parts that you'd have to get a custom tune.

 

I run a pcv, installed the map for my exhaust (Akra ti baffle in) and it ran perfect. Removed the intake snorkel, downloaded suitable map and it ran perfect. Technically you can run this exhaust (safely) without a remap, however there was a noticeable performance increase associated with using each of these maps.

 

I'd be happy to give you advice on pcv maps when you decide on your exhaust.

Hey I'm ready to take you up on this.  I've got the exhaust installed, and it sounds sweet.  I didn't install the pre-muffler dB killer.  I'm still deciding if I want to run the one in the tip.  It sounds great either way, but I'm not sure how loud I want when daily driving to work.  In any case, they have a bunch of maps on the DT website, but they don't say whether they're for baffle-in or -out.  I'm sure this has an effect on the tune.  Anyways, I'd be happy  to take whatever advice you can offer.  I may be pulling the snorkel too.

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r1limited
2 hours ago, rweakley said:

I didn't install the pre-muffler dB killer.  I'm still deciding if I want to run the one in the tip

Ya just added the Yosh on my FZ this weekend.  Not sure what I want to do with e DB, neighbos have not complained yet as I had it running about an hour yesterday and today

 

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stickshift
On 12/11/2017 at 9:41 AM, rweakley said:

Hey I'm ready to take you up on this.  I've got the exhaust installed, and it sounds sweet. 

I can certainly recommend removing the airbox snorkel, it does increase performance once you adjust the fuelling to suit it. You can remove it from the airbox by taking off the seat and reaching under the tank, no need to remove anything else.

 

These are the two different maps I would recommend with snorkel removed - one for your baffles out and one for baffles fitted.

 

Baffles out - Yoshi R77 snorkel removed (22-065-011)

Both baffles in -  Akrapovic snorkel out (22-065-007)

 

Make sure you upload both the fuel map table and the ignition map table to your PCV (watch a youtube vid if you're unsure). These generic maps will work fine, however don't be tempted to fit any aftermarket air filters, it will screw up the fuelling (for very little performance gain in my opinion).

 

Let us know how it goes!

Edited by stickshift

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