Body positioning when cornering fast-ish?

[bornagainbiker]

When I lean my FZ into a corner I usually use a hint of dirt riding style: basically I lean the bike a small amount more than I lean my body, staying just slightly more upright than the bike.  I do this because it feels right to me and I have had no issues with this riding style.  Maybe there's still a little of the dirt biker left in me, even though I haven't ridden off road for many years. 

[shinyribs]

1 hour ago, faffi said:

I do. I find it fascinating, even I will never be able to replicate.

Context, faffi. Everything in context.

 

Sure, it's fascinating, but it doesn't relate to everyday riding. I'm unsure why some people can't grasp that idea. 

[digitalsteve]

Wow... this went south quick.

 

Anyway, it works and it's easier on the MT-07 to corner that way; I always felt I had to fight to really lean over and hang a bit.

 

Now, instead of lower bars, I feel like I need slightly higher and wider bars!

[blackout]

I never road dirt bikes when I was younger because I road three-wheelers instead.  I had a 1985 Tecate 250 that I wish I never sold.  So I have no dirt bike experience.

 

I had a road bike, Katana 600, for 5 years when I was in my 20's.  Two years ago, I turn 44 and decide I want to get into road bikes again and track the bike as well.  The FZ-07 was my choice because the power seemed just right for an older and new guy to track riding.  I bought Lee Parks book and read that through.  The book clearly explains for cornering at faster speeds, which was the original question, one wants to move your body weight to the inside to reduce lean angle by adding more weight to counter centrifugal forces.  Less lean angle means you have more room for correction if you need to steer around a hidden object in the middle of a corner.  I have only tracked my bike three times, but the coaches at the track have advised me to use a body position similar to what Lee Parks suggests in his book.  Keep in mind, his book is designed for street riding and ALL types of bikes.    

[r1limited]

[shinyribs]

7 hours ago, Beemer said:

shinyribs - I say this without malice. I didn't say anything that would imply I got militant, no need for labeling. I don't know what else to say. I can't make you open your eyes and mind to the video or anything I've said. It's obvious I'm spinning my wheels so believe your science if that's your choice while me and many others go on riding this way without incident. Have a great day and stay frosty! 

Beemer, I'll repeat what I've already repeated before, then I'll leave it at that. 

 

I never said your method didn't work. I even admitted to employing it myself when necessary. I only think that promoting this style of cornering as acceptable for anyone, on any road, at any time...is not the right thing to do. 

 

There's a clear distinction there. I hope you catch it. If not, so be it. 

 

I typically don't jabber like this in the internet, and I don't intend to again. 

 

But, R1, for goodness sake, can you stop with the "butthurt" comment horseshit? I have no idea what it is about two people disagreeing makes you think about arse pains. Absolutely no clue where your head is at there. But that's the same lingo adolescent kids use on Facebook to goad each other. C'mon man, rise above that. 

[r1limited]

2 hours ago, shinyribs said:

t, R1, for goodness sake, can you stop with the "butthurt" comment horseshit? I have no idea what it is about two people disagreeing makes you think about arse pains. Absolutely no clue where your head is at there. But that's the same lingo adolescent kids use on Facebook to goad each other. C'mon man, rise above that. 

Now that is freakin funny for a guy who just flipped me off in pack of posts.

[Beemer]

18 hours ago, shinyribs said:

I think you're finally getting the point. Do you think teaching beginners to drift corners is smart? Do you think experienced riders should be preparing to drift every corner? 

 

 

Nobody ever said it was impossible. The point is, it's extremely unnecessary on the street and not a way to advise someone to ride when they're asking for basic advice. 

 

Nobody really gives a f@#k what Rossi is doing at wot on a closed course. 

Just wow! I'm simply making a point of something, I didn't suggest for anyone to go out and drift. Again, you have taken something I've said and contorted it all to hell to mean something else entirely and that's not normal. Seriously, I'm concerned for you. Are you on meds? Did you forget to take your meds? Are you feeling alright? Do you need help?

[Beemer]

20 hours ago, r1limited said:

Actually it was Roberts who introduced backing it in, Rossi was sticking his foot out like a rudder

I don't know who started it, Rossi is the one that everyone talks about for doing it so I just used him as a good example of the technique, NOT THAT I'M SUGGESTING ANYONE TRY IT, ESPECIALLY A NOOB. IS EVERYONE GETTING THAT? Not directed at you, r1limited but I think you know that.

[Beemer]

16 hours ago, digitalsteve said:

Wow... this went south quick.

 

Anyway, it works and it's easier on the MT-07 to corner that way; I always felt I had to fight to really lean over and hang a bit.

 

Now, instead of lower bars, I feel like I need slightly higher and wider bars!

And there you have it! The proof is in the pudding or didn't Bill Nye teach some people that? I'm glad it works for you and glad that I could help. Don't worry about me getting needlessly beat up, I'm used to it. 

[shinyribs]

44 minutes ago, Beemer said:

Just wow! I'm simply making a point of something, I didn't suggest for anyone to go out and drift. Again, you have taken something I've said and contorted it all to hell to mean something else entirely and that's not normal. Seriously, I'm concerned for you. Are you on meds? Did you forget to take your meds? Are you feeling alright? Do you need help?

Seriously concerned for me? I've contorted your words? ..... Don't piss down my leg and try to convince me it's raining.  I'm no fool. 

 

This is the second time you've suggested this "technique" in the "New Rider's Advice" subforum. And this is the same way it went down last time. I firmly believe it's bad advice to be telling NEW RIDERS in the NEW RIDERS ADVICE forum to attempt to ride their bike like a sumo and/or dirtbike. The last time I disagreed with this you and R1 threw a fit as if I personally attacked your reputation, now you are both doing it again. 

 

And yes, you are promoting drifting. Here are your exact words C&P"

 

" I only do that if I actually see something in a corner that I think may cause the tire to slide out. I'll throw the leg out in preparation and cross my fingers I don't have to slam my foot down (it can hurt a bit doing it on hard pavement) and have to use all my leg strength to hold the bike up while the rear tire is way out in BFE. "

 

There are far more useful ideas for THE NEW RIDERS  forum than telling people it's normal to dirt track their FZ around on public streets. This is a bad idea, and you know it. Hopefull NEW RIDERS reading this will know it, too. 

 

You and R1 can both keep replying with overly dramatic posts, acting as if I'm throwing a tantrum ( I'M not the one throwing a tantrum), but I simply do not care. I did not contort anything. I simply stated it was bad advice, and gave my reasons for thinking that. I can't help that it makes you angry for me to disagree with you. You can keep telling NEW RIDERS in the NEW RIDERS ADVICE subforum to go flat track mode.I already said I'm out. If someone gets hurt doing it- that's on you. I hope you are happy. I'm not going to argue with anyone about it ever again. Happy? You won on the internet. Does it feel good? Do you feel cool now? Was feeling cool on the internet worth possibly endangering a NEW RIDER? I hope so. Enjoy.

 

My thoughts and opinions on this forum are obviously not worth much, and frankly, who cares? But I'm disappointed that the owner of this forum allows this type of advice to be given freely in this particular subforum. It's bad advice for new riders. The FZ07 is a hugely popular model for new riders with is compact size, affordable pricing and modern styling. This forum gets a lot of traffic from noob riders, so I voiced my opinion. You didn't like my opinion, but I never tried to make it personal. Carry on with your sage advice on sliding the rear tire out. It's on you, not me. 

[r1limited]

42 minutes ago, Beemer said:

And there you have it! The proof is in the pudding or didn't Bill Nye teach some people that? I'm glad it works for you and glad that I could help. Don't worry about me getting needlessly beat up, I'm used to it. 

Funny you say that...

I mean really Funny you say that

 

Me thinks sumbutty gots a hard on fer us 😆

[Beemer]

Ummm, shinyribs, your words >>> "And yes, you are promoting drifting. Here are your exact words C&P"

" I only do that if I actually see something in a corner that I think may cause the tire to slide out. I'll throw the leg out in preparation and cross my fingers I don't have to slam my foot down (it can hurt a bit doing it on hard pavement) and have to use all my leg strength to hold the bike up while the rear tire is way out in BFE. "

 

I wasn't talking about drifting when I said that, I was talking about putting a leg out when leaning in a turn like you're riding in the dirt. A lot of times you see guys on race tracks throw their foot down onto the pavement when their rear end gets out of control so it's not unlike them when a street rider does the same thing. It's sort of a last resort thing to do (you don't have to be a pro to do it either) and it's better than just letting the bike hit the ground with you on it. Can we agree on that?! I really do hope you understand that because I'm so done having to explain myself over and over. Maybe that was your goal, to drive me crazy, ha! later!

[r1limited]

1 hour ago, Beemer said:

I don't know who started it, Rossi is the one that everyone talks about for doing it so I just used him as a good example of the technique, NOT THAT I'M SUGGESTING ANYONE TRY IT, ESPECIALLY A NOOB. IS EVERYONE GETTING THAT? Not directed at you, r1limited but I think you know that.

Well I know and because I tought Roberts that whole back it in thing and knee down stuff.  I tell noobs this, look noob, (Wagging Finger) you better listen because well, I listened when I was like ,,, well ,,,, Actually I never listen.

BUt the truth is, some people will head to advise others will read into it and even though they can read have no comprenisve skill set to actually comprehend what is being stated.  Instead they huff and they puff and the .. Wel get all bent out of shape.  Moral of the story is...
Spell right
Make sure you put emoticons in the right place

Never trust a fart while typing in a rage.

[blackout]

The best advise can be found here....

[rider]

It's all in the variables.  What is the radius of the curve?  Is it increasing, decreasing, constant?  Surface traction of the curve?  How much room do you have if you screw it up?  There is not a generic answer for all curves.  There'll be different answers from different riders on different bikes with different mods on different curves in different weather.

Take a curve at a speed slower than you think you can handle it.  When you do it again, try whatever techniques you want - nothing that I've seen in this post will crash you, just take it easy at first.  See what's right for you and your experience level and what is right for your bike and the way it is set up.  Don't out-run your abilities.  Don't get too cocky.  Don't be stupid.  When you find what seems to work for you, practice, practice, practice.  Get better.  Then practice more.

Slow is fast.  Practice slow, fast will come.  This is a training technique used in the military, shooting, sports, music and just about everything that requires technique and muscle memory.

Given that, in normal riding at legal speeds on the roads I ride, I don't find it necessary to do anything special to get through a curve, I just sit on the bike and go.  At higher speeds on tighter curves (that I've been through and know what's ahead), I tend to crowd the tank, kiss the mirror, and maybe hang a cheek off the inside a bit. Get your body in position before the curve, don't be squirming around in the curve.  I don't drag a knee, though I sometimes stick the inside knee out a little( I've never drug anything on the FZ-07).

But that's me, everybody's different, ride your own ride.

 

[r1limited]

LEARN FROM THE MASTER

 

 

[gregjet]

Shineyribs, Are you referring to me about " it's normal to dirt track their FZ around on public streets.".

I suggested you motard style body position because it helps keep more weight on the front. At no stage did I mention sliding anywhere. In fact it should help STOP the FRONT sliding by putting some load on it. That is the point.

[shinyribs]

2 hours ago, gregjet said:

Shineyribs, Are you referring to me about " it's normal to dirt track their FZ around on public streets.".

I suggested you motard style body position because it helps keep more weight on the front. At no stage did I mention sliding anywhere. In fact it should help STOP the FRONT sliding by putting some load on it. That is the point.

No, sir. I wasn't directing anything towards you. 

[r1limited]

@gregjetOh no, I am the flat tracker, let me add for the protection of the noob as well as for the "perspicaciously anal flipper offer sheeple types' regarding the allegorical point of ride it like a flat tracker!

 

To the Noob: First, I think your intelligent enough to understand that flat tracking is a style as well as Americas first Extreme sport Not counting Hill Climb Yet to point I did not say ride it like a Hill Climber no this would be incorrect as the style to ride a Hill Climber is vastly differing than a flat tracker, If I said like a TT bike then that would be more specific to style yet I digress, the allegory here is to ride it like a flat tracker is simply by affirming a style, if you never riden a flat tracker raced or watched a flat track TT or Mile race, I suggest you watch a few and then derive your own conclusion.  Compare this to say a Motoard race or even a Cross Country/MX race and just validate and confirm body position then compare those to the Road Race bikes.  Evaluate as I have clearly stated what you want to try, encorporate or add to "YOUR STYLE" of ride.  Of course you are intelegent enough to understand the skill set to back a motorcycle into a corner, or twist and lean a bike forcibly, yes I wont insult "your" intellect because your learning and well mistakes happen and Darwin is right.

 

To the perspicaciously anal flipper offer sheeple types: <-- Read this a few times

[Beemer]

Please, no more.

 

 

[faffi]

Yes, I think it is time to stop the name-calling. Forum is more fun if we get along, and ignore those we cannot agree with.

[r1limited]

15 minutes ago, faffi said:

Yes, I think it is time to stop the name-calling. Forum is more fun if we get along, and ignore those we cannot agree with.

For the record I am not name calling I am stereo typing a group

I hear ya, my appolgies to the forum.

[faffi]

Pity I cannot give both the thumbs up and the LOL to that, the LOL won 😉

[blackout]

2 hours ago, r1limited said:

@gregjetOh no, I am the flat tracker, let me add for the protection of the noob as well as for the "perspicaciously anal flipper offer sheeple types' regarding the allegorical point of ride it like a flat tracker!

 

To the Noob: First, I think your intelligent enough to understand that flat tracking is a style as well as Americas first Extreme sport Not counting Hill Climb Yet to point I did not say ride it like a Hill Climber no this would be incorrect as the style to ride a Hill Climber is vastly differing than a flat tracker, If I said like a TT bike then that would be more specific to style yet I digress, the allegory here is to ride it like a flat tracker is simply by affirming a style, if you never riden a flat tracker raced or watched a flat track TT or Mile race, I suggest you watch a few and then derive your own conclusion.  Compare this to say a Motoard race or even a Cross Country/MX race and just validate and confirm body position then compare those to the Road Race bikes.  Evaluate as I have clearly stated what you want to try, encorporate or add to "YOUR STYLE" of ride.  Of course you are intelegent enough to understand the skill set to back a motorcycle into a corner, or twist and lean a bike forcibly, yes I wont insult "your" intellect because your learning and well mistakes happen and Darwin is right.

 

To the perspicaciously anal flipper offer sheeple types: <-- Read this a few times

There was no need for that post.  Stop pushing buttons please.  Thanks.