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Bigturbomax

Body positioning when cornering fast-ish?

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Bigturbomax

So, kind of a newb problem i guess. I rode many miles on my old katana and it sort of forced you into a sporting position so cornering was always pretty easy. This being my first "standard" bike i find myself having difficulty with long sweeping turns around 50-55mph and really putting some lean on the bike. I feel wobbly when doing it. No problems on long freeway turns and perfectly comfortable 25-40 or so on tight turns in town. I keep my hands/arms "loose" to steer and keep knees tight gripping tank on these turns. Anyway, i guess im looking for suggestions or referral to good reading material on the subject. Im sure some if this has to do with me being away from a motorcycle for 6 years or so, but im also pretty sure i could be doing something different in these turns to feel more confident/stable. I have the stock battle axe tires at the correct pressure, im about 220lbs with gear and am on stock suspension with rear shock set to 8. Ive put almost 700 miles on this new bike and have a 1 inch chicken stip on the left side of rear tire and dang near 1.5 inch chicken stip on the right side lol. HELP!

Edited by Bigturbomax

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Bigturbomax

Heres an example-blue spings road in the picture. Its one of my alternate ways to work that i take sometimes for the fun of it. That long sweeping turn is a great example if the sort of road im having trouble with. Ive taken that turn in the mid 60s with my focus ST with the car perfectly planted, so the road surface isnt terrible. Why cant i go 55 through there on the bike?

Screenshot_20171022-142734-1080x1920.png

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gregjet

You have the preload blues. Not you ( OK the weight bit IS you ) but the problem is the soft stock springs and the preload you need for weight .

 You set it to proper sag and the bike will sit ok until up load past the initial state. Then because the actual RATE is too low it will blow through a heap of travel. As it returns it unloads into the full extended preloaded area. It then has to "break" the preload again before it moves. That makes the bike feel like it is wobbling around or weaving.

Fix is easy and expensive Proper shockies/springs for the rear and at the very least the correct springs for the front soggy things that yamaha refers to as fork springs. Just changing the fork springs will , especially in your case, overpower the questionable damping of the forks. You may get some relief with heavier fork oil, but real damping is preferable, either as gold valve emulators or aftermarket "cartridges".

Much good stuff in this forum from very knowledgeable people. Check out the suspension area. There is some of the best stuff I have seen on any forum.

 

PS this bike will reward you for spending money on good suspension. It is a fun bike to ride set up right.

Edited by gregjet
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Bigturbomax

So...i know some of my trouble is my own weight not helping. I used to be 190 for aa lot of my life and let myself slip for a while lol. 2 months ago i was 226 without gear lol. Ive been trying on worked my way down to 213 without gear. Its slow going lol. So, since i cant afford suspension upgrades for a while.....i should probably just accept the handling the bike can offer for now and keep improving my own weight haha. Original question tho, in tge meantime is there anything i can do ad far as how i handle the bike? 

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gregjet

There is one thing that will help. The bike has a rear weight bias ( with rider). If you slip forward on the seat , and put more weight on the bars and your feet, and stand up slightly, motard style it will move you weight more forward and you can use your legs as a bit of suspension ( they are very good at it as they do it for a living). A set of lower and more forward bars ( clamps) will help and is a cheap partial fix.

You need to be aware though that suspension blowthrough can be a sorce of unpleasant tank slappers on bad surfaces..

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norcal616

Not saying you need to drag a knee, but at least move your butt "crack" towards the edge of seat and pop the knee out a bit2017-FZ-07-Yamaha-Sports-Bike-Action.jpg.c9711513c59530011d4ee3dff9c8a08a.jpg

 

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digitalsteve

I'm with you, mate; I can't really crank the bike over like my previous bikes.... the suspension is unsettled and the stock bar position is a bit strange.

I found mounting right up to the tank and hanging off the bike a bit helps, but the front is still unsettled.

I'm going to change out my suspension soon.

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c0al67

I'm 200lbs with gear on and i know exactly what you mean. Front end felt very odd during long corners and very unstable. I went with new springs, emulators, and damper rods from traxxion dynamics. The kit is $300. Literally a night and day difference in the feel of the bike when cornering though. For the 400-500 range, you can get a full on cartridge kit, which is even better still. 

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Bigturbomax

Well, i appreciate the info and advice guys. I definately want to upgrade suspension down the line but its not financially doable right now. In the meantime, ill be trying to change my position a bit to put more weight on the front. And well see about the butt half off the seat technique. I mean, its just the opposite of counter weighting the bike in a low speed turn...shouldnt be too difficult lol!

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crsnhppr

Don’t feel bad about chicken strips, the more the bike is upright the more stable it is. You can use body positioning to turn faster and harder and tighter and not necessarily the bike would be leaned over as far as to rub the tires all the way to their edges.

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crsnhppr

One of my first fast rides ( with the fz)I was with about 7 liter bikes on some backroads hauling ... going too fast really. Anyways I’d have my ass nearly off the seat ,

my head forward down below my bars and I’d be hanging with them in the corners no problem . I kinda kinda ride my bike supermoto ish , nuts on the tank and reallly dropping my elbow and getting my head down far , with half a cheek off.

Edited by crsnhppr
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shinyribs

Coming directly from daily riding a KLR 650 to the FZ 07, it was very obvious that those two bikes handled extremely differently. No brainer, I know. But my point is that the KLR hated counter steering. Large front tire and very relaxed rake on the KLR made it get goofy under hard counter steering. That bike just wanted you to sit up straight and lean the whole bike to corner. Even being very top heavy and tall ( 36" seat height, pegs 14" off the ground) you could still drag pegs, but not with counter steering. 

 

 

In comparison, the FZ 07 responds extremely well to counter steering. When test riding an FZ 07 I noticed quickly that simply leaning in to a corner didn't do much for the bike, but a little pressure on the bars did wonders!

 

If the bike feels like it's resisting leaning in to a corner with you just leaning your body to turn, try a little counter steering. I don't have any scientific reasons to back it up, but it works very well for me. Test it slowly. A little counter steering goes a long way. 

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digitalsteve

^ I feel that it needs a heap more bar pressure actually as opposed to just leaning. I also had a KLR650 then a GS500F.... both of them you could just lean around corners; the FZ07 (MT07) feels like it needs to be muscled.

 

Having nuts up on the tank and weighting the front end seemed to help a bit.

 

Again, I'm keen to change the suspension.

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r1limited

Rake needs to be brought in a few degrees, suspension set for individual rider weight and preferences.

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blackout

This book is a good one.

0801161631.jpg

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mt7fan

You always counter steer to corner, even if you're thinking you are only leaning.

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glockpointer

I got some preload adjustable fork caps off ebay that worked great, then went with some racetech springs when I wanted more. Far from perfect but it really balanced the the bike front to back. Fork caps were 35$, springs were a bill.

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blackout
8 hours ago, mt7fan said:

You always counter steer to corner, even if you're thinking you are only leaning.

Yes, the bike only leans how much it needs to counter centrifugal forces.  Telling someone to lean more in the corner is misleading I think.  You start a turn with a counter steering input on the handle bars and then mid turn you use direct steering to adjust your line.  Well, that's what makes sense for me anyways.

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gregjet

What you are doing is balancing the stand up force against the lay down force. You counter steer, the bike starts falling, then you put some direct steer back until the two forces balance. You adjust your line by both more counter steer AND direct steer until you balance again. Same on a bicycle which is why you shouldn't give you kids training wheels because they make the "bike" direct steer and it won't help them learn the right way around.

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r1limited

I watched Karate Kid I am a ninja now

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Slug

Something that helped me in corners was the COW method, which means Chin Over Wrist. Lean off the bike and have your chin a little above and behind your wrist looking through the apex. It helped me to actually have a set place to put my body, and not just going with what I "thought" was right.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, take an advanced sport bike riders course. It helps a ton.

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r1limited
27 minutes ago, Slug said:

Something that helped me in corners was the COW method, which means Chin Over Wrist. Lean off the bike and have your chin a little above and behind your wrist looking through the apex. It helped me to actually have a set place to put my body, and not just going with what I "thought" was right.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, take an advanced sport bike riders course. It helps a ton.

COW, never heard that, I was always told to look at your self in the mirror, I guess thats pretty much the same

Edited by r1limited

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Bigturbomax

So i tried out some advice given here and found scooting a little further forward on the seat and adjusting my butt placement side to side has made a tremendous difference. Hanging a little off the bike is certainly kinda akward initially, but really seems to help. No overnight fixes or anything but i find the bike responds and stabilizes much better with these minor changes. I also removed about 3/8ths of an inch from the chicken lines on both sides or my rear tire :). im gonna get a copy of the total control book and study that a bit. I dont know how soon i can afford an advanced rider's course but i plan to do it before any suspension mods. I dont see reason to upgrade that yet since i cant currently use the stock bike to its potential lol. Ill update further findings as i get more practice on it. I actually find this bike more fun since its more physically engaging and requires you to ride better. My katana was NOTHING like this haha!

Edited by Bigturbomax
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gregjet

"My katana was NOTHING like this haha!"

Yep.

Find someone with a properly suspended 07, ride it and you may just have to sell a kidney...It's waaay funner!

 

The 07 is FUN to ride. Not often you can say that about a bike. Most are enjoyable, or give you a big power kick, or allow you to cruise and not think about riding , but this bike is just FUN!

 

KTM690 Duke with the fuelling fixed is similar, but a little more brutal.

Edited by gregjet

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Beemer

I just push down on the handlebar, lean with it and VOILA, I'm through the turn! People were making it through turns long before the "hang-off" style was invented. Not saying it doesn't help but it's usually not necessary.

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