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Zephyr

Hi all.  I was curious if you veterans could lend some insight.  My bike died when I was travelling across the island a few weeks back.  At the time I was worried that it overheated or had another "catastrophic" failure.  After I couldn't find any apparent reason, I figured that I must have accidentally hit the kill switch when stretching my hands as it was a bit cold and I had swapped control to my left hand momentarily.  Then on Saturday the same thing happened just a few hundred yards after leaving my driveway.  This time I recognized the same symptoms, but was sure that I hadn't done anything to cause the bike to "die". 

 

I have already done research and figured that it could either be the clutch switch or the side stand switch.  I checked them both to the best of my abilities and they both seem to be in good and proper working order.  I am leaning towards the side stand switch starting to go bad as the bike still has electrical power and requires to be put into neutral prior to starting back up.  I haven't been able to force the bike to recreate the issue.

 

Is there any surefire way to troubleshoot this issue or should I just replace the side stand switch as a precautionary action? 

 

Also if anyone could explain exactly what the clutch switch does with regards to the bike, then that would be much appreciated as well.

Edited by Zephyr

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r1limited

I do not have a manual if someone can dig up the OHMS check for that switch and how to test.  Since you mention no diagnostice code I am equally unsure if or how to display any if recorded.  You said symptoms leading up, can you be more detailed, as to what transpired before and up to the engine shutting off.  For sure it is electrical, it can be a short as well someplace else, cold could be dampness or you may be seeing as mentioned a switch starting to faulter.

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norcal616

a bad clutch switch shouldn't stop a bike mid ride in my experience... the clutch switch allows you to start the bike in any gear if the clutch is pulled in...

 

kickstand sensor going wonky will kill a bike mid ride...

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Eastern Kayaker

I agree with @norcal616, the kickstand sensor sounds like the culprit. The clutch switch when working properly, allows you to start the bike in gear after you pull in the clutch. This assumes the kickstand is raised.

 

I remember reading last year a couple members with a bad kickstand sensor. They had their bikes checked at the dealer, since the bike was still under warranty. The dealer found the sensor was defective and replaced the kickstand sensor. 

 

Also, you may want to make sure the kickstand sensor wires look ok and make sure there is no dirt or gunk covering the sensor area. If there is dirt in the sensor area, clean the sensor area and see if the problem still happens. Good luck!

 

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Zephyr
2 hours ago, r1limited said:

I do not have a manual if someone can dig up the OHMS check for that switch and how to test.  Since you mention no diagnostice code I am equally unsure if or how to display any if recorded.  You said symptoms leading up, can you be more detailed, as to what transpired before and up to the engine shutting off.  For sure it is electrical, it can be a short as well someplace else, cold could be dampness or you may be seeing as mentioned a switch starting to faulter.

I did not receive any error codes on the instrument cluster (that I can recall).  Not sure if there's a "recall" function to bring up any error codes?  The initial occurrence was after riding for about an hour and was under sustained throttle input; 6th gear at about 70mph.  The last occurrence happened after shifting from second to third gear, under throttle acceleration, around 30mph.  Once the engine shut off, I pulled clutch and rev'd the throttle to listen for engine, no engine noise/tach rise on display which let me know that the engine had died, but all electrical remained.  Oil light turns on and bike would not restart until kill switch was cycled and bike put into neutral.  I did not need to lower and lift side stand to start engine.  The engine did not start immediately the first time this occurred although that could have been my mind freaking out and did not have the correct sequence to start.  The second occurrence I had no trouble coasting to the side of the road, placing in neutral, and restarting bike.

 

Edited by Zephyr

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r1limited
1 hour ago, Zephyr said:

Once the engine shut off, I pulled clutch and rev'd the throttle to listen for engine, no engine noise/tach rise on display which let me know that the engine had died, but all electrical remained.  Oil light turns on and bike would not restart until kill switch was cycled and bike put into neutral.  I did not need to lower and lift side stand to start engine.  The engine did not start immediately the first time this occurred although that could have been my mind freaking out and did not have the correct sequence to start.  The second occurrence I had no trouble coasting to the side of the road, placing in neutral, and restarting bike.

Keys!! You place in Neutral, neutral would possibly indicate a kick stand switch.  Possible kill switch just resets the circuit don't know, I do not have a wire schematic handy to view that connection.  IMO I would take the stand switch apart and clean it make sure the connectors are not corroded, wire brush em up and get some dyletric grease

Edited by r1limited
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Zephyr

Thanks for the help.  This is what my gut was telling me, but wanted to flesh it out so to speak before ordering a new switch or otherwise.  I'll see if I can take the switch assembly apart and clean / grease.  Otherwise I'll just order a new switch and apply grease when it arrives to ensure corrosion is not an issue.  I live in a wet moderate climate, so corrosion (and mold) are constant worries.

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norcal616

R1 made a good point, the key switch could have moved just enough to kill the power? possible the key lanyard jiggled the key just right to move it?? or key was not fully turned? 

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mick97702

I would also check the retention spring on the stand as well while inspecting the switch. If you hit a bump or pothole hard enough and the kickstand "jiggled" that would kill it as well. Look for debris lodged in the joint. This could prevent the kickstand from fully retracting and make the switch intermittent.

 

One time I also panicked when I turned my ignition switch "on" but the bike wouldn't start. I discovered that the keyswitch wasn't fully on. It was far enough to turn on the cluster and ECU but not allow it to start. 

 

 

Edited by mick97702
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markstertt

About 1000 miles ago mine did the same thing. Doing a coast ride, I took a badly pot holed pull off and after bouncing back out and just as I wound out 3rd gear and shifted to 4th the engine just went quiet. I whipped in the clutch and pulled over and just sat there trying to think. I was so surprised that I didn't follow a good diagnostic procedure but instead just popped the side stand up and down a few times and hit the starter, it fired up and on it went....straight towards home trying to leave spacing from traffic just in case. I wish I had checked the start/kill switch, the key position etc., I was to focused on the side stand and the pot holes but checking my side stand tension later, I doubt it was bouncing off it's stop and affecting the switch.  So I don't know but it's now always in the back of my mind.

 

I would like to eliminate the side stand switch if possible, clutch switch also for that matter, rode 30 years with out them although I will admit that I was forced off the road twice by side stands left down that didn't fold when leaning into left handers, once on my Kawi Z1 and once on my Honda CL77.

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r1limited

Removing the side stand switch is against federal and international law.  If you do this you will be fully prosecuted and punished by 20 spanish fly midgets looking like marc marquess and dani "I CANT WIN" padrosa singing and dancing to thriller

 

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markstertt
6 hours ago, r1limited said:

Removing the side stand switch is against federal and international law.  If you do this you will be fully prosecuted and punished by 20 spanish fly midgets looking like marc marquess and dani "I CANT WIN" padrosa singing and dancing to thriller

 

Darn, I knew there had to be a down side...but really, can the side stand switch be removed by jumpering? I thought someone on the forum said that we couldn't.

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Zephyr

Checked the side stand switch and spring for tension today.  Also checked to make sure that the clutch was operating the switch peg and the connection was secure.  All looked fine, so for now it will remain a mystery.  I will be more cognizant about the ignition key and inspecting the side stand switch regularly.  The inside of the switch looked brand new (as it should) and appeared to have light coat of oil? from the factory.  Now that I know the tools required for disassembly, then I may try and keep those on hand when riding with a bit of copper for jumpering if required.  I have been thinking of creating an emergency tool tube that would utilize the pillion peg screws for mounting.  I'm thinking that it would look "unobtrusive" in that location and be a permanent fixture on the bike.  This mystery may be the thing that's needed to force me to complete that side project.  Thanks for all of the suggestions and comments. 

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r1limited
11 hours ago, markstertt said:

Darn, I knew there had to be a down side...but really, can the side stand switch be removed by jumpering? I thought someone on the forum said that we couldn't.

All the side stand switch is is a open close kill switch.  It can be bypassed.  One of my winter projects is to build a plug and play adapter along with some other various wut nots.  Just ensure that the two ends are closed....

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markstertt
3 hours ago, r1limited said:

All the side stand switch is is a open close kill switch.  It can be bypassed.  One of my winter projects is to build a plug and play adapter along with some other various wut nots.  Just ensure that the two ends are closed....

That's what I've done with other bikes but when someone else on the forum mentioned this, (I think) the response was that you couldn't on the FZ-07. I guess I'll have to go out and pull the plug & ck it out, I know it's just an open/closed 2 wire switch.

 

I like your idea of making a jumper plug, I think I'll do this and just put a jumper plug in the tail boot and leave the switch, have to think about it though because if that engine quit suddenly in freeway traffic it could be deadly.

 

Zephyr, I like your tool tube idea, not much different than the look of the shock remote reservoir a lot of us have mounted on the left using those foot peg mount holes. What material are you considering?

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pjfz1
39 minutes ago, markstertt said:

That's what I've done with other bikes but when someone else on the forum mentioned this, (I think) the response was that you couldn't on the FZ-07. I guess I'll have to go out and pull the plug & ck it out, I know it's just an open/closed 2 wire switch.

 

 

I think you're correct .

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Zephyr
1 hour ago, markstertt said:

That's what I've done with other bikes but when someone else on the forum mentioned this, (I think) the response was that you couldn't on the FZ-07. I guess I'll have to go out and pull the plug & ck it out, I know it's just an open/closed 2 wire switch.

 

I like your idea of making a jumper plug, I think I'll do this and just put a jumper plug in the tail boot and leave the switch, have to think about it though because if that engine quit suddenly in freeway traffic it could be deadly.

 

Zephyr, I like your tool tube idea, not much different than the look of the shock remote reservoir a lot of us have mounted on the left using those foot peg mount holes. What material are you considering?

I was thinking of mocking up in pvc just to see what size i.d. tube would be required for the kit and what size I could get away with.  I would love to have a pill canister since they typically come with O-Rings, but they are generally way too small for what I anticipate needing.  I may have to get creative and look for a thin walled aluminum thermos to get the size required.  Whatever I end up with would have to meet the following requirements:

Weather tight

Dark Color to avoid drawing attention

Lockable a plus, but I could probably fab up something that would cover the top similar to the rear brake fluid reservoir that would serve the same purpose.

 

I could always have a tube for each side as that would allow for a smaller tube and still give sufficient storage space.  Got something laying around you'd like to donate for research purposes? 🙃

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markstertt

Nothing on hand but will think about it, I would probably weld up an aluminum canister, and an easy open/close top with a locking device would be paramount and definitely waterproof. I would probably look at map tubes, fishing rod tubes to see what's out there and if any look like a starting point...just for ideas...good luck, good idea. 

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norcal616

just remembered the FZ-07 has a tip over sensor...

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Zephyr
5 hours ago, markstertt said:

Nothing on hand but will think about it, I would probably weld up an aluminum canister, and an easy open/close top with a locking device would be paramount and definitely waterproof. I would probably look at map tubes, fishing rod tubes to see what's out there and if any look like a starting point...just for ideas...good luck, good idea. 

Apparently I'm not the first one to think of this as I've found multiple websites with the same concept.  All of them appear to use the tube linked below.  I will be checking local stores to see if I can find something similar, but if not then I'll order the small and large from this site:

 

http://www.agrisupply.com/manual-canister-large/p/67670/?sid=asf10&eid=Easf10&utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=MerchAdv&zmam=77232640&zmas=1&zmac=1&zmap=67670&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NB_PLA_Canisters_GOOG&utm_term=shopping&utm_content=sAYBRbF5E|pcrid|102508995671|pmt||pkw||pdv|m|&&gclid=Cj0KCQjw95vPBRDVARIsAKvPd3LlUrZam_JOoDZuMeJmXP4E_5p6BBLgtt2ITcAIridqDifBIlS-XOMaAg9eEALw_wcB

 

Emergency tool kit would probably be: 1/4" driver with assortment of screwdriver tips and metric sockets.  Leatherman Multi-tool.  Folding Hex key tool.  Assortment of cable ties.  Assorted heat shrink.  bic lighter.  electrical tape.  needle nose pliers.  1/4" socket wrench.  1/4" driver extension.  Adjustable wrench.  Couple of lengths of stranded copper wire in 2 or 3 gauges.  Spare fuses.  Shop rags to prevent tool rattling and some latex gloves.  I already carry an air pump and tire repair kit as well as the multi-tool and AAA flashlight.  I may change from the air pump and heavy duty tire repair to a smaller co2 kit and compact tire patch tool kit as the current setup makes the top case rather tight with the rain suit, jacket, and helmet stowed.  I'd also like to carry some rok straps if possible (don't currently own any).

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Zephyr
4 hours ago, norcal616 said:

just remembered the FZ-07 has a tip over sensor...

Yes, but the bike has to be essentially on it's side for that to kick in.  I was scrubbing the feelers on both sides all day when doing the MSF BR2 course and never had any issues.  The bike was also vertical when the shut-down occurred.  Good thinking though...

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markstertt

Good collection of tools, do you have a main stand? I would like to be able to raise the rear wheel for tire and chain maintenance when on the road but don't think I want to design a real main stand so I have an idea for a mono stand to convert the bike into a tripod, I must have seen it somewhere as that's a bit clever for me. First experiment revealed that the foot on the side stand needs reinforcing, it tends to fold where it meets the main tube...not good.

 

Good job on finding available waterproof canisters for tools, sure are cheap enough.

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Zephyr
2 hours ago, markstertt said:

Good collection of tools, do you have a main stand? I would like to be able to raise the rear wheel for tire and chain maintenance when on the road but don't think I want to design a real main stand so I have an idea for a mono stand to convert the bike into a tripod, I must have seen it somewhere as that's a bit clever for me. First experiment revealed that the foot on the side stand needs reinforcing, it tends to fold where it meets the main tube...not good.

 

Good job on finding available waterproof canisters for tools, sure are cheap enough.

I've installed the SW Motech center stand, since I knew I would use it a lot.  My bike stays on the center stand when at home and only uses the side stand when out and about.  I haven't found working on the bike too uncomfortable yet and the center stand really does make life easy in somewhat cramped spaces.  I am curious about the side stand reinforcing that you speak of.  I use the side stand every time I park to rotate the bike 180- degrees by pivoting the bike up onto the side stand and rotating with the bike balanced on the foot of the side stand.  This gives me pause about continuing that practice.

I will use the "emergency tool kit" as an excuse to fill in some of the gaps in the tool list as I don't have all of the tools that I mentioned.  It's kind of a "wish list" so to speak and also a "sounding board" in case others here would recommend additions or substitutions.  I ordered the storage tubes today, so I'll try and do a thread on the kit once I have it sorted out.  The tubes may be cheap, but shipping a large tube and small tube to Hawaii was a little over 20 bucks. 😨  I did read in other moto threads on the interwebs that continental US shipping was quite a bit cheaper and if you live close to one of the storefronts, then you could save much more by picking them up in person.  I read that these are some sort of John Deere factory replacemt item, so you may get lucky if you have a well outfitted farm supply store in your area.

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