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iluvspdtt

100 Octane

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iluvspdtt

Does anyone happen to have a tune for 100 octane gas? A gas station in my area that I normally get my fuel from has recently started selling Sunoco 100 octane fuel and I would like to run it but I know that without tuning the bike for it I won't see any real performance gain. If anyone has a tune for this or any advice on where to find one please let me know.

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blackout

If it was me, I would take the bike to a dyno and have them adjust fuel and timing for the 100 octane fuel.  Then you would know what gains you get from the more expensive fuel.

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r1limited

100 Octain is useless in a modern bike.  Blackout is correct, although it would take more than a ECO change to gain the full bennies of 100 fuel.  Higher compression, CAM, Flow would all encompass getting 100 performance.  Just find Pain ol 92 No Ethinol GAS and reep the rewards

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pjfz1

You really would need to custom tune it on a dyno for the most gain, and it wouldn't be much if any at all, Your Cam timing and compression can't be changed without major expense, so you'd really just be playing with ignition advance, and getting a small gain.

 

  If you go that route - You should try it with 87, 93, and 100, and post your results for the world. there's a valuable lesson to be learned for riders, and money to be saved in running higher octane all the time.

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blackout
On 10/6/2017 at 5:02 PM, iluvspdtt said:

Does anyone happen to have a tune for 100 octane gas? A gas station in my area that I normally get my fuel from has recently started selling Sunoco 100 octane fuel and I would like to run it but I know that without tuning the bike for it I won't see any real performance gain. If anyone has a tune for this or any advice on where to find one please let me know.

And if you are in or near Ohio, get with J D Hord of Hordpower!  I bet he has played with higher octane with his piston/head/cam mods.

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mossrider
On Friday, October 06, 2017 at 9:02 PM, iluvspdtt said:

Does anyone happen to have a tune for 100 octane gas? A gas station in my area that I normally get my fuel from has recently started selling Sunoco 100 octane fuel and I would like to run it but I know that without tuning the bike for it I won't see any real performance gain. If anyone has a tune for this or any advice on where to find one please let me know.

Where to begin...

     Sunoco 100 (much like VP 100) is a street legal unleaded fuel designed for use in performance engines both on the street and race track. On the street any real gains will be modest, if any, in your stock or near stock Yamaha. In turbos or compression/cam modified motors you would see slightly better results. It does burn cleaner than regular pump fuel and smells RIGHTEOUS tho. As stated elsewhere in this thread you would need to build a map on a dyno using EGA equipment to reap it's full potential. Properly set up for the fuel your drivability would be spectacular with these fuels as would regular pump fuel for that matter. (folks here report wonderful results with proper dyno work,  'flashes' or Power Commanders, or both)

    Having said this, I have spent much time and money fooling with this motor in an attempt to go fasterish. See thread entitled "Off season madness" under Track tab. My buddy owns a speed/suspension shop and we fooled with this thing ad nauseum trying to improve on Yamaha's engineering without leaving my racing class restrictions, or Supersport (basically stock street bike requiring retention of stock airbox) We've done probably 2 dozen runs in every conceivable configuration trying to find the 'secret' I have added R6 slotted cam adjusters to my decked head (raised compression) and still failed to find any benefit over pump gas. Sad, but true. We ran airbox cover on/off, filter in/out, snorkels in/out, snorkels short/long, more timing/less, and more significantly we tried it all over again with VP U4.4, a step up over Sun100/VP100 fuel, to see if there was a benefit here either. Not. 

    So, is it worth it? Maybe, that's up to you. I post this not as a definitive assay of the value of race fuel but merely for information. I will not argue these findings with anyone.  I was simply tired of everyone's unsupported opinions at the race track and on forums and stories of 'I heard' or 'so and so said', 'my buddy...' you get the idea☺ 

    I found out, as have others such as J.D. Hord, that in order to make power this motor needs help. Read cams, porting, intake, fueling, exhaust, etc. And make power it will with some making high 80's on regular pump gas and +100 on race fuel! As is you're stuck at around 75 horse power, IF YOU TUNE, otherwise it's about 73. Splitting hairs but those are the numbers keeping in mind that dyno's differ blah blah.

    So yes, Sunoco 100 would be nice but be ready to open your motor and wallet to make use of it. 

 

FUN AIN'T IT!

 

I hope this helps or even makes sense.

Dave

Edited by mossrider
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r1limited

Beanos work

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gregjet

Mossrider points out that the bike will need cams ( more aggressive ) to get better power and you can see that from the torque curves. Even opened up as fuilly as possible ( and Hord tried) the torque curve starts dropping off at quite low revs ( depending on a heap of factors). By the time you are at 10000 you need to be in another gear. That says " I have cams designed for lower revs" ...mostly. Except in the case of the Aussie LAMS version, where it said " I have a roadblock in the inlets".  The motor was designed for midrange. And designed for midrange VERY well it was. I suspect that is one of the reasons we all like riding it as much as we do.

 

A little fuel based story from a guy racing a 650 Hyosung a few years ago. In a reasonably restrictive but not overly so class. Now don't laugh becuase the Hyo's engines are actually designed by Hyabusha Engineering. They may have reliability issues but the motors are good ( and the bikes bloody heavy...and the wheels even heavier).

The team had been racing on pump gas to start with. Doing OK actually. They made a few legal changes and switched to 100+ fuel. The bike would not run properly at wide open high speed and people they had been passing were now passing them. After a couple of races tearing their hair out, were at a race and forgot to bring enough fuel. After the first frustrating race they borrowed some fuel from someone else. All of a sudden the bike came to life again. When they asked what the fuel was , it turned out to be the pump premium . Lesson learned. Hyabusha had specifically designed the heads to be optimium at the low-medium burn activation energy. Higher octane is NOT better unless the engine is made and tuned  for it, nor is lower than designed for.

 

A few years ago I personally got caught when BP changed it's 98 RON to be optimized for turbo and supercharged motors. My racing VTR250 began running like crap. Changed back to 95(RON) and all was well with the world again. I believe they have changed it to be more useful in NA motors again.

 

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iluvspdtt

Thanks for all the great info guys. I wasn't expecting huge gains or anything but being in California it sure doesn't hurt running fuel without ethanol in it every once in awhile. I know the zx7r that I'm building will be in a strict diet of race gas but that is for a couple reasons, the engine will be tuned and built for it and the bike will spend a decent amount of time in the museum at work and ethanol does too much damage to the fuel system when it sits. 

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