Airbox removal, install dual pod filters

[bashlock 3]

I removed the stock airbox completely and am running two cheap pod filters on the throttle body. After reading mixed reviews, I was worried the stock ecu setup wouldn’t take it well. 

 

HOWEVER, I am glad to say it runs great. Much more mid power and sounds beastly. 

 

 

[cyow5 85]

Cool! The TBs have a MAP sensor installed, so I'd expect the ECU to be able to perfectly compensate for the extra airflow. I know many claim it doesn't, so it would be great to see evidence one way or the other. 

[r1limited 1,662]

I am curious as to the weight of the entire air box

[c0al67 122]

Even if performance was otherwise the same, and the weight loss of the stock box was negligible, I still think this looks awesome. It looks so clean with the space under the seat like that. 

[digitalsteve 62]

It'd be interesting to know what, if any, performance benefit this gave.

[r1limited 1,662]

From a weight loss perspective even a 1/2 lb makes a difference, as the location is also a factor.  Performance wise, always good to let a motor breath, air is just one item on the list in a much larger picture

[sansnombre 149]

I would love to see this on a dyno - consider it, as I'm sure we all would get some use out of the info.

 

My understanding is that the Hord box has stacks inside the filter, and the individual pods do not. When Hord was doing the testing of the bike, he commented about the extreme sensitivity of our bike to intake runner length, and you basically have none. Compared to Hord, I think you will be short on power everywhere. Compared to stock, I think you'll likely see a loss in most places with the possible exception of high-end. IMHO.

 

Many of us forget it's tuning the flow, not just opening it up. There is some potential gain to opening it up, but I've seen it many times that power is actually reduced because of this tuning requirement of intake/exhaust performance if it is not done carefully, or at least on an objective measure of result. Not to mention dialing in the components to an AFR with a dyno (or reflash to a known kit) - I think you'll be much happier with a Hord-based reflash than what you currently have.

 

My guess is it's not doing what you think it is, but could be much better with dyno tuning, but I applaud your effort.

 

Cheers

[cyow5 85]

I disagree with your pessimism - tuning length is measured from the intake valve seat to, in this case, the base of the filter. That still gives a substantial length, so it is very likely the new powerband is still very usable. Also, he removed a number of restrictions that help as well. Lastly, the ECU should see playing with the intake like this in the form of increased MAP, and it will add fuel accordingly. A tune can still help, but even without one, one can see additionally fuel being added. 

[r1limited 1,662]

I think the probability of unincumbered air flatulance in direct corrolation of comparable matrix of solidification effect will decress the over all surface ratio of effectual circumfrance tilt

[cyow5 85]

5 minutes ago, r1limited said:

I think the probability of unincumbered air flatulance in direct corrolation of comparable matrix of solidification effect will decress the over all surface ratio of effectual circumfrance tilt

Only on Tuesdays 

[hordboy 164]

I tested foam Uni pods first thing when I embarked on my airbox project.  They do give a gain, but it's all at the top.  And, you'll definitely have to re-map or flash for them, the stock ECU will not auto-compensate.  That only happens, basically, when you see the ECO mode on your dash.

[cyow5 85]

34 minutes ago, hordboy said:

I tested foam Uni pods first thing when I embarked on my airbox project.  They do give a gain, but it's all at the top.  And, you'll definitely have to re-map or flash for them, the stock ECU will not auto-compensate.  That only happens, basically, when you see the ECO mode on your dash.

You've obviously got experience in this area, so I'd like to pick your brain. Why doesn't the MAP sensor increase fueling? I expect the O2 sensor to be open loop at WOT, but the MAP sensor should register a higher pressure when increasing the intake airflow potential, and therefore fueling should still compensate, even open loop. This doesn't apply to alpha/n controllers though, so does the FZ rely more heavily on the TPS than the MAP for WOT fueling? 

[norcal616 968]

the O2 sensor is only used during

"EcoMode" range since its closed loop...anything outside EcoMode is all done by TPS and RPM and the preset fueling values which do not change unless modified via tuning of ECU...

 

 

[cyow5 85]

2 hours ago, norcal616 said:

the O2 sensor is only used during

"EcoMode" range since its closed loop...anything outside EcoMode is all done by TPS and RPM and the preset fueling values which do not change unless modified via tuning of ECU...

 

 

What you are describing is an alpha/n system. Those do not require a MAP sensor, but can use one optionally to augment the fueling. Since our bikes have a MAP sensor, it is possible but unlikely the MAP sensor is not being used. A speed/density system, which uses rpm and MAP as the main table, would automatically adjust to increased intake pressure due to intake tuning and/or removing a restriction unless the variation is huge or restricted for some reason in the code. Speed/density system also require a TPS for safety and for low load since the MAP sensor is going to be noisy there. 

 

This is all regardless of going closed-loop in "eco mode" which just uses whichever system as a pre-control and then applies some correction factors

[bashlock 3]

On 10/4/2017 at 7:46 PM, digitalsteve said:

It'd be interesting to know what, if any, performance benefit this gave.

 

[bashlock 3]

Living in Los Angeles, stock tuning works with this setup. 

The sound is awesome, and definitely mid and high end gains. Low end torque is still as great as it was stock. 

 

I will be adding an akra full exhaust, and eventually a tune and dyno. 

 

For now, extremely happy with this. 

 

Also, it’s easy to remove the airbox if you drop the motor a bit. You can leave the bottom rear mount on and just let the motor rest on a jack. Or cut it out as I’ve seen. 

 

Please argue elsewhere! Thanks

 

if anyone’s curious, I have removed a ton of stuff.  

- rear brake fluid bracket

- airbox

- lower front fairings

- radiator side covers

- decals

 

I am in the process of making a better placement for the ecu. There’s a big gap behind it and I want to tuck as much as I can

 

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by bashlock

[bashlock 3]

On 10/4/2017 at 4:55 PM, r1limited said:

I am curious as to the weight of the entire air box

I don’t have a scale but I’m estimating 2-3lbs. 

[mick97702 101]

I like the look. Where did you find them? Do you have a link?

[digitalsteve 62]

10 hours ago, bashlock said:

Please argue elsewhere! Thanks

 

 

 

Sorry, that's not how forums work.

[bashlock 3]

4 hours ago, mick97702 said:

I like the look. Where did you find them? Do you have a link?

They are just cheap universal filters from

ebay. I used the factory clamps

[bashlock 3]

Update

 

finally went for a day ride, burned through an entire tank of gas.

 

averaged 41 miles per gallon

 

the bike is dumping fuel, but runs fine. 

 

Exhaust and power commander to come.

[cyow5 85]

2 hours ago, bashlock said:

Update

 

finally went for a day ride, burned through an entire tank of gas.

 

averaged 41 miles per gallon

 

the bike is dumping fuel, but runs fine. 

 

Exhaust and power commander to come.

That's interesting. The common knowledge seems to expect it to go lean if you are increasing the airflow without a tune, not rich. You clearly picked up power as you stated on the previous page, so you surely didn't reduce airflow. It sounds like I was right that the manifold air pressure sensor is compensating, just too much. Can't think of a different explanation. 

[norcal616 968]

Have fun tuning the bike... I suspect them little pod filters give a small little mid range bump but peformance suffers more as the rpms climb... 

 

keep the ECU in stock OEM fueling since the PCV will try to "lean out" the deceleration injection when they normally get turned back on when you get your ECU reflashed if you use the AutoTuner... 

 

I also hooked up a wire to allow me to "per gear mapping"

 

I would also recommend the AutoTuner or something similar to help you tune the bike or have a dyno shop do it... 

[gregjet 960]

Just a note on inlet length tuning.

 First a tuned length only works at the rpm for which that length is designed ( and it's harmonics) and with the throttle butterflies out of the way ( ie mostly open). Once you partially close the butterflies they will stuff up the pressure wave.

From a mass loading perspective, the longer the more cramming in but the slower the change response .Again works best ( if it is after the throttle butterflies, at mostly open throttles).

The stock airbox has reasonably well designed flared stacks to help reduced harmonic problems at their ends but these pods will act in a completely different and damped way so the usual blowback problems SHOULDN't exist ( you never know for sure with air flow).

If Hord disagrees or corrects anything preceeding , listen to him. He has the real data.

I would like to know if Hord thinks it's a good idea ( I know , he knows his design is better. He put enough good research into it) as opposed to the stock steup. I would be willing to give itr a try with some mods ( and quality filters), for a number of reasons.

[Ryan O'Keefe 0]

On 17/10/2017 at 1:49 AM, cyow5 said:

That's interesting. The common knowledge seems to expect it to go lean if you are increasing the airflow without a tune, not rich. You clearly picked up power as you stated on the previous page, so you surely didn't reduce airflow. It sounds like I was right that the manifold air pressure sensor is compensating, just too much. Can't think of a different explanation. 

Just browsing the web doing a little research and came across this thread. The majority of your posts are very assuming of what these bikes have on board.

 

The sensors are narrow band (not wide band expensive fokers) and the feedback they give is really only going to help with things like altitude changes. They definitely aren't going to adapt to every single change.