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br4nd0n

Help with clutch lever!

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br4nd0n

Well, like most things I've tried to do on my motorcycle, I screwed up the clutch engagement / disengagement when I tried to install a new clutch lever and perch. I'm at a real loss as to how to fix it even after looking at the manual and online. Please can someone help me!?

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r1limited

Start by backing out all the adjusters Lever is all the way in, At the clutch as well

 

The adjust the clutch end to bring out the slack adjusting the throw.  Once you have this where you want (Mainly not causing the cable end to slip out of its cradle then adjust the level to feel.  This is were you will play between adjusting a little at a time to get get the clutch engagement you want.  Bring the level were you have about 1.4 inch before the cable is pulling the clutch arm.  You may have to adjust at the clutch arm to get the lever were you want it to engage.

 

Testing engagement

Straddle the bike

Engage Front Brake (PRECAUTION IN CASE YOU DID NOT DO THE ABOVE RIGHT)

Pull in Clucth

Put in gear

slowly let clutch out until you feel the clutch start to grab

Adjust accordingly

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br4nd0n

I think I'm way beyond the point where slight adjustments will work and maybe I need to mess with the arm on the clutch case. Let me know what you think based on the description below.

 

I took a look at the the little arm on the top of the clutch casing before doing the switch. With the stock lever all the way out, the little arm was sitting horizontally at 3 o'clock and when pulled all the way in, it rotated slightly counter clockwise towards the front of the bike somewhere around 2 o'clock. With the new clutch lever and perch, the resting position of the arm is around 4 o'clock and best I can get it to move, is back to 3 o'clock.

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r1limited

It does not matter a 3 oclpck or whatever position, get that out of your head.  If I understand the issue your actuator arm at the cases are wrong, if that is not the case then you put someting together wrong inside the clutch case

 

If not What I am telling you now to get this back into place is as follows

 

  1. loosen the entire cable structure by
    1. At the bar lever screw in the adjuster all the way until you cannot screw it in any further
    2. At the Clutch arm (Push Lever) Cable See A in Image Below ** In my feel I backed the cable out to the end to give me the play and engagement I want at the clutch lever which is early engagement **
  2. At the Clutch Push Leve (Engine Case) this should be in and or about the same location as you see in the image B
  3. At that point you can manually with yur hand pus the lever forward which will more than likely be at a 90 degree with the Engine Side Case.
  4. Adjust that push lever on its spindal without the cabel on it to be at a point of 90 degress (OR JUST SLIGHT of 90) with the case.
  5. At this point the lever is pushng against the clutch and you should not be able to lever it further by hand.
  6. Button up the Actuator arm
  7. Put the cable end back on
  8. Adjust first A in the image to bring up the slack of the inner cable itself
  9. Then bring up the adjuster at the clutch hand lever to feef

 

NOTE, adjust at the Case level will cause the effect of late or early engagment at the hand lever, so playing with these two is your personal feel always leave at min 3/16 - 1/4 play in the lever swinging bars to lock left to right.

ClutchLeve07r.jpg

Edited by r1limited

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br4nd0n

OK, I think I understand some. I'll go out in a little while and mess with it and take some pictures if I still have issues. Thanks for trying to help me out, I know I'm not the best at understanding things all of the time.

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r1limited

It is a matter of proper alignment when you put that lever back on the clutch case.  For future refeence I use nail polish when removing items like this.  I just make a thin mark across it so when you put it back on there ya go a fin tip magic marker works as well.

best of luck, its all about learning, working on the bike is 49% of the fun the other 51% is majorityof fun :)

 

 

Edited by r1limited

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rick
15 hours ago, br4nd0n said:

I think I'm way beyond the point where slight adjustments will work and maybe I need to mess with the arm on the clutch case. Let me know what you think based on the description below.

 

I took a look at the the little arm on the top of the clutch casing before doing the switch. With the stock lever all the way out, the little arm was sitting horizontally at 3 o'clock and when pulled all the way in, it rotated slightly counter clockwise towards the front of the bike somewhere around 2 o'clock. With the new clutch lever and perch, the resting position of the arm is around 4 o'clock and best I can get it to move, is back to 3 o'clock.

Counterclockwise? hmm, looking down on that lever, as the hand lever is pulled, the lever on the case will turn towards the front and clockwise in my universe. 

 

Don't mess with that lever at the case - there's just no real reason. You can adjust the free play in the cable from either end of the cable - just don't wind up with only a few threads in the barrels of either adjuster. When it's correct, the lever at the case will wind up in the spot in R1limited's pict and you'll have some play with the lever out. 

 

I believe the owners manual describes the amount of play and where to measure it. 

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br4nd0n

Yeah, my bad I reversed it in my head when I was posting it. I'll edit it as to not confuse others.

 

EDIT: Guess I cannot edit something that is old... that's kind of strange

Edited by br4nd0n

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br4nd0n

OK, so I was able to get it to disengage and go into first without lurching and stalling, but I'm not sure if it is fully disengaging. When is full disengagement? How much further past the point of where it starts to engage enough to slightly move the bike? Is it actually fully disengaged when the bike doesn't move in first or is there still possibly a little slippage that can wear the clutch out? Sorry if these questions seems stupid, but I'm nowhere near experienced enough to know this stuff.

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rick

Go to your owner's manual and turn to page 7-19 and read

 

You should easily be able to feel the difference between pulling that clutch lever against the return spring (that coil spring visible on the lever at the case) vs. pulling the clutch pack apart. The springs inside the clutch are much stiffer. 

 

So, a light pull for that specified 5-10mm out at the end of the clutch hand lever and then you should feel the pull get immediately much harder. This is what we're calling free play. With this adjusted properly, when the hand lever is full out, the clutch pack will be closed and the clutch is completely disengaged ( an engage clutch disengages the motor from the tranny - so pulling in the lever engages the clutch and letting that lever out until the bike is driven is disengaged) At that point, there's no slip and it's gonna stall if you come to a stop w/o pulling shelver in. 

 

BTW, it's hard to wear out one of these clutches and there are no stupid questions. 

 

 

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rick

this is from the service manual, but it's pretty much the same. You'll only need to mess with the adjuster at the case if there's not enough room at the handlebar

 

Screen Shot 2017-10-01 at 9.24.21 PM.png

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r1limited

You will know if the clutch is still not engaged or improperly adjusted if you ride the bike.  Shifting you will either have a steady linear feel to power and Noise of the engine or if the clutch is not properly engaged meaning still not engaged the engine will rev higher and faster this is unmistakable when hearing a slipping clutch and feel

 

NOT ENGAGED means the clutch is slipping, this means the cables are to tight or the lever is not backing off enough to allow the clutch to be fully engaged (My Definition)

 

If you are not stalling the bike when placing it in gear or feeling the bike move or a dragging feeling the clutch is properly adjusted.  If you are blipping the throttle and feel the bike want to move or at idle and the bike feels like it wants to move with the clutch in, you will adjust the Engine case end of the cable

 

The lever is for feel, you will adjust this let the clutch start to grab sooner or later (Later is further out as the handle is released sooner is when the lever leaves the bar

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br4nd0n

Thanks guys, I'll have to mess with it some more to make sure I have it where it should be.

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br4nd0n

OK, I had some time today to go down and try to adjust the cable some more. My question is, will there be any lever arm movement, engine case side, for "free play"? In order for me to feel as though I'm getting enough clutch disengagement, the lever arm on the case still moves slightly when I try to give it a little slack. If I give it too much I don't think the clutch is fully disengaging.

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mossrider

It's common for people to think 'more is better' when attempting to understand clutch function.

 

Imagine, if you will, a deck of playing cards. If I set the deck atop a table and tap them from the side they will easily slide over one another all overy the table. Now, if I sit my empty coffee cup on top the deck and tap the side of the cards they will not move.

 

That's how little pressure and movement there need be to control the clutch pack, which is essentially a deck of cards that rotate within the engine case and control the power output from engine to tranmission. The clutch springs act as if you were to pinch the deck between your fingers to control slippage.

 

Over simplified but you get the idea. Less is good. If the vehicle does not move when clutch lever is pulled it is disengaged. A tenth of a millimeter and a couple pounds of pressure and off you go.

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rick
15 hours ago, br4nd0n said:

. My question is, will there be any lever arm movement, engine case side, for "free play"?

Simple answer - Yes.

 

If you unwind the adjuster to the point that the hand lever moves w/o the lever at the case moving, the hand lever will never return fully home outward and will rattle as you ride - very annoying and you probably won't have enough lever travel left to open the clutch pack. That "freeplay" should  still have the return spring (that coil spring on the lower lever) pressure applied to the hand lever. After that specified freeplay is taken up, you are now working against the big springs inside the clutch (coffee cup in moss rider's nice example, usually 4 very stiff coil springs inside the clutch in real life) to allow the disks to separate. 

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rick

went out to the garage with ruler in hand. I'm still using the OE hand lever and have my freeplay is adjusted pretty close to what the manual calls for. I actually prefer having the clutch engagement point well out from the bar so as to keep both of my bikes feeling relatively similar (even though there's nothing at all similar between the 2 clutches, motors, FI etc.) . 

 

with one finger on the hand lever, I pulled until the spring pressure changed and measured that distance at the lever on the case. Measuring right where the cable goes into that rectangular bit, the lever moved 2mm. That's what we're calling freeplay. Down there, it's not much, but plenty enough to allow that deck of cards to be stuck together. 

 

From that point, I then measured how far the lever moved with the bar lever pulled all the way back to the bar. That distance was 13mm. So that translates to the lever on the case having 15mm of total travel - have no idea how far the clutch pack is actually pushed opened, but it's likely only a millimeter or maybe 2. Clearly, the hand lever moves thru a much bigger arc, but that's how your hand has leverage over those stiff clutch springs. 

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br4nd0n

Thanks for the measurements, that is helpful. 👍

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