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Oil consumption?


shinyribs

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7 hours ago, r1limited said:

Sorry but you do not loose 1/2 quart for no reason.  if you see absolutly no oil leaks blow by or oil dripping from crancase hoses, then only two things are plausible

1: Your burning oil and have blown or  cracked a ring or based on what you stated on how you run / break in a motor "blown, cracked or a non seated rings

2: you are mistaken on the amount of oil you placed in it the last oil change.

 

Since there is only one dry area on the maotr being the stator side (Left) I would pull the straight screw plug off that case tilt it over to see if oil is in that case.  If it is you blew a crank seal

 

personally I would change that rotella crap to Amsoil metric 10-40  Just for one oil cycle and replace the filter with a OEM yamaha

I would also pull both plugs and take a very close read on them, if you are blowing oil through the rings you will see it in the plugs

I completely agree that you do not lose 1/2 a quart of oil for no reason,which is why I asked about other's experience with these particular motors during break-in, and why I also talked to the service manager like I mentioned earlier. 

 

I don't share your opinion of "rotella crap", but that's ok. It served me well through many, many years of drag racing. Most notably, my last door slammer which had an honest 1,000hp 500 cu.in. BBC running strictly on pump gas. It takes a lot of strain to milk 1,000 hp out of a 500 cu.in. pump gas motor, and a lot of rpms. Over 400 passes on that motor for an entire season ( 7k rpm shift point) with no oil changes and zero failures- Blackstone Labs analyzed the oil and found no alarming levels of ...anything. That motor got sold to a man who now uses it for street driving. He still uses Rotella ( he asked me what I'd been using) and that has been about 4 years ago now. Rotella may not be "motorcycle oil", but I've never experienced any failures with it. 

 

Regardless, the bike does currently have motorcycle specific oil ( GN4) and a Yamaha branded filter ( who knows who builds those...) as mentioned earlier. 

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Thats great, but you lost 1/2 quart of oil and its unexplained so either that oil is crap or you burning oil because your breakin blew a seal, rings or that rotella crap did not seat them very well or it is in the side case either or since you can build a 1000 HP motor find a oil consumption issue shoudl be childs play

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria

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have you looked in the airbox? check the stator side like R1 mentioned? or Im gonna throw this out this there, kinda weird to think this but any oil in the coolant system? 

 

im trying to think of were the oil could go if its not dripping out, or being burned up or going into the airbox...

2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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13 minutes ago, r1limited said:

Thats great, but you lost 1/2 quart of oil and its unexplained so either that oil is crap or you burning oil because your breakin blew a seal, rings or that rotella crap did not seat them very well or it is in the side case either or since you can build a 1000 HP motor find a oil consumption issue shoudl be childs play

Are you saying that "cheap" oil just disappears? Sorry, just not understanding your train of logic. If someone uses a brand of oil that YOU don't like...then it will just....leave the engine? Help me understand.

 

If the Rotella would be responsible for not allowing the rings to seat, wouldn't that be a sign of extreme lubricity? Isn't lubricity oil's job? 

 

And yes, I could split the cases and see what's up, but I don't see that being to next logical move. 

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14 minutes ago, norcal616 said:

have you looked in the airbox? check the stator side like R1 mentioned? or Im gonna throw this out this there, kinda weird to think this but any oil in the coolant system? 

 

im trying to think of were the oil could go if its not dripping out, or being burned up or going into the airbox...

I did check in the airbox- it was clean. 

 

Have not pulled the stator cover. Did not know these bikes had dry stators. They don't use oil to cool the stator? What cools the stator?

 

Coolant is also clean. Thanks for the ideas. 

 

 

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#shinyribs

You missed my point, I never said split the case I said and I quote
 

Quote

Since there is only one dry area on the maotr being the stator side (Left) I would pull the straight screw plug off that case tilt it over to see if oil is in that case.  If it is you blew a crank seal

That said this means the only dry area on the FZ motor is the Left Side Stator case, you can pull that Big Ol Center Thingy out, lean the bike over to see if 1/2 quart is spilling out or any oil. 

 

Lets look at the facts

  1. You say you have 1/2 quart less from your last oil change
  2. You say you have no inidcation it is:
    1. Leaking from any location
    2. Dripping from any Vent Hose
    3. No visual signs of any type
    4. yet 1/2 quart is missing?

This leads me to specualte and wonder

  1. Are you mistaken in the oil capacity
  2. Did you underfil
  3. Did you not take into consideration the trivial amount in the oil filter (Unless your using a huge ol diesal filter system) Long shot yes :)
  4. Reading back at your methodology of engine breakin as well as using a non motorcycle specific oil cause:
    1. The rings to not seat properly
    2. You broke a ring during your break in
    3. You have a factory defective motor (that is possible)

Further in my limited knowledge of Oil even though I sold it for a while causing me to actually read and educate myself on specifics using myriads of different OEMs and blends, as well as building my own race bikes, doing my own porting polishing, crank stuffing nothing like your 1000 HP engines I grant you, but being very anal in what I put in my bikes, how I break them in and how I measure to the CC the oil I place in said bikes I find it hard to understand:

  1. The commonilaty is
    1. Oil
    2. Break in
    3. Magically disapearing oil

This leads me to conclude

  1. You broke or blew something
  2. Your mistaken on the oil amount
  3. The engine did not seat right
  4. The full story is yet to be told
  5. All of this doesnt matter because one day an astaroid is gonna hit and or Kim Jung Nutcase is going to toss a nuke and all the bernie sanders nincompoopers are goona get pissed cus that freeshot tree dies of radiation

I dunno nuttin more than that

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria

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umm..... All I know is my bike was a 1/2 qt low. And I was curious if anyone else had that happen during break-in. Apparently not, so now I proceed accordingly. 

 

I do happen to actually understand how to check my oil, and how to measure how much of something I pour in to something else. It's really easy. My Granny does that while cooking all the time. 

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My bike never noticeably consumed oil (with some oil change intervals admittedly and embarassingly hitting the 8-9000 mile mark) up until I hit around 50,000 miles. It doesn't seem to burn much oil now either, but it definitely has started using a little bit. I use mobil1 full synthetic, generally. 

Published 'Chronicles of a Motorcycle Gypsy' a book about my travels on the FZ, and a writer for Motorcyclist Magazine

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Never had this issue, but then again, my 600 mile oil changes usually are within the first 3 weeks. Not enough time to be losing anything.

From 2k to 5-6k miles my oil glass showed from full to about 3/4 of the glass full (I didn't lose 1/4th of my oil, I just lost 1/4th of the looking glass on oil, so it probably translates into a few oz of oil, in 4k miles).

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On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 11:06 PM, shinyribs said:

I did check in the airbox- it was clean. 

 

Have not pulled the stator cover. Did not know these bikes had dry stators. They don't use oil to cool the stator? What cools the stator?

 

Coolant is also clean. Thanks for the ideas. 

 

 

Pretty sure it's wet since that's where we all pour our oil on fill up, unless that filler hole is magic ...don't know about others but I bet mine and yours is wet.

 

If your engine is burning that much oil, you might be able to tell from the burnt oil smell at the exhaust outlet or maybe even an oil film so stick your finger in the exhaust and get your nose down there. If it isn't obvious here and there are no leaks, then I'd probably put the bike on a paddock stand and fill right to the line or your known point (filter already filled from running) then I'd ride it and after each ride, put it on the stand and after it's had time to drain down from the top end etc., check the level. It must have time to return to the sump so no rush here if you want to be accurate. Good luck and first make absolutely sure that oil is disappearing before doing anything else.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/26/2017 at 8:55 PM, shinyribs said:

It was 15w40 conventional Rotella. 

Specifically was this the older Rotella T 15w40  or the new version Rotella T4 15w40?   

There is also a T5 15w40 but is semi-synth I think.

If it was T4, was it the newer CK-4 or older CJ-4 spec? 

That oil should not shear to the point of being watery after only a few hundred miles as far as I know.  The Rotella T6, on the other hand,  is reported to shear pretty badly in our wet-clutch bikes (see bob-is-the-oil-guy forums).  Perhaps you are getting fuel in the oil. 

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On 10/20/2017 at 1:33 PM, rjg said:

Specifically was this the older Rotella T 15w40  or the new version Rotella T4 15w40?   

There is also a T5 15w40 but is semi-synth I think.

If it was T4, was it the newer CK-4 or older CJ-4 spec? 

That oil should not shear to the point of being watery after only a few hundred miles as far as I know.  The Rotella T6, on the other hand,  is reported to shear pretty badly in our wet-clutch bikes (see bob-is-the-oil-guy forums).  Perhaps you are getting fuel in the oil. 

No T6 or semi syn, it was just their conventional oil. Do they call that T4?....I don't know lol 

 

I haven't ridden this bike much lately for various reason ( which sucks), so I've only rode about 600 miles or so since my last oil change ( Honda GN4) and the bike hasn't used a drop of oil. Fingers crossed...

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The T4 is full synth 5-40. The regular Rotella is 15-40. Ran T4 for years in my KTM with no issues. Switched to motorex like manual recommends and noticed no change other than it costs twice as much.

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I was wrong in the mileage. I'm a little over 2,200 miles now, so just shy of 1,000 miles on the current batch of oil. 

 

I guess I could mention that's there's been absolutely no loss of power at all. Actually, it seems to be running even better. I was out goofing around in the mountains last weekend and the front tire lifted in 4th gear. That was new and unexpected, so perhaps it is just an issue with rings seating slowly.

 

Or maybe the FZ really runs good with an Arrow exhaust and a stock ECU ;)

 

Fuel mileage has increased from low to mid 40's to consistently showing 52-54 mpg on the Ave mpg readout. I haven't done any fuel mileage math myself, just going by what the bike is saying. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just to follow up, the bike has used no oil over the past 2800 or so miles. I sent a sample of oil to Blackstone Labs and the analysis came back with flying colors. Lower metals content than their recorded averages all the way across the board, and only trace amounts of fuel and water- so the rings are seated nicely. They even commented in a note how low the trace amount of fuel was.  Good job Yamaha!

 

I still have no clue what happened originally, but all seems to be well now.

 

I searched and found no threads, but I'm curious if other people have oil analysis' done on here?

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Smell, visual and taste.  Old School

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria

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  • 3 weeks later...

I switched all my toys over years ago to rotella  oils with no problems or oil usage of any kind. Used rotella  t 15w 40 for the first change in the little FZ, then the t6 after that, and for all my other bikes that can use “Jason ma” rated synthetic oil ( for wet clutch ).

 

It’s not the oil. Smart of you to make sure and document it to the dealership, hope you get it figured out.

'16 Yamaha FZ-07, '15 Yamaha FZ-09

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