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norcal616

FZ-07 vs FJ-09

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norcal616
This is my personal opinion/views/observed general complainants from owning currently both a FZ-07 and a FJ-09.. for reference im 6'1" @ 155# in my birthday suit, 175-180# suited up...
- this way ppl can search forever instead of sending me messages 
- will edit over time as I remember stuff 
- link to same thread in FJ-09 forum https://fj-09.org/thread/5700/fj-09-fz-07?page=1&scrollTo=65676
 
FZ-07(2015 bike)-70wrhp
 
Pros: 
-385# bike (stripped down)
-Instant TQ from any rev point
-Super nimble
-Awesome city bike
-Hardly any worry about maintenance
-makes for a nice track bike with suspension upgrades and body kit if desired- 
- throttle system is a full cable system
- Hordpower upgrades = factory raceteam engine version the CP2 motor ?
 
Cons:
-70's pogo sticks had better shocking absorbing 
-Suspension was ment for the avg 130# Asian  (sadly US seems to be okay with 250# ?)
-Sewing machine sounding stock exhaust 
-Falls flat on its face power wise after 1/8 mile
-EPA fueling requirements ruins the USA FZ-07 engine feel- EU owners got the best OEM fueling
-Not fun to ride all day on the highway- was not built for that purpose 
- no element protection since its a naked bike- no biggie since I already expected that
 
FZ-07 body position feel compared to the FJ-09 is the FZ-07 feels skinny between the legs with decent forward leaning body posture
 
What could yamaha do?
-Offer better OEM suspension for each major market since the rest of the world is skinny next to USA
-add TC but offer ABS as an option  (ABS is total overkill for the FZ-07 I believe)
- go with Hordpower style airbox to let the motor shine- @#$/$ the intake noise police
- dump the 525 sized chain- go with 520- absolutely no good logical reason to use a 525 chain on a measly 700cc when a 2018 R1 has a 520 chain- 
- use a seat style like Seat Concepts
 
FJ-09 (2015) - tuned 120rwhp
 
Pros:
-Super light for its class @ about 425# stripped down by my guess
-Just as nimble as the FZ-07
-Smooth linear tracable power delivery to red line
-Built for 2up/ adding hardbags
-Punches well above its displacement into 1000cc land
-Comfy to cruise all day on freeway then go carve canyons all day
-TC keeps the front wheel down even when using aftermarket LaunchControl
-Sounds like heaven above 5k rpms (Graves Exhaust)
-Ability to add a turbo ? with stock motor since it shares same airbox and motor as the FZ-09
-Far better OEM suspension than the FZ-07- feels like the FJ-09 has aftermarket suspension
- aftermarket CruiseControl is a blessing
- pretty decent element protection when
you use like the Givi riot shield ? and keep the stock rear fender...
- OEM heated hand grips are hot enough
to make Satan cry uncle
- 3 drive modes to pick from
- throttle system is a hybird- cables at the hand controls till it reaches an input box under the gas tank which controls the thorttle bodies- if your not used to a ride by wire system it takes a min to recalibrate your muscle memory...
 
Cons:
-2017+ bikes can no longer do diagnostic changes/tweaks at home via the dashboard like the Acceleration Pump tweak for smoother slow speed response- or clear check engine codes
-OEM windscreen works better off- clean airflow like the FZ-07 when removed
-No factory Cruise Control yet, 2018 is -the year I heard- only a few aftermarket cruise control units left from a good company since 2018 bikes get Cruise Control I heard
-If your over 200# stock suspension will not work nicely with most ppl
- stock seat dont work well with my 155# body on day trips
 
The FJ-09 body feel compared to the FZ-07 is upright like ADV sitting posture, nice wide body feeling between the legs to grip the bike with but still lets you get aggressive with posture when needed...
 
What could Yamaha do?
- change front sprocket to 15T from 16T**(in testing phase currently)
-No need for extra 2 modes of TC on 2017+ bikes that way we can all adjust the bike electronics at home via the dashboard- I believe that's to generate money for dealerships by charging ppl to clear a code after putting new tires on for example 
-Make the left fork leg "alive" by allowing comp or rebound ( I forgot which one) since only the  right fork does all the work
-dump the 525 chain for 520 chain 
- use a seat style like Seat Concepts
************
-Both bikes get same miles per tank around 180miles
-Would buy the FJ-09 as my first bike instead of the FZ-07 if the FJ-09 was released 
 
 
IMG_01121.jpg
first ride together of both bikes @ Fox Powersports
 
18953017_1463955667002957_4123518345622417138_n.jpg
Grattan Raceway
how to upload an image to the internet
 
20160702_141109.jpg
FZ-07 on Mackinaw Bridge-with Mackinaw Island in the distance...
tiny image host
 
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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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norcal616
feel free to ask questions
/debate on this thread rather than PM so others can get an amswer they need... I have owned the FZ-07 for almost 3yrs and the FJ-09 for a year now... to be honest the FJ-09 is my to go bike, the FZ-07 still gets it turn...
 
 
Both bikes are complete opposites of each other
 
I feel the FZ-07 is like a back alley brawler or a A-10 airplane... built to rule the city streets all day...
 
I feel the FJ-09 is like having an F-18 airplane...sure it could find a home on the city streets but it's comfort zone is the back roads chasing them silly squid rockets or doing long distance trips on the highway...
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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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avanti
Two quite different bikes for different purposes.  I don't think most would confuse that fact.  Just, to note, the US is NOT the fattest country according to reports out earlier this summer! And, thanks for the report/opinions.
 
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faffi
Good report, thanks! Interesting to see how we focus on different aspects. Personally, as long as I do not have to live with a 630-chain, I do not care whether it is 520, 525 or 530 - they all work fine. ABS - and this is not easy for me to admit since I am no fan of electronics - is a clear safety benefit on every kind of bike. It will work fine even leaned over 35 degrees. TC, OTOH, is not needed on the FZ07, I think. And why shorter gearing? You can just opt to ride in a lower gear if you are a fan of high rpm ;)
 
Agree about the suspension being naff, but would be interested to hear about differences/similarities about riding position and pillion amenities. Also, have you compared their roll-on performance?
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norcal616
Good report, thanks! Interesting to see how we focus on different aspects. Personally, as long as I do not have to live with a 630-chain, I do not care whether it is 520, 525 or 530 - they all work fine. ABS - and this is not easy for me to admit since I am no fan of electronics - is a clear safety benefit on every kind of bike. It will work fine even leaned over 35 degrees. TC, OTOH, is not needed on the FZ07, I think. And why shorter gearing? You can just opt to ride in a lower gear if you are a fan of high rpm ;) 
Agree about the suspension being naff, but would be interested to hear about differences/similarities about riding position and pillion amenities. Also, have you compared their roll-on performance?
TC is used for 2 things by Yahama, one being traction control and the other is to keep the front wheel down to knee high... it can be turned off, Im not a wheelie fan, never cared enough to do wheelies all day, serves no purpose to me on a road bike since it kills forward acceleration...sure the FZ-07 is a little wheelie monster...save the wheelies for dirt biking since its needed to clear whoops for example... 
the FJ-09 has long gears...6th gear at 10k rpms is 150mph on stock gearing with another 3k rpms to go till the rev limiter kicks in.. hence why I ordered a 15T front...
 
roll on performance, good question didnt even think of that...
 
-lets say both are in 2nd gear at 25mph the FZ-07 but not by much
-lets say 4th gear at 40mph the FJ-09 hands down
- from dead stop- the FJ-09 
 
- I go outta my way to avoid a passenger on any bike I ride, once in a blue moon I may take a passenger or they ride the other bike im not using that day...
-my riding style is similar to how I ride my 250F dirt bike, dont mind tire slides, prefer to use the far outside line of a corner since it lets me carry rpms, and the rear weight bias of Yamaha bikes suit my riding style
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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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faffi
Thanks for the additional information :) 4000 rpm at 60 sounds fine to me. Top speed is about 150, and max power is made at 10,000 rpm - in other words the gearing is perfect for the available performance. Your gearing change suggestion would up that to 4500. That would of course improve pulling power for those riding at more sensible speeds. Personally, though, I prefer a relaxed engine when cruising over outright performance - I can always change down a gear or more if I need more power :)
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norcal616
Thanks for the additional information :) 4000 rpm at 60 sounds fine to me. Top speed is about 150, and max power is made at 10,000 rpm - in other words the gearing is perfect for the available performance. Your gearing change suggestion would up that to 4500. That would of course improve pulling power for those riding at more sensible speeds. Personally, though, I prefer a relaxed engine when cruising over outright performance - I can always change down a gear or more if I need more power :)
actualy the 15T sprocket is getting installed this afternoon ?, got side tracked with a project on both bikes last night... my gut tells me Im gonna love the 15T sprocket, if not I got a few corrections to make on this thread...im still using 3rd gear on the FJ-09 at 40mph(if im in a good mood, its 2nd) and that could use a little rpm bump from the 15T, can always tone it down by using B mode...only use 1st gear on the FJ-09 for launch control, both bikes take off in 2nd gear for me... 
both bikes I use 4th gear till 65mph then 5th for long 55mph roads and save 6th gear for the highway...
 
forgot to mention/add that the FJ-09 has 3 drive modes... 

2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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jbone
I just recently stumbled upon what I think is a good deal on a new (old stock) 2015 FJ-09 at a local dealer. I'm always hesitant to buy the first production model year of any type of motor vehicle. With that said, are there any quirks or kinks that are common on the 2015 that would make it a questionable buy?
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faffi
Thanks for the additional information :) 4000 rpm at 60 sounds fine to me. Top speed is about 150, and max power is made at 10,000 rpm - in other words the gearing is perfect for the available performance. Your gearing change suggestion would up that to 4500. That would of course improve pulling power for those riding at more sensible speeds. Personally, though, I prefer a relaxed engine when cruising over outright performance - I can always change down a gear or more if I need more power :)
actualy the 15T sprocket is getting installed this afternoon ?, got side tracked with a project on both bikes last night... my gut tells me Im gonna love the 15T sprocket, if not I got a few corrections to make on this thread...im still using 3rd gear on the FJ-09 at 40mph(if im in a good mood, its 2nd) and that could use a little rpm bump from the 15T, can always tone it down by using B mode...only use 1st gear on the FJ-09 for launch control, both bikes take off in 2nd gear for me... 
both bikes I use 4th gear till 65mph then 5th for long 55mph roads and save 6th gear for the highway...
 
forgot to mention/add that the FJ-09 has 3 drive modes... 
OK, I see we differ even more than I thought :D I'm usually in 6th gear from 40-45 mph. The bike still has plenty of passing power from there on even in 6th gear unless things get tight. When fanging in the mountains I still typically shift around 5000 rpm, maybe going as high as 7k if in a real hurry. Above 7k, the engine feels rather flat and uninspiring - it's the grunt that is so frigging amazing, the way it shoots forward from as little as 2000 rpm. Short-shifting around 5000 rpm still give a very satisfying kick in the next higher gear. 
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norcal616
I just recently stumbled upon what I think is a good deal on a new (old stock) 2015 FJ-09 at a local dealer. I'm always hesitant to buy the first production model year of any type of motor vehicle. With that said, are there any quirks or kinks that are common on the 2015 that would make it a questionable buy?
Nothing questionable , only quirks was PPL going off road on the side of the road to park or to avoid something and smashed the little oil pan fin next to the drain plug...that lead to a new oil pan style- easy replacement for like $75 to get upgraded oil pan but that outta the question for me since it relocates the drain plug on the right side right next to exhaust pipe  
The dealership will run the VIN # to be sure they can sell it, they have to fix it before they can sell it..only 1 major recall which was the handlebars- which cost the owner $0 
 
Nothing wrong with the 2015 bikes...I would buy one before I buy a new 2017 bike just for 1 thing...the 2017+ bikes do not allow the owner to clear codes or run/perform diagnostic Checks... the 2017 bikes need the dealership to clear a code if the tires get changed for example... all that was done just so ppl got 2 more modes of TC...
 
Only gripe I had at first was the throttle was touchy- I never owned a "ride by wire" system...always had a full cable system for throttle... it took me about 1k miles to teach myself to be in tune with the "ride by wire" ... it further smoothed out by reflashing the ECU and making sure the throttle cable was race bike tight... yes it has a short cable to allow adjustmen's but it only goes a little input box which will control the throttle bodies... and the chain slack in manual is off by 1in... us FJ-09 are running 1-1.5in of slack
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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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jbone
I just recently stumbled upon what I think is a good deal on a new (old stock) 2015 FJ-09 at a local dealer. I'm always hesitant to buy the first production model year of any type of motor vehicle. With that said, are there any quirks or kinks that are common on the 2015 that would make it a questionable buy?
Nothing questionable , only quirks was PPL going off road on the side of the road to park or to avoid something and smashed the little oil pan fin next to the drain plug...that lead to a new oil pan style- easy replacement for like $75 to get upgraded oil pan but that outta the question for me since it relocates the drain plug on the right side right next to exhaust pipe  
The dealership will run the VIN # to be sure they can sell it, they have to fix it before they can sell it..only 1 major recall which was the handlebars- which cost the owner $0 
 
Nothing wrong with the 2015 bikes...I would buy one before I buy a new 2017 bike just for 1 thing...the 2017+ bikes do not allow the owner to clear codes or run/perform diagnostic Checks... the 2017 bikes need the dealership to clear a code if the tires get changed for example... all that was done just so ppl got 2 more modes of TC...
 
Only gripe I had at first was the throttle was touchy- I never owned a "ride by wire" system...always had a full cable system for throttle... it took me about 1k miles to teach myself to be in tune with the "ride by wire" ... it further smoothed out by reflashing the ECU and making sure the throttle cable was race bike tight... yes it has a short cable to allow adjustmen's but it only goes a little input box which will control the throttle bodies... and the chain slack in manual is off by 1in... us FJ-09 are running 1-1.5in of slack
Awesome, thanks. Local dealer has the 2015 for $6900, which is cheaper than any of the used 15's around. If I like it after a test ride, I may pull the trigger and part ways with the FZ. Thanks again.
 

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norcal616
Nothing questionable , only quirks was PPL going off road on the side of the road to park or to avoid something and smashed the little oil pan fin next to the drain plug...that lead to a new oil pan style- easy replacement for like $75 to get upgraded oil pan but that outta the question for me since it relocates the drain plug on the right side right next to exhaust pipe  
The dealership will run the VIN # to be sure they can sell it, they have to fix it before they can sell it..only 1 major recall which was the handlebars- which cost the owner $0 
 
Nothing wrong with the 2015 bikes...I would buy one before I buy a new 2017 bike just for 1 thing...the 2017+ bikes do not allow the owner to clear codes or run/perform diagnostic Checks... the 2017 bikes need the dealership to clear a code if the tires get changed for example... all that was done just so ppl got 2 more modes of TC...
 
Only gripe I had at first was the throttle was touchy- I never owned a "ride by wire" system...always had a full cable system for throttle... it took me about 1k miles to teach myself to be in tune with the "ride by wire" ... it further smoothed out by reflashing the ECU and making sure the throttle cable was race bike tight... yes it has a short cable to allow adjustmen's but it only goes a little input box which will control the throttle bodies... and the chain slack in manual is off by 1in... us FJ-09 are running 1-1.5in of slack
Awesome, thanks. Local dealer has the 2015 for $6900, which is cheaper than any of the used 15's around. If I like it after a test ride, I may pull the trigger and part ways with the FZ. Thanks again.
thats a good price for a 0mile bike... lots of ideas/solutions are available on the FJ-09 forum about any just about anything... If you live around the West Michigan area I can ride out and let you ride my FJ-09 to get an idea what an FJ-09 really is ? 

2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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fzob1
Thank you for sharing your experience and comparisons on these bikes.  I just happen to be interested in these two bikes  :)
 
I have been looking hard at a FZ07 as next bike.  I am coming from heavy cruisers and want to change my riding to more fun and nimble.  My riding will be city and backroads usually in the 55 mph range. The only concern I have with the FZ07 for that type of riding is the wind protection (lack of). I see you have a windscreen on the 07 in the photo. Does that help?   I am trying to have enough protection so  I do not get beat up after a few hours on the road. Would love to hear your thoughts on that.
 

This is my personal opinion/views/observed general complainants from owning currently both a FZ-07 and a FJ-09  ......
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norcal616
Thank you for sharing your experience and comparisons on these bikes.  I just happen to be interested in these two bikes  :) 
I have been looking hard at a FZ07 as next bike.  I am coming from heavy cruisers and want to change my riding to more fun and nimble.  My riding will be city and backroads usually in the 55 mph range. The only concern I have with the FZ07 for that type of riding is the wind protection (lack of). I see you have a windscreen on the 07 in the photo. Does that help?   I am trying to have enough protection so  I do not get beat up after a few hours on the road. Would love to hear your thoughts on that.
 

This is my personal opinion/views/observed general complainants from owning currently both a FZ-07 and a FJ-09  ......
since your coming from heavy cruisers going into naked bikes like the FZ'07 you will get a little beat up still your used to the extra wind... the FJ-09 offers pretty decent protection outta the box...for more protection on the FJ-09 when it dips below 45° I put my big ole Givi windshield on and thats like riding behind a riot shield... 
as for the windscreen on my FZ-07 it serves only one purpose to hold my PCV display which I use for MPH, AFR gauge and shift light since it right in my field of vision.. at first I thought a windscreen would help but it directed more wind noise at me than not using one... even put the stock FJ-09 turn signals on the FZ-07 so the FJ-09 can have flush mounts...
 
 
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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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fzob1
Thank you for the response. One more question. I am 150 lbs and ride solo. I am not a racer either. Will the stock suspension be fine on the 07 and 09?
 

since your coming from heavy cruisers going into naked bikes like the FZ'07 you will get a little beat up still your used to the extra wind... the FJ-09 offers pretty decent protection outta the box...for more protection on the FJ-09 when it dips below 45° I put my big ole Givi windshield on and thats like riding behind a riot shield... 
as for the windscreen on my FZ-07 it serves only one purpose to hold my PCV display which I use for MPH, AFR gauge and shift light since it right in my field of vision.. at first I thought a windscreen would help but it directed more wind noise at me than not using one... even put the stock FJ-09 turn signals on the FZ-07 so the FJ-09 can have flush mounts...
 

 

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norcal616
Thank you for the response. One more question. I am 150 lbs and ride solo. I am not a racer either. Will the stock suspension be fine on the 07 and 09?  

since your coming from heavy cruisers going into naked bikes like the FZ'07 you will get a little beat up still your used to the extra wind... the FJ-09 offers pretty decent protection outta the box...for more protection on the FJ-09 when it dips below 45° I put my big ole Givi windshield on and thats like riding behind a riot shield... 
as for the windscreen on my FZ-07 it serves only one purpose to hold my PCV display which I use for MPH, AFR gauge and shift light since it right in my field of vision.. at first I thought a windscreen would help but it directed more wind noise at me than not using one... even put the stock FJ-09 turn signals on the FZ-07 so the FJ-09 can have flush mounts...
 

 
We are only 5# apart in weight
 
** I love the rear weight bias of Yamaha bikes
 
 
 
Stock suspension on the FZ-07 to me was on par with the pogo sticks from the 70's- at the time I got the bike, not many suspension solution were available- went with Forks by Matt and a matris rear shock, Im okay with my choices - now I probably would go a diffrent route with so many diffrent options available- even for just weekend rides stock suspension would be the first thing I toss in the scrap bin...
 
Stock suspension on the FJ-09 was like it had aftermarket suspension on if you just got done riding a bone stock FZ-07- stock suspension will work just fine- I even able to hit the track and have no issues...general consensus is I'm happy, but would like to ride another FJ-09 with upgraded suspension on both ends or diffrent fork springs/oil and use stock shock, of course upgrading to name brand will be better but I want something to gauge the stock suspension to before I spend more $
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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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Beemer
Nice write up. The Mackinaw Bridge is one of my earliest and frightening memories because when I was about 3 yrs. old my dad thought it would be cute to hold me over the rail to see the ships passing underneath. I have a fear of heights to this day, thanks dad!
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robbo10
As far as wind is concerned, fzob1, I really do not notice it on my MT-07 until I am making nearer 60mph. Your kind of riding is mine and, in my opinion, it is not an issue.

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hpclayto
I've been flrting with the idea of ditching my FZ for an FJ 09 for some longer, more comfortable riding. I got some handlebar risers and am going to have my seat redone to see if that helps at all.

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norcal616
I've been flrting with the idea of ditching my FZ for an FJ 09 for some longer, more comfortable riding. I got some handlebar risers and am going to have my seat redone to see if that helps at all.
one of the main reasons I got an FJ-09- just felt that If I need a bike for multi day trips I would just buy a bike for that purpose... it just happens the FJ-09 fit the bill for me with extra bonuses
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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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norcal616
Nice write up. The Mackinaw Bridge is one of my earliest and frightening memories because when I was about 3 yrs. old my dad thought it would be cute to hold me over the rail to see the ships passing underneath. I have a fear of heights to this day, thanks dad!
I still recall a few times over Labor Day when they let ppl walk across the bridge when I was younger- the open faced road grating on the inside lanes makes you feel like your walking on air when the outside lane is concrete...  The U.P. is a magical place, makes you feel at one with nature...
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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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fzob1
Thank you for the info.

As far as wind is concerned, fzob1, I really do not notice it on my MT-07 until I am making nearer 60mph. Your kind of riding is mine and, in my opinion, it is not an issue.
 

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fzob1
Thanks again. 
 

Stock suspension on the FJ-09 was like it had aftermarket suspension ......
 

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pattonme
Me think @norcal616 needs to try aftermarket on his FJ. *grin*
But he is correct that while the FJ isn't great by a long shot, it's worlds better than the 2014-16 FZ09 and of course the FZ07.
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norcal616
Thanks again.   

Stock suspension on the FJ-09 was like it had aftermarket suspension ......
If you just got done riding a bone stock FZ-07 the FJ-09 feels like aftermarket...

2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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