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bornagainbiker

FZ-05?


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bornagainbiker

I've often thought that 500cc is all that you really need, if it's done right.  The right balance of torque, gearing and weight could make a very capable 500cc bike.  I'm thinking a 500cc parallel twin that weighs in around 375 lbs wet, makes around 50 hp and about 35 ft lbs of torque.  What does everyone here think?  Would an FZ-05 be a good idea?


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dmoney

It would have to fit a certain market and im not sure there's a big enough gap between the 3 and the 7 to justify it. But if yamaha nailed then it could be good

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Duke

I feel like Yamaha wouldn't see it as profitable when they already have an MT-125, MT-03, MT-07, MT-09, and MT-10.
 
It would probably saturate their own line-up if they introduced an MT-05. It would overwhelm the consumer with choices. They already have solid choices for the beginner biker, the mid-market/street/commuter, and the track-orientated biker.
 
Bikes like the Suzuki GS500, Kawasaki ER-5, and Honda CB500 have all been discontinued in favor of 600+ cc engines. I feel like the FZ-07 is at the sweet spot for what a street bike should be for most consumers.

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bornagainbiker
I feel like Yamaha wouldn't see it as profitable when they already have an MT-125, MT-03, MT-07, MT-09, and MT-10. 
It would probably saturate their own line-up if they introduced an MT-05. It would overwhelm the consumer with choices. They already have solid choices for the beginner biker, the mid-market/street/commuter, and the track-orientated biker.
 
Bikes like the Suzuki GS500, Kawasaki ER-5, and Honda CB500 have all been discontinued in favor of 600+ cc engines. I feel like the FZ-07 is at the sweet spot for what a street bike should be for most consumers.
I guess that I was thinking more of the North American market, where the FZ-07 is the smallest displacement available.  ::)
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Beemer
I've often thought that 500cc is all that you really need, if it's done right.  The right balance of torque, gearing and weight could make a very capable 500cc bike.  I'm thinking a 500cc parallel twin that weighs in around 375 lbs wet, makes around 50 hp and about 35 ft lbs of torque.  What does everyone here think?  Would an FZ-05 be a good idea?
Heck, just bring back the XZ550 RJ (Vision) and incorporate some newer technology into it. That would make for an outstanding bike. 
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Beemer

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faffi

Honda sell tens of thousands of their 500 twin in various guises. There is the CMX Rebel, the CB-F, the CBR-R, CB-X - all based around the same engine. With the EU limit of 48PS for at least two years before you are allowed to ride more powerful bikes (unless you are past 24 yrs old), there is a big market for 48PS bikes. Yamaha's weapon in this war is the the FZ-3 plus strangled versions of the Bolt 950, FZ-09, FZ-07 and R6. An unrestricted 500 would serve Yamaha well.
 
The XZ550 would not be as good today as it once was. Honda scrapped their former CB500 twin, and that bike performed better than the XZ in just about every way, but deemed unsuitable for the current situation. However, I like the idea of a V-twin to stand apart. Unfortunately, it cost more to make and would be hard to make competitive against the simpler parallel twins.

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bornagainbiker
Honda sell tens of thousands of their 500 twin in various guises. There is the CMX Rebel, the CB-F, the CBR-R, CB-X - all based around the same engine. With the EU limit of 48PS for at least two years before you are allowed to ride more powerful bikes (unless you are past 24 yrs old), there is a big market for 48PS bikes. Yamaha's weapon in this war is the the FZ-3 plus strangled versions of the Bolt 950, FZ-09, FZ-07 and R6. An unrestricted 500 would serve Yamaha well. 
The XZ550 would not be as good today as it once was. Honda scrapped their former CB500 twin, and that bike performed better than the XZ in just about every way, but deemed unsuitable for the current situation. However, I like the idea of a V-twin to stand apart. Unfortunately, it cost more to make and would be hard to make competitive against the simpler parallel twins.
If Yamaha could make a 500cc that was lighter, had more low/mid range torque than the Honda 500 and sold for a bit less--I think it would be a great bike.  A fella can dream can't he?  :)

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faffi

That's why the MT-07 is the next best seller through most of Europe, the R1200GS being the clear [HASH]1.
 
In the top 20 most sold bikes in June in Germany, we find the CB500F at [HASH]18, the MT-09 at [HASH]11, the NC750X in 10th, the Z900 [HASH]6, Z650 [HASH]4 and the MT-07 in 2nd with 2019 sold units so far in 2017. The R1200GS in first place have sold 5799 units since the beginning of the year. The CB500F have sold 1018 units so far. Don't know how many 700 Fazers Yamaha have shifted, or how many of the other Honda 500s that have been sold.

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Beemer
Honda sell tens of thousands of their 500 twin in various guises. There is the CMX Rebel, the CB-F, the CBR-R, CB-X - all based around the same engine. With the EU limit of 48PS for at least two years before you are allowed to ride more powerful bikes (unless you are past 24 yrs old), there is a big market for 48PS bikes. Yamaha's weapon in this war is the the FZ-3 plus strangled versions of the Bolt 950, FZ-09, FZ-07 and R6. An unrestricted 500 would serve Yamaha well. 
The XZ550 would not be as good today as it once was. Honda scrapped their former CB500 twin, and that bike performed better than the XZ in just about every way, but deemed unsuitable for the current situation. However, I like the idea of a V-twin to stand apart. Unfortunately, it cost more to make and would be hard to make competitive against the simpler parallel twins.
Like I said, with newer technology. Nothing to do with technology but it did have a bigger gas tank, it was more comfortable on longer trips and the maintenance free shaft drive was nice.  
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Beemer

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rocco

I commuted on a ninja 500 for a few years and then bought a naked sv1000.
 
The fz07 feels like their love child stealing all the good qualities from both.
 
I did a few things to the 500 and she was more than capable.
 
I did lots to the sv1000 and could not keep the front wheel down and only came out of 2nd on the highway.
 
Best of both worlds on the fz!

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Cruizin

I wouldn't want anything under 700 unless its a true dirtbike.
 
500 just isn't enough for me on the street. Unless its a two stroke full of compression, piss and vinegar.
 
My 250 KTM is currently making 52 hp. On the street I would want alot more than that.

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Beemer

It just goes to show that like most things, it's relative. I'm sure if the big dogs at Yamaha thought there's a market for it, it will happen. Cross your fingers.

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Beemer

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dmoney
It just goes to show that like most things, it's relative. I'm sure if the big dogs at Yamaha thought there's a market for it, it will happen. Cross your fingers.
 
 
Really it all depends on how big the market is and how many sales they can take away from honda (i think they're the only japanese manufacturer to offer 500cc but correct me if I'm wrong). If you think about it, hondas 500 range is very similar to yamahas 689cc range. They have the cbr, cb, cbx and that new cruiser looking thing the cmx i think it is? Yamaha has mt07, xsr 700, tracer and now the t7. I suppose it goes to show what you can do with a great versatile engine
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chuckles

I kind of want a 400-500cc I4 that revs out to 18k rpm, basically I want something that has the fun of a SS but at more legal speeds.

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dmoney
I kind of want a 400-500cc I4 that revs out to 18k rpm, basically I want something that has the fun of a SS but at more legal speeds.
 
 
I saw something a few months ago that kawasaki were looking at introducing a i4 250 ninja. Then they realised the amount of work involved (getting it to meet wmisions standards) and how much it would have to cost to cover expenses. Never even got to a concept sketch.
 
I think they said the price was going to have to be between the zx6 and the zx10. As soon as an engine revs to 18k rpm then the tolerances in the engine become much stricter.
 
The cost of meeting emisions standards is what is basically killing of the 600 class bikes. The amount of sales they account for compared to the cost of r&d just isnt worth it. I'm not sure what yamaha did to the 2017 r6 but apparently it was the closest to meeting the standards in the 600 class. As far as i know all the other brands are ditching them.
 
I've heard alot of doom and gloom about 'the death of supersports' and so on but i find it a bit exciting to see what all these companies will think of next to fill that void. I thing an mt07 inspired fully faired sports bike could be cool. Kind of like the ninja 650 and the cbr650

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faffi

 

 

 

 
 
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chuckles
I kind of want a 400-500cc I4 that revs out to 18k rpm, basically I want something that has the fun of a SS but at more legal speeds.
I saw something a few months ago that kawasaki were looking at introducing a i4 250 ninja. Then they realised the amount of work involved (getting it to meet wmisions standards) and how much it would have to cost to cover expenses. Never even got to a concept sketch.
 
I think they said the price was going to have to be between the zx6 and the zx10. As soon as an engine revs to 18k rpm then the tolerances in the engine become much stricter.
 
The cost of meeting emisions standards is what is basically killing of the 600 class bikes. The amount of sales they account for compared to the cost of r&d just isnt worth it. I'm not sure what yamaha did to the 2017 r6 but apparently it was the closest to meeting the standards in the 600 class. As far as i know all the other brands are ditching them.
 
I've heard alot of doom and gloom about 'the death of supersports' and so on but i find it a bit exciting to see what all these companies will think of next to fill that void. I thing an mt07 inspired fully faired sports bike could be cool. Kind of like the ninja 650 and the cbr650
 

Its really going to suck if the smaller displacement I4 goes the way of the dinosaur. Not everyone wants a liter bike and its hard to beat the character and thrill coming from an I4 screaming at redline.
 

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dmoney

I think its also the fact that those engines arent very versatile too. If you have a look at yamahas sports road lineup for example. I think the r6 is the only one there that doesnt share its engine with another model. I wont include the xj1300 because that thing hasnt really changed for a good 10 years. Everything else is part of some kind of engine platform.
 
Kawasaki do something similar too. The z1000, ninja 1000 and versys 1000 all share the same engine as far as i know. Its just tuned slightly differently between models. Same for the 650 versions. I actually think its a clever way to do things to be honest. Good way to cut costs and potentially good for all of us if the big brands start a pricing war with each other.

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dmoney
Still alive and well. All you need to do is to move to Japan :D 
http://www.honda.co.jp/CBR250RR/
 
http://www.honda.co.jp/CB400SF/

 
 
The cbr with abs is equivalent to $7300 usd ? it will probably cost even more with import costs and taxes. Compare that to the price of the fz07 and think what youd rather have haha.
 
We have the cb400 here in australia and one of my dads friends has one. He absolutely loves it

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r1limited
I've often thought that 500cc is all that you really need, if it's done right.  The right balance of torque, gearing and weight could make a very capable 500cc bike.  I'm thinking a 500cc parallel twin that weighs in around 375 lbs wet, makes around 50 hp and about 35 ft lbs of torque.  What does everyone here think?  Would an FZ-05 be a good idea?
Heck, just bring back the XZ550 RJ (Vision) and incorporate some newer technology into it. That would make for an outstanding bike.
In the market to buy such a bike, or the SV650 or a CB160 305 next project bike I be looking fer Arrr 
 
Oh ya No 500 Twin a 500 Thumper now we be talking smack at the bench razin table
 
 
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faffi

 
 
We have the cb400 here in australia and one of my dads friends has one. He absolutely loves it
My son has a 1993 CB400SF. The build quality is flat amazing. The engine makes the bike unexciting to ride, while it looks brilliant. The FZ's engine makes the bike exciting to ride, while it looks unexciting. I't rather have the FZ :) The FZ engine in the CB chassis would be even nicer ;)

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norcal616

FZ-07 already a sub 380#
FZ-09 already sub 400#
FJ-09 already sub 440#
 
Maico still makes a 700cc single cylinder 2 stroke ?- bike made for Thor not yer avg mortal human

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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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avanti

Nah... let's go the other way, maybe an FZ-12 or FZ-15, hehehe!!!

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norcal616

Just turbo the FZ-07... use the FZ-09 turbo kit for inspiration but the FZ-07 has the space/ easy to get to approach if the stock airbox is tossed in the dumpster... run the inlet pipe on the chain side forward tucked behind the kickstand then loop back up along the coolant tank ( also an area to place an air/air intercooler near the frame/upper motor mount) then into the airbox...


2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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