Stock ECU dilemma, Akra Titanium Exhaust

[turbhoe]

[span]    Hey, guys, I am new over here. Umm.. I am planing on buying a night-fluo MT-07 and I did some technical readings about the bike just so when I get it, I will be able to do the upgrades necessary.
 
[span]    I've got 2 questions in this thread for you:
 
[/span][/span]1. Is the stock ECU properly tuned? I head or read somewhere that the stock ECU is running lean on low end revs and rich on high end revs. I know that Yamaha spend a lot researching everything and I doubt that there are big deviations from optimal tuning, but still..
 
2. Is it right that I won't have to do an ECU flash if I get the Akra Titanium? I herd that this exhaust is just right for the bike. They even sell it on the official Yamaha website. It's the only exhaust sold there so I think that it might not need ECU flash.
 
 
[span]    Thanks in advance for your help![/span]

[level41]

Almost all vehicles in production by all manufacturers (cars, motorcycles, even airplanes) run lean by federal regulations on emissions.
It runs so lean that it actually runs below optimal parameters.
Increasing the fuel will result in more fuel efficiency.
Increasing it more, beyond the fuel efficient peak, will reduce fuel efficiency but increase HP.
At full throttle it runs how it should run.
Most vehicles run lean in the mid-range (1.5-5.5k rpm).
You will notice on a stock Yamaha, the extra push of power, when the FI gives the bike the fuel it needs for HP.
 
Stock, it is properly tuned for city riding.
 
If your exhaust is in any way or form less restrictive than the stock exhaust, it will need a fuel commander of some sorts.
If you try using it without fuel commander, you risk losing a lot of low end torque.
At high RPM, you'll gain a lot of HP though, because the bike will be running at peak efficiency;
You'd also need to be careful running it at the redline, as I'm not sure if it'll run hotter or the same temp.
Keep an eye on the internal temp gauge.
 
The back pressure is lower, leaving less hot gas in the cylinder, causing the engine to run cooler.
However, it also gets in a lot more oxygen, burning at a much more efficient ratio than stock,
So it's unclear to me what would happen when running it all open, or partially open.

[norcal616]

The EU spec bikes have far better fueling than US spec bikes off the dealership floor due to the US EPA regs... EU bikes will not need a tune if running the Yamaha sold Akrapovic Ti exhaust with baffle in and "cat" installed, the one with the fancy laser engraved logo, thats my understanding...I bet even the US spec bikes will run pretty decent with the same exhaust set up on the factory tune compared to just using the akra ti with no baffle or cat...

[stickshift]

1. Yes, the stock ecu is tuned as good as it can be given tight emission and noise controls.
 
2. Yes, you do not need to get the ecu flashed if you fit the full Akra Ti exhaust.
 
 
I rode around on my stock ecu for quite a while after fitting it, it rides fine and sounds great.

[turbhoe]

Almost all vehicles in production by all manufacturers (cars, motorcycles, even airplanes) run lean by federal regulations on emissions. It runs so lean that it actually runs below optimal parameters.
Increasing the fuel will result in more fuel efficiency.
Increasing it more, beyond the fuel efficient peak, will reduce fuel efficiency but increase HP.
At full throttle it runs how it should run.
Most vehicles run lean in the mid-range (1.5-5.5k rpm).
You will notice on a stock Yamaha, the extra push of power, when the FI gives the bike the fuel it needs for HP.
 
Stock, it is properly tuned for city riding.
 
If your exhaust is in any way or form less restrictive than the stock exhaust, it will need a fuel commander of some sorts.
If you try using it without fuel commander, you risk losing a lot of low end torque.
At high RPM, you'll gain a lot of HP though, because the bike will be running at peak efficiency;
You'd also need to be careful running it at the redline, as I'm not sure if it'll run hotter or the same temp.
Keep an eye on the internal temp gauge.
 
The back pressure is lower, leaving less hot gas in the cylinder, causing the engine to run cooler.
However, it also gets in a lot more oxygen, burning at a much more efficient ratio than stock,
So it's unclear to me what would happen when running it all open, or partially open.

Wow that was a quick and very useful answer. Thanks a lot. Thumbs up  

[jkzak]

1. Yes, the stock ecu is tuned as good as it can be given tight emission and noise controls. 
2. Yes, you do not need to get the ecu flashed if you fit the full Akra Ti exhaust.
 
 
I rode around on my stock ecu for quite a while after fitting it, it rides fine and sounds great.

dB killer in or out?

[Beemer]

No question [HASH]3 about the excessive popping after a new pipe is put on? It's your bike and if you like a lot of popping. 

[turbhoe]

No question [HASH]3 about the excessive popping after a new pipe is put on? It's your bike and if you like a lot of popping. 

That Akra Titanium Exhaust is made in collaboration with Yamaha so I don't think that there would be a destructive effect

[turbhoe]

1. Yes, the stock ecu is tuned as good as it can be given tight emission and noise controls. 
2. Yes, you do not need to get the ecu flashed if you fit the full Akra Ti exhaust.
 
 
I rode around on my stock ecu for quite a while after fitting it, it rides fine and sounds great.

dB killer in or out?

Things are like that: the bike is a bit lean. But all vehicles are a bit lean from factory. No problem New Akra Titanium Exhaust + catalizer -> nothing changes
New Akra Titanium Exhaust w/o catalizer -> a bit more leaner, but you still don't need an ECU flash. Differences in airflow are very low.
New Akra Titanium Ehaust w/o catalizer and w/o dB killer -> you might need an ECU flash.
 
Also if you plan on buying a better air filter things would be like this:
stage 1 - you don't need ECU flash
stage 2 - you might want to get an ECU flash

[Beemer]

No question [HASH]3 about the excessive popping after a new pipe is put on? It's your bike and if you like a lot of popping. 

That Akra Titanium Exhaust is made in collaboration with Yamaha so I don't think that there would be a destructive effect

I agree but just the same, if you're OK with the popping you'll probably get you should be very happy without a fuel controller. 

[hugson2wheels]

[span]    Hey, guys, I am new over here. Umm.. I am planing on buying a night-fluo MT-07 and I did some technical readings about the bike just so when I get it, I will be able to do the upgrades necessary. 
[span]    I've got 2 questions in this thread for you:
 
[/span][/span]1. Is the stock ECU properly tuned? I head or read somewhere that the stock ECU is running lean on low end revs and rich on high end revs. I know that Yamaha spend a lot researching everything and I doubt that there are big deviations from optimal tuning, but still..
 
2. Is it right that I won't have to do an ECU flash if I get the Akra Titanium? I herd that this exhaust is just right for the bike. They even sell it on the official Yamaha website. It's the only exhaust sold there so I think that it might not need ECU flash.
 
 
[span]    Thanks in advance for your help![/span]

 
 
These bikes run super lean from factory. I wouldn't run to long without a tune if you have full exhaust and free flowing filter. Your bike will be running even more lean after those two mods. I have the same exhaust as you and MWR filter with filter cover (stock snorkel and cover removed).
 
IMO the factory software kinda sucks in general.... Super lean, fuel cut off on deceleration, radiator fan kicks on a bit late for my liking and throttle response in first and second gear feels a bit dry and choppy.
 
Even if my bike was bone stock I would still flash the ECU. Just to smooth it out and get rid of the lean condition and massive engine breaking (fuel cutoff on decel). Engine breaking is necessary but for me it's s bit much from factory.
 
Although the popping and burbling on deceleration sounds nice ?

[turbhoe]

[span]    Hey, guys, I am new over here. Umm.. I am planing on buying a night-fluo MT-07 and I did some technical readings about the bike just so when I get it, I will be able to do the upgrades necessary. 
[span]    I've got 2 questions in this thread for you:
 
[/span][/span]1. Is the stock ECU properly tuned? I head or read somewhere that the stock ECU is running lean on low end revs and rich on high end revs. I know that Yamaha spend a lot researching everything and I doubt that there are big deviations from optimal tuning, but still..
 
2. Is it right that I won't have to do an ECU flash if I get the Akra Titanium? I herd that this exhaust is just right for the bike. They even sell it on the official Yamaha website. It's the only exhaust sold there so I think that it might not need ECU flash.
 
 
[span]    Thanks in advance for your help![/span]

These bikes run super lean from factory. I wouldn't run to long without a tune if you have full exhaust and free flowing filter. Your bike will be running even more lean after those two mods. I have the same exhaust as you and MWR filter with filter cover (stock snorkel and cover removed).
 
IMO the factory software kinda sucks in general.... Super lean, fuel cut off on deceleration, radiator fan kicks on a bit late for my liking and throttle response in first and second gear feels a bit dry and choppy.
 
Even if my bike was bone stock I would still flash the ECU. Just to smooth it out and get rid of the lean condition and massive engine breaking (fuel cutoff on decel). Engine breaking is necessary but for me it's s bit much from factory.
 
Although the popping and burbling on deceleration sounds nice ?

Thanks. Very useful answer indeed.  

[mjh937]

I have the 2wdw tune on a stock bike (all I have done is remove the snorkel) and it runs a lot smoother and has more power (the 2wdw dyno graphs show that). The engine braking is also significantly reduced. I would recommend it even if you do not change the exhaust.

[level41]

Less engine braking could indicate slightly rich idle, or slightly hot running engine. Is your cylinder temp sensor being modified?
 
 
 
If you run the bike normally, running it lean is not really an issue, until you start noticing a loss of power, and the bike is no longer having a steady acceleration (or worse, bogs down).
What you should be careful of, is running the bike at high RPM , with or without load. It could damage the engine.
Wouldn't be the first guy, who had a whole burned in one of the pistons, due to excessive heat.

[tejascruzer]

DNA filter and cover, Akra Ti w/baffle out, and ECU flashed by 2WD. Just got my ECU back couple weeks ago so I installed everything at the same time. I can't say enough good things about the 2WD flash, it is without a doubt a definite must have, and their Customer Service is top notch. The engine is smoother, shifting is smoother, everything about the bike is better. There's a nice rumble on decel but no pops or backfires and engine breaking is reduced so it's much more enjoyable. I know a lot of people like the sound of the decel pops but to me it sounds like a bike that isn't running properly so the ECU flash was worth the investment to me.
 

 

[level41]

Yeah, your exhaust is no longer stock.
Tried top speed yet?

[turbhoe]

DNA filter and cover, Akra Ti w/baffle out, and ECU flashed by 2WD. Just got my ECU back couple weeks ago so I installed everything at the same time. I can't say enough good things about the 2WD flash, it is without a doubt a definite must have, and their Customer Service is top notch. The engine is smoother, shifting is smoother, everything about the bike is better. There's a nice rumble on decel but no pops or backfires and engine breaking is reduced so it's much more enjoyable. I know a lot of people like the sound of the decel pops but to me it sounds like a bike that isn't running properly so the ECU flash was worth the investment to me. 

Yeah, I'm sure it feels a lot smoother. Especially if you have the FZ (N.America). Due to legislations, MTs are a lot smoother than FZs stock. I've seen power/torque maps for both of MTs and FZs and the difference is clear.

[mypooper]

The exhaust pops even with the stock pipes. you just can't hear it unless you are going downhill in a quiet neighborhood.

[shinyribs]

If you have a stock bike flashed do you lose all engine braking, or does it just behave like you would "normally" expect one to?
 
I've owned quite a few big bore thumpers known for engine braking, but the FZ is a little over the top.
 
Any reason you don't see more mention of the Flash Tune data links vs the mail-your-ecu-away approach? FT seems like a more logical idea, but I'm new to this whole ecu game. This is my first FI bike ever.

[mjh937]

If you have a stock bike flashed do you lose all engine braking, or does it just behave like you would "normally" expect one to?  
I've owned quite a few big bore thumpers known for engine braking, but the FZ is a little over the top.
 
Any reason you don't see more mention of the Flash Tune data links vs the mail-your-ecu-away approach? FT seems like a more logical idea, but I'm new to this whole ecu game. This is my first FI bike ever.

You still get engine braking after the flash, but as you said it is more "normal".  I think people prefer to send their ECU to be flashed because it is easy to damage an engine if you flash the ECU incorrectly.  I also have the luxury of living about an hour from 2 Wheel Dyno Works, so it was a no brainer for me.  

[kbob2000]

I would stay away from ftecu if you have a 2017. Seems like it would be fine if you have an earlier model but there have been several issues with 17's. Otherwise, you are probably better off sending off your ecu than doing it yourself. The mail in services are going to get you a more thorough tune than just throwing on fueling tables from power commander. There's not much to change once you have an exhaust and intake setup, lower fan temps and set engine braking how you want it. Wish I would have went with 2wdw off the bat instead of ftecu.

[shinyribs]

What type of issues are happening with the 2017's? Mine is a '16 btw.
 
So the programs you insert in to your ecu with a FT are not very complete compared to 2WDT

[shinyribs]

What type of issues are happening with the 2017's? Mine is a '16 btw.  
So the programs you insert in to your ecu with a FT are not very complete compared to 2WDW

 

[kbob2000]

The issues I've seen with 17s are check engine lights, codes that don't exist for our bikes, and one guy's bike wouldn't start at all until Andy Palmer bailed him out with an extra ECU he had lying around.
 
To be more specific, you have the ability to do everything with FTecu that 2WDW does. It's actually what they use. You just lack the knowledge and experience to adjust the timing and other tables in the way they do. Or at least I do. What I did and what most people do is load fueling tables from the power commander site, lower the fan temps and disable the fuel cut makes engine braking so pronounced. 2WDW has access to dynos to fine tune other aspects of the tune, mainly timing, not to mention probably better fueling tables than you get from PC.

[mjh937]

The issues I've seen with 17s are check engine lights, codes that don't exist for our bikes, and one guy's bike wouldn't start at all until Andy Palmer bailed him out with an extra ECU he had lying around. 
To be more specific, you have the ability to do everything with FTecu that 2WDW does. It's actually what they use. You just lack the knowledge and experience to adjust the timing and other tables in the way they do. Or at least I do. What I did and what most people do is load fueling tables from the power commander site, lower the fan temps and disable the fuel cut makes engine braking so pronounced. 2WDW has access to dynos to fine tune other aspects of the tune, mainly timing, not to mention probably better fueling tables than you get from PC.

Are the issues with the 2017 bike only on the ABS one?  I would expect the non-ABS would be the same as older models unless they have changed the ECU universally to add ABS functions that the non-ABS models just ignore.