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pgeldz

Look, Lean, Roll...

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qjohnson
Good info! Thanks for sharing.

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manuel
Thanks! It looks like it is universal instructor language, as it is the exact same thing I kept hearing during my course. The "look" part was harder for me, as I kept getting my eyes stuck to the pylons...but all that repeating made it happen for me.
 
All my respect for you guys, you are a patient bunch :) !
 

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hippiebikerchick
I've only been riding two years and am always seeking to improve my skills. No one is ever done learning. I especially need to build my confidence in turns, thanks for the refresher!

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dede
Figured I'd chime in here and share the most used phrase we used to preach back when I was a MSF Instructor...as it relates to cornering. 
 
Look, Lean, Roll.  If you can remember this, you're on the right path, and much better off than when I first started riding :)
.........
 
Lean - Lean into the corner.  I'm not saying hang way off like MotoGP style, but if you're in a corner and you think you're not gonna make it, just lean into the corner a little more.  Put some more pressure on the inside bar, and use your legs to weight the inside peg as well.  Most racing professionals can probably take the same corner 20-30mph faster, so my point is the bike can make it.  Usually what happens is upon entry, a rider will get nervous and hit the brakes, which will stand the bike up and make you run wide, usually off the road.  If you lean into it a little more, you'll be surprised what the bike can actually do.
 
Roll - Roll on the throttle, gently, progressively
 
Hopefully that helps someone out there :)
 
- Paulie
 
 

 
That help a lot! Thanks.
 
I think our motorcycle courses focus a bit too much on the low speed techniques to get you to pass the driving tests.   I am just learning to relax a bit more when approaching curves at highway speed...  always a bit anxious when I start to think too much about "how to turn", relaxing and looking further seems to magically make it happen. And I realised last weekend that simply shifting my butt a few inches to the right or left when turning makes me much more comfortable and initiates the lean.
 
And I really love to roll the throttle, this little bike gives a great feeling when exiting the curves...
 
 
 

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Guru
I was thinking this at the chickenstrip thread but I suspect that a lot of newer rider don't lean much but push the bike on an angle while sitting relatively straight themselves.
For me it is impossible to use the whole back tire unless I go ridiculously fast through a corner on a public road because I lean with the bike. Leaning with your bike (as if you are one) means that you bike does not need a steep angle to corner.
Same goes with rolling the throttle. Some are surprised that the bike tends to wheelie a lot. I never really have that problem but I tend to 'roll' the throttle more and not use the throttle as an on/off switch. It is all about trying to ride smoothly.
 

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hobbs
Good information, thanks for sharing. For more detailed info and explanations on cornering, handling, throttle control, etc... one should watch Keith Code's "Twist of the Wrist vol. 2". I need to get the book but have watched the video probably two dozen times.
 
You will learn a lot.
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mjh937
I love that video. Super cheesy acting, but a lot of great information.

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hobbs
Haha great gif.
 
I laughed when towards the end a dude was like "so what do you guys do?"
 
"Well I'm a lawyer."
"Yeah and I'm a doctor."
 
Yeah right! That's everyone's imaginary profession.

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cassecou
Another VERY important tip is, if you are entering a curve too fast to make it to the end, DO NOT use the breaks, but instead, lean lean lean. You will be amazed by how much a bike can lean.

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Guru
Haha great gif. 
I laughed when towards the end a dude was like "so what do you guys do?"
 
"Well I'm a lawyer."
"Yeah and I'm a doctor."
 
Yeah right! That's everyone's imaginary profession.
I lolled too. 
He should have said "I'm a so-so actor" :)

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Guest unknown
LOL everyone who has seen that video cracks up at the gif. One of my favorites for sure.
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mjh937
I agree 100% with lean more if you are too fast, but make sure you are looking where you want to go. That is important too.
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Killafornia
Do you guys find it necessary to "hang" on the bike like MotoGP style on the street curves or canyons? I was with a group last weekend and all the guys ahead of me were doing that on a curve. We were all doing the same speed, I was just leaning.

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pgeldz
Do you guys find it necessary to "hang" on the bike like MotoGP style on the street curves or canyons? I was with a group last weekend and all the guys ahead of me were doing that on a curve. We were all doing the same speed, I was just leaning.
I don't think it's necessary for street riding, but it does have its benefits if done properly, as in, center of gravity changes allowing you to take the same radius corner at the same speed with less lean angle.  Less lean angle means more contact on the road...more contact on road = safer.
 
In addition, if you were at the limit of cornering speed because you had more lean angle without hanging off, by hanging off and having less lean angle, there is more lean angle available to potentially increase the cornering speed for the same corner.
 
Make sense?
 
Oh, and as for entering a corner too fast and not using the brakes as one mentioned, I agree that leaning and looking into the corner will usually get you through.  I'll add to that by saying if you are going to use the brakes, do your best to do all the hard braking in a straight line, before the corner, where you have the most grip and control available.
 
- Paulie

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Killafornia
 

Do you guys find it necessary to "hang" on the bike like MotoGP style on the street curves or canyons? I was with a group last weekend and all the guys ahead of me were doing that on a curve. We were all doing the same speed, I was just leaning.
I don't think it's necessary for street riding, but it does have its benefits if done properly, as in, center of gravity changes allowing you to take the same radius corner at the same speed with less lean angle.  Less lean angle means more contact on the road...more contact on road = safer. 
In addition, if you were at the limit of cornering speed because you had more lean angle without hanging off, by hanging off and having less lean angle, there is more lean angle available to potentially increase the cornering speed for the same corner.
 
Make sense?
So you are basically saving the lean angle of the bike for faster speeds, right?
 
Would u recommend that even if you're not planning to go that fast?
 

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pgeldz

I don't think it's necessary for street riding, but it does have its benefits if done properly, as in, center of gravity changes allowing you to take the same radius corner at the same speed with less lean angle.  Less lean angle means more contact on the road...more contact on road = safer. 
In addition, if you were at the limit of cornering speed because you had more lean angle without hanging off, by hanging off and having less lean angle, there is more lean angle available to potentially increase the cornering speed for the same corner.
 
Make sense?
So you are basically saving the lean angle of the bike for faster speeds, right?  
Would u recommend that even if you're not planning to go that fast?

You can look at it that way, yes.  But as I mentioned, even if you aren't planning to go that fast, less lean angle means more contact/control on the road, which equates to greater safety margins. 
Keep in mind this is all relative though.  I think hanging off on a very low speed corner, say 90 degree angle turns on city streets where you're only going 20mph at the most would be a little much :)
 
- Paulie

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Killafornia
I tried doing that the other day and it felt wrong. I dont know if it was my form or because I going slow.

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Guru
The point of hanging is to get the centre of gravity as low as possible, which is important in high speed cornering, but hanging on a public road is usually just showing off, especially if you can keep up without doing so.
I think you just have to try and be 'one' with the bike. Repositioning is fine but moving around a lot just unsettles the bike.

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Guest unknown
I hang off all the time around corners now, even the really easy ones. I really need to work on my body position for future track days. I am not doing it to show off and I am never dragging a knee on public roads. Since I started doing it about 3 weeks ago, I've noticed I am much more stable than I was at the track. I am able to extend fully my outside arm and almost rest it on the tank. Keep in mind, I'm not taking these turns at a race pace or anything blazing fast, just fast enough to work on my body positioning.\\
 
If you aren't doing track days or never plan on doing track days, I don't see the need to hang off.

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targaflorio
^^^^^^
What he said.
One other benefit of putting your knee down is that it allows You to Feel how much more Lean you have left. If it's not on the ground it may mean that
You can Lean more.

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manuel
Good information, thanks for sharing. For more detailed info and explanations on cornering, handling, throttle control, etc... one should watch Keith Code's "Twist of the Wrist vol. 2". I need to get the book but have watched the video probably two dozen times. 
You will learn a lot.
That is very helpful! Very cheesy (bordering ridiculous at times) presentation, but very good learning!
It's in my Favorites now! Thanks!
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targaflorio
Keith Code? Take his class. It's awesome! California Superbike School.

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pgeldz
Keith Code? Take his class. It's awesome! California Superbike School.
I hope to go before the year is over :) 
- Paulie

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