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Do I need an upgrade as a commuter?


DewMan

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[strong]Preface:[/strong] As someone who's getting back into motorcycles after a 20 year break, even the stock suspension of my FZ-07 seems quite good compared to what I was using on my '86 Yamaha Radian's stock suspension of it's day. So far I'm taking it easy on the bike since I've not put enough miles on it yet to even warrant it's first oil change in the three weeks I've had it. And honestly I'm still breaking myself in again too.
[strong]Bike use:[/strong] The primarily use for my FZ-07 will be for commuting and weekend jaunts. There are no canyons worth carving that I'm aware of here in the flatlands of West-central Florida. The closest thing I'll most likely find to "knee drag" on will be Interstate entrance/exit ramps.
[strong]Internal monologue:[/strong] With that being said, I keep reading how horrible the suspension is on this bike. I've been reading suspension upgrades threads for a  couple days and I'm still trying to figure out what type of suspension upgrade is warranted for my 6ft 240lb frame that will make the bike better/safer for my usage type without breaking the bank?
I realize any upgrade would improve the handling characteristics but I can't see spending USD$1,000+ for my admittedly less than demanding usage style. @pattonme has me wishing I could afford to do a total suspension upgrade. But my wallet is telling me I need to be more realistic about it.
[strong]And finally the question: Would a simple fork spring and fluid upgrade be sufficient or would something more substantial be warranted?[/strong]
Thanks for anyone who's read this far. I appreciate your time and attention.
 
 

DewMan
 
Just shut up and ride.

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If your happy/content with your set up, stick with it..
 
 
I was not happy because I was spoiled by how dream like the suspension is on my dirt bike... I also admit the peer pressure of reading post after post accelerated my choice to do a bare basic suspension upgrade, PATTONME fork kit and matris rear shock(wanted the JRI double but at the time there was a problem with the manufacturer and didnt fit my deadline to wait for them to correct the problem)...Im 90% happy but the last 10% does not justify the extra $ needed for a full bell and whistle set up...I just waited for the xmas sale :)

2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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Guest 2wheeler
[strong]Preface:[/strong] As someone who's getting back into motorcycles after a 20 year break, even the stock suspension of my FZ-07 seems quite good compared to what I was using on my '86 Yamaha Radian's stock suspension of it's day. So far I'm taking it easy on the bike since I've not put enough miles on it yet to even warrant it's first oil change in the three weeks I've had it. And honestly I'm still breaking myself in again too. [strong]Bike use:[/strong] The primarily use for my FZ-07 will be for commuting and weekend jaunts. There are no canyons worth carving that I'm aware of here in the flatlands of West-central Florida. The closest thing I'll most likely find to "knee drag" on will be Interstate entrance/exit ramps.
[strong]Internal monologue:[/strong] With that being said, I keep reading how horrible the suspension is on this bike. I've been reading suspension upgrades threads for a  couple days and I'm still trying to figure out what type of suspension upgrade is warranted for my 6ft 240lb frame that will make the bike better/safer for my usage type without breaking the bank?
I realize any upgrade would improve the handling characteristics but I can't see spending USD$1,000+ for my admittedly less than demanding usage style. @pattonme has me wishing I could afford to do a total suspension upgrade. But my wallet is telling me I need to be more realistic about it.
[strong]And finally the question: Would a simple fork spring and fluid upgrade be sufficient or would something more substantial be warranted?[/strong]
Thanks for anyone who's read this far. I appreciate your time and attention.
 

I think the best bang for the buck way to go is to get heavier fork springs, heavier fork oil and your fork spacer set up for the proper amount of sag for your weight.
 
Then get the least expensive Bitubo shock (XZE11) which is $560 retail, but our vendor Bellissimoto gives a heck of a discount for forum members bringing that down to a very doable price. If you do the work yourself, you should have a total of about $575 into the full suspension upgrade, and a heck of a better riding bike.
 
https://fz07.org/thread/5803/bitubo-suspension-retail-pricing-reduced?page=1
 
 
 
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Although you don't necessarily require the upgrades to suspension, it is definitely something worth considering for any riding style. The better your suspension is at dealing with the irregularities of road surface, the safer your riding will be. The difference in the rear with a new shock is massive. It goes from feeling floaty and washy to planted. Maybe an option like @2wheeler described would be best in your case. Minimal expense, 80% solution and you'll be much happier with it I'm sure.

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ninjaiceberg

I'm 5'10", 230 lbs. I commute 40 miles a day on 101 in the Bay Area. It's mostly flat, mostly straight, but I do a lot of lanesplitting. I haven't really felt compelled to upgrade the suspension. I'd like to, maybe, upgrade the forks, but it's not necessary and it's way down on my personal list of mods.

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I've been @ around 200 lbs. on the flatter than flat, flats around Ruskin, Florida for 2 years now. I'm 57, I don't push the suspension but you have to be careful of slick turns around here (mostly low speed residential areas) where the asphalt has crumbled to the size of small bee-bees or there's slippery sand so I'm worried more about tire grip than anything in corners so therefore I don't push it in corners. Anyway, the suspension has been adequate for me. I'm mostly only hard on the throttle going straight line. Admittedly, it has got a lil squirrely a time or two after hitting some harsh bumps but nothing major, I just powered through it. If someone does want to ride aggressively in turns they should beef up their suspension. I say if you don't feel the need to don't do it.

Beemer

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Only one person can determine whether you should upgrade the suspension or not - you! We all have our opinions and points of views, but only yours is relevant. For commuting on smooth-ish roads, I would never consider spending money on the suspension. For the life of me I cannot understand why anybody would want heavier fork oil because it already lacks compliance, but I have just accepted that this has been the norm for decades. Seems people would rather rattle while riding only to have the fork compress slower under braking.
 
 

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Guest 2wheeler
Only one person can determine whether you should upgrade the suspension or not - you!  
For the life of me I cannot understand why anybody would want heavier fork oil because it already lacks compliance, but I have just accepted that this has been the norm for decades. Seems people would rather rattle while riding only to have the fork compress slower under braking.
 

There is one universal truth in life, and that is..... the suspension on the FZ-07 SUCKS AND NEEDS UPGRADED!!! 
FYI, my forks have the heavier springs and heavier oil which were installed by a coworker by the name of pattonme otherwise known as the FZ07.org suspension expert, and the forks work MUCH better than stock!

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pineappleunderthesea

I use mine for commuting during the week, and some weekend fun when I can. I don't feel the need for a suspension upgrade for my kind of riding. I could see it if you're going to shred corners and track the bike, but if all you're going to do is some spirited riding once in a while, I find it to be good enough. But with constant aggressive riding, well, that's another story.

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I use mine for commuting during the week, and some weekend fun when I can. I don't feel the need for a suspension upgrade for my kind of riding. I could see it if you're going to shred corners and track the bike, but if all you're going to do is some spirited riding once in a while, I find it to be good enough. But with constant aggressive riding, well, that's another story.
Second that. 
I thought about it for a while because of all the posts but decided against it at least for now. Too much money to solve a problem I don't have.
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Only one person can determine whether you should upgrade the suspension or not - you!  
 

There is one universal truth in life, and that is..... the suspension on the FZ-07 SUCKS AND NEEDS UPGRADED!!! 


 
 
Why don't you tell us how you really feel, 2wheeler :D
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Only one person can determine whether you should upgrade the suspension or not - you!  
For the life of me I cannot understand why anybody would want heavier fork oil because it already lacks compliance, but I have just accepted that this has been the norm for decades. Seems people would rather rattle while riding only to have the fork compress slower under braking.
 

There is one universal truth in life, and that is..... the suspension on the FZ-07 SUCKS AND NEEDS UPGRADED!!! 
FYI, my forks have the heavier springs and heavier oil which were installed by a coworker by the name of pattonme otherwise known as the FZ07.org suspension expert, and the forks work MUCH better than stock!

Stop scaring the children with those big, scary, letters, you heathen! P-)  

Beemer

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Its funny this was my first bike and I thought the suspension was just fine ( 5'10" 240 lbs) . It was my daily commuter I put a ton of miles on it 140 each day for most of the spring summer and fall, I even took it to a few track days. It wasn't until I got my next bike I realized how bad the FZ was but you can manage it if you are not pushing the bike. Just realize that a better suspension isn't for comfort its for better handling over all which will make it a safer bike. I have not upgraded the suspension because I put it towards another bike but its still something I want to do.
So on that note IMO a suspension upgrade it worth it.

2015 FZ-07 2003 2014 GSXR 1000

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Just replaced a bike with ohlins suspension by the fz07. I commute. I like comfort. I like precise control, trustworthy traction going thru bumpy turns. I miss that. Otherwise much happier with the fz07. So I think I'll start with the JRi 35 PRO shock. No external canister to worry about. Then if necessary, go with the  Ohlins NIX 22mm Cartridge Kit for the front. This is the suggestion of http://www.computrackboston.com/default.asp for this bike.
 

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If you are into suspension you should read Race Tech's suspension bible. It separate between myths and facts - although suspension is still quite a bit of black magic and personal preferences.
 
http://www.racetech.com/HTML_FILES/SUSPENSION%20BIBLE.html
 
Generally speaking, you want the suspension to be as soft as possible and as hard as necessary. The majority will want to ride with a suspension harder than ideal because it gives them "feel". Harder damping and springs will also tend to keep the tyres in the air more frequently than softer suspension, so the trade-off for feel is less grip. However, feel gives confidence, and confidence is also safety; riding scared isn't ideal for your own good.
 
Anyway, somewhere between too soft and too hard there should be a compromise for everybody. The more abrupt your riding style is, the firmer you will need the suspension to be set up. A smooth style will get away with much softer settings. Helmut Dähne, who held the Nürburgring lap record for at least a couple of decades, set on a Honda RC30, used to race BMW air-heads back in he 1970s. Those who have ridden one will know that they had very soft suspension, yet Helmut would soften them further. And he still won. That would of course not work for everybody, but shows that there really isn't a universal answer the all suspension questions and that it is up to each and one to try and discover what their preferences are. And we are still talking suspension here :D

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  • 2 weeks later...
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I'd like to Thank everyone for their input. I've read all of it and taken it into serious consideration. I've also done additional research from numerous other sources.
 
I'd Like to update y'all that I've ordered the BITUBO JBH fork cartridge/XZE11 rear shock package from @bellissimoto .  My primary reason for upgrading my suspension was to set it up properly for my weight and to make less than perfect road surface conditions safer to traverse in all situations.
Thank You all again.  You interest is much appreciated.

DewMan
 
Just shut up and ride.

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There's a thread on that combo - I predict an "awakening" after you get them installed and adjusted to suit.

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There's a thread on that combo - I predict an "awakening" after you get them installed and adjusted to suit.
Yes, I've read, what I believe to be, every thread available regarding this combo which is why the combo was on my short list. :) 
The waiting will be the hardest part..... well maybe the damper rod bolts will the hardest... but we'll see. :D
I'll be using an air impact to get the damper rod bolts removed prior to finishing the removal of the fork caps. Any other tips/gotchas you'd like to share would be appreciated. I'm guessing you're more intimately familiar with the FZ-07 forks than anyone. I've got a shop manual to assist me in the process. but removing the damper rods bolts & fork caps "should" be as complicated as the install should get, I hope. I still need to figure out how to support the back end while I swap out the rear shock. I don't have exposed joists to hoist up the rear end. I'm trying to figure out a way to use my paddock stands to support the tail section or just tie off the tail section to the garage door rails perhaps. It shouldn't need to support that much weight since it'll only be the tail section that needs supported while the swing arm/wheel section rests on the ground.
 

DewMan
 
Just shut up and ride.

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get a ratchet cinch strap and crank the snot out of it between a brake caliper tab, over the fork cap and to another tab. I hold the forks in a vise while hitting them with the impact. Garage door rails are very flimsy as a rule. Beg, borrow, steal, buy-then-return an A-frame ladder from HD or other improvement store. set it astride the rear cowl and put a thick towel over to protect plastic. a layer or two of painter's take if that make you feel more secure but just be mindful of what you're doing and you won't damage any precious plastic.
 
When using the impact, don't stop when it initially comes loose. *keep going* and it'll spin out. You can tell by the sound if it totally goes into free-wheeling mode. If so, I fell sorry for you - you may need to resort to more drastic measures. Call me.
 
You can re-use copper crush washers though I don't recommend it. Chase the bolt threads with a M10x1.0 die.
 
With bolt and washer secured, turn right side up and pump leg till most of the oil is out. Empty stanchion contents. Then you can split the forks to replace bushings (you *are* going to replace those, right?) and oil seals as desired.
 
Install JBH kit.

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0806161102.jpg
 
For what it's worth, how I supported the rear.

Craig Mapstone
Upstate New York

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I will be doing the same install when my JBH and XZE show up. Was there ever a final answer to the small gap/large gap debate in the bushing thread? I read the entire thing and it didn't seem to come to a conclusion on what the best route was. I was planning on following pattonme's suggestion with the All Balls 38-6096 kit. I am slightly scared to see what my lower bushings look like after 12k miles.

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get a ratchet cinch strap and crank the snot out of it between a brake caliper tab, over the fork cap and to another tab. I hold the forks in a vise while hitting them with the impact. Garage door rails are very flimsy as a rule. Beg, borrow, steal, buy-then-return an A-frame ladder from HD or other improvement store. set it astride the rear cowl and put a thick towel over to protect plastic. a layer or two of painter's take if that make you feel more secure but just be mindful of what you're doing and you won't damage any precious plastic. 
When using the impact, don't stop when it initially comes loose. *keep going* and it'll spin out. You can tell by the sound if it totally goes into free-wheeling mode. If so, I fell sorry for you - you may need to resort to more drastic measures. Call me.
 
You can re-use copper crush washers though I don't recommend it. Chase the bolt threads with a M10x1.0 die.
 
With bolt and washer secured, turn right side up and pump leg till most of the oil is out. Empty stanchion contents. Then you can split the forks to replace bushings (you *are* going to replace those, right?) and oil seals as desired.
 
Install JBH kit.
 
Second on that A-FRAME ladder. It makes holding up the rear extremely easy and gives you plenty of space to work.
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get a ratchet cinch strap and crank the snot out of it between a brake caliper tab, over the fork cap and to another tab. I hold the forks in a vise while hitting them with the impact. Garage door rails are very flimsy as a rule. Beg, borrow, steal, buy-then-return an A-frame ladder from HD or other improvement store. set it astride the rear cowl and put a thick towel over to protect plastic. a layer or two of painter's take if that make you feel more secure but just be mindful of what you're doing and you won't damage any precious plastic. 
When using the impact, don't stop when it initially comes loose. *keep going* and it'll spin out. You can tell by the sound if it totally goes into free-wheeling mode. If so, I fell sorry for you - you may need to resort to more drastic measures. Call me.
 
You can re-use copper crush washers though I don't recommend it. Chase the bolt threads with a M10x1.0 die.
 
With bolt and washer secured, turn right side up and pump leg till most of the oil is out. Empty stanchion contents. Then you can split the forks to replace bushings (you *are* going to replace those, right?) and oil seals as desired.
 
Install JBH kit.
Excellent suggestions... Much appreciated. I have a type III (supports 300lb) ladder I can use for the rear while supporting the front with paddock stand or just lock the front brake? I'll probably pull the plastic from the rear and strap the rear frame to the ladder. I have paddock/headstand for then I'm ready to take down the front end.
I am familiar with the sound/feel of free spinning bolds. I'll have my fingers & toes crossed the entire time I'm impacting them until they're in hand. I'll get replacement washers to have in hand prior to starting.
My stock bushings & seals have less than 200 miles on them. Do you still suggest replacing them with better quality while it's apart? If so do you have a brand/part #s to suggest?
 
@blackout Also a good idea. if I can line up some jack stands I'll use it as a secondary to the ladder just to be safe. I'm sure I know someone with the stands I can borrow from for the short time I'll need to replace the rear shock.
 

DewMan
 
Just shut up and ride.

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your seals are fine, then. The bushings are just going to rapidly wear (I have a set here that is missing fully half the Teflon) so you might as well do it now and not have to deal with it later. I buy them from All Balls, I can send you 2 or you can buy direct. There's a thread: https://fz07.org/thread/2223/wrong-bushings-installed-factory-ensues
 
I put both ends on stands and then introduce the ladder.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Pattonme, if seals are good at 200 miles, at point would you recommend replacing? I'm at 1500 miles on my 3 month old 2017 MT-07 and trying to decide if it is necessary for my upcoming JBH install.

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