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sansnombre

New Prototype Intake Filter - External to Airbox

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sansnombre
A while back I saw Hords dyno run that had beaucoup midrange and have been obsessed with it since. Nothing was put out there to replicate it, and after hearing from Hord, his concept was that the filter was shrouding the inlets to the exhaust ports. So an external filtering system was the first start to see if this shrouding was happening. I've been working on flow simulations for the last month of the FZ and at the same time started on this prototype to get the filter outside of the box.
Lots of concerns and issues there, but the design was completed, a 3D model was made and I got a K&N filter (after a LOT of hunting). In theory it would fit just under the tank. I wanted to use a panel type filter with more surface area, but the design would be very complex and I didn't think it would make that much difference. The filter is pretty big, but not as big as the K&N replacement filter for our bikes. The filter shown below is for a 650cc bike, so it's on the mark. It LOOKS like it's touching the tank, but it is not - a few mm away from it.
Eventually I have to take it in to a dyno shop and see what is happening. I'd love to do a comparison with stock, MWR/cover, and then this system. But I'm not sure if we'll get that far, as after all the simulations, I'm not sure that a shrouding or blocking is what's happening; there are some other phenomena going on, and I think that they are mostly resolved with the MWR, but who knows?
I will likely reach out to 2WDW and see if we might be able to work something out where I send the parts up and we have a donor bike. Anybody in Seattle want to be donate your ride? If you do, and we can figure it out, I'll send you a cover for free. PM me if you think you might want to get on board. And I'll look around here too to see if there are any reliable dyno shops that won't charge an arm and a leg. Hmmmm . . . maybe Hord will want to run it to see if his instincts were solid.
Anyway, here it is, along with some reference photos of an MWR setup. If/when it gets tested, I'll re-post. Cheers.
 
 
 
 
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sorkyah
Damnut sans...
Why do you get to have all the fun ;)
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ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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Guest 2wheeler
This is going to be interesting to see what the results of your experiment will be. My biggest problem with the Hord filter is weather protection. Your setup should make weather be nowhere near as big of issue.
 
The crazy thing about all of this (any of the intake alterations) is what are the real HP gains going to be. It appears from what I have read, and what I have heard from Nels, is the max with the Hord setup by the filter itself is 4 HP which is significant. There is so much ambiquity about the DNA/MWR/KN filters with or without lids, and ultimately giving around 1 HP at best, I have to wonder if it is worth it.
 
The best news is that the FZ-07 is arguably still at the top of the mid-size naked bike food chain which means that there will be more folks like Sansnombre doing experiments like this - BTW, thanks Sansnombre for your efforts! 
 
It is going to be interesting to see what will be available for the FZ in 1-2 years. I'm hoping for great things!
 

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sansnombre
I've been alluding to it in the other post, especially as the experiments have evolved, large gains are not really happening via filter changes or wide-open covers. And this matches the feedback from the tuners out there.
 
But the impetus for this, for me, it to figure out how Hord got that fat, fat midrange and reproduce that with a 24-7 capable setup - I believe he was not running a filter on that run.
 
So I'm not trying to max HP gains, and I think Hord already has taken that to the max with INTAKE ONLY mods - internal mods can get you more. But the wild-card is the dynamics (flow inertia, pressure pulses, fluid compressibility, etc) of the system that are not easily modelled in the simulation - these are things like intact tract length which will almost certainly increase midrange at the expense of high RPM gains.
 
Take a look at Hords dyno run for the airbox-removed setup, the midrange gains are basically flat, so his approach relocated and narrowed the gains due to his changes in the powerband at the top. Fair enough, if that's what you're looking for, but I want mine to be the widest possible gains and very fat in the mid-range, at the expense of top-end. Generally that means not as free-flowing (exhaust and intake) but a higher state of tune where things are working together in a dynamic way to maximize the power in that range.
 
You guys probably know all this stuff, but just giving my perspective, why I'm doing this. I want increases over a wide range of RPM, just like in Hords unreleased mods. And like you noted, most of these changes are not doing much. True, but there are a few magic beans here and there.
 
I'm hoping to find some magic with this external filter setup, but it kinda relies upon what Hord wrote to me a while back about his belief that the presence of the filter was actually blocking the intake to the exhaust port, so bringing it outside opens up the pathway. If not, I don't think it's going to have much more effect than the MWR.
 
We'll see, but it absolutely will not get Hords top-end, but I'm hoping to max midrange.

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markstertt
That's an interesting looking intake solution, for those wishing to keep the stock air box and runner length then this is a very promising looking assy. I was a little concerned when initially shorter intake runners were mentioned because from what little I understand, the longer runners bring the power in at a lower rpm. Of course, the dyno will have the final word.
 
I personally like the minimalist and open look of the Hord assy and it's proven HP/torque gains across the rpm range, I'm really not sure how much torque gain would be necessary to actually have your butt dyno say 'wow' this is so much better than Hords. I want more I just open the throttle more. Yes, I know I'm getting off track here...that is in regards to your improvement of the stock air box and I think from what I see your efforts should be rewarded.
 
Just wondering, sansnombre, have you considered a slight compression boost for enhancing your across the board torque curve?
 
Again very nice work and I hope you get to do all the dyno testing you want as I think a lot of us like to see what this engine is capable of and I also appreciate your sharing and great pictures.
 
 

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markstertt
2wheeler, I'm with you on wanting to see what's going to be available for -07 performance and this is why I'm keeping my eye on the dirt trackers where we know it takes at least 100 hp to be competitive. Hord has already proven what it takes to make a substantial performance increase for street riding and all on 87 octane fuel, a good exhaust, bump in compression, mild intake cam and some port work along with his air box and ign/fuel mapping. A dirt tracker would go for more displacement, bore and replate or stroker crank, either or both to get to 750cc. Most of this is available now it's just a matter of how much do you want to spend. What I'm watching for on the track is to see what breaks, where are the -07's week points, this will tell me how far is to far for a reliable street bike. To beat a dead horse, I believe Hord is already there, box up your engine with a wad of cash and send it off with your desires and voila!
 
To maximize sansombre's approach for more grunt everywhere, I'd probably consider his intake mods (once dyno proven) and higher comp. pistons along with the obligatory exhaust and ecu mapping. Probably satisfy 99% of us.

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rhb
From my experience, in the case of street set ups, not all out track mods, the best investment for CONSISTENT power and optimized performance is getting an exhaust of your choice, dropping in a MRW or DNA, get a flash,R6 throttle mod, AND then invest in an FTECU active tune lambda sensor and tuning on the go module. It optimizes real time your A/F mixture which is much more important in my mind than looking for solutions at the intake end alone, given the minimal increases you get. It maximizes the set up you have in any condition, which going by a dyno run on one bike on one day can not give you.
 
Been running that set up (with 2WDWs flash) for about one month and I can't say enough good things about the way the bike runs EVERY day; rain, shine, sea level or 3,000'. It is awesomely smooth torquey right up through gear 5, lifting the wheel shifting from 4rth gear to 5th at 8,000 ever so slightly to the point of getting head shake as the front wheel skips off the pavement., (steering damper time).
 
Not to say I don't admire all this research and computer modeling, it is indeed why we exist (some of us) to know what works best and why things do what they do. American ingenuity. or any ingenuity for that matter :) inquiring minds want to know.
 
IMG_20170301_071952.jpg
 
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stickshift
From my experience, in the case of street set ups, not all out track mods, the best investment for CONSISTENT power and optimized performance is getting an exhaust of your choice, dropping in a MRW or DNA, get a flash,R6 throttle mod, AND then invest in an FTECU active tune lambda sensor and tuning on the go module. It optimizes real time your A/F mixture which is much more important in my mind than looking for solutions at the intake end alone, given the minimal increases you get.
Have you seen Hord's intake dyno graph that sansnombre is referencing? 
https://www.hordpower.com/gallery3/index.php/Dyno-Charts/Yamaha-FZ-07/FZ-07airtest
 
The midrange gains are mega for a road bike with just intake modifications! Watching this thread with interest...
 
 
(The power commander autotune also uses a wideband lambda sensor to adjust real-time fuelling, very similar to your FTECU solution, certainly nice).
 

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rhb
From my experience, in the case of street set ups, not all out track mods, the best investment for CONSISTENT power and optimized performance is getting an exhaust of your choice, dropping in a MRW or DNA, get a flash,R6 throttle mod, AND then invest in an FTECU active tune lambda sensor and tuning on the go module. It optimizes real time your A/F mixture which is much more important in my mind than looking for solutions at the intake end alone, given the minimal increases you get.
Have you seen Hord's intake dyno graph that sansnombre is referencing? 
https://www.hordpower.com/gallery3/index.php/Dyno-Charts/Yamaha-FZ-07/FZ-07airtest
 
The midrange gains are mega for a road bike with just intake modifications! Watching this thread with interest...
 
 
(The power commander autotune also uses a wideband lambda sensor to adjust real-time fuelling, very similar to your FTECU solution, certainly nice).

The power commander autotune is not real time it records a setting then you need to stop the bike and load or save it, the FTECU device is a breakthrough, tunes on the fly. I looked at the Hord box but deemed it too expensive and to labor intensive for everyday use, just my opinion. I'm don't mean to imply my solution is the only one or the "best" for every rider. its a choice we make between ease of use, expense, and ease of installation per HP. If I needed racing mid range I would consider the Hord box, but it alone is not a total racing solution either. 

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gregjet
A couple of things.
The most important thing on the intake side is the length of the intake and the harmonic used to calculate it. Longer isn't better, shorter isn't better. The right length is best. There is more than one length depending on the harmonic number you use ( a base harmonic is seriously long , so that's out). That lengths depend on the RPM for which you wish to tune the motor.
Next is the SHAPE of the inlet "tube" and opening. This has a huge effect on the flow. ( "Funnel" shape)
On top of that is the airbox resonance and filter restriction. And the actual airbox inlet shape and restriction. It isn't simple.
The 07 is very restrictive at the outside end, so any help there will be useful. This mod looks like it will achieve a pretty good improvement in that area. BUT! you have now increased the volume of the airbox and changed it's resonance. Not saying that will be bad, just that it needs testing. It's a nice solution, but not sure it's better filter area than the internal DNA style.
The Hordpower one has a bit of work done at the actual stacks at the throttle bodies, not just the filter, so he has attempted to integrate the whole system.
You solution seems to bypass the endplate hole turbulence problems the stock box has by simply removing the snorkel.
Will be interested to see you results.

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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bellissimoto
The power commander autotune is not real time it records a setting then you need to stop the bike and load or save it, the FTECU device is a breakthrough, tunes on the fly.
 
And so does Rapid Bike...adaptive tuning in real time as you ride, on-the-fly. We're using the Rapid Bike system on the Tarmac Faction Yamaha R3 racebikes and couldn't be happier. No need to go to a dyno, EVER.
 
Rapid Bike is extremely popular in Europe, and now available in the US. They also have a add-ons, like the My Tuning Bike (wide band A/F sensor that's much more accurate and faster than the stock 02 sensor), Quick Shifter, and the new Blue Tooth Module (for remote, wireless tuning).
 
Also available when using the Bluetooth module is live data acquisition with the Racetime App.
 
Racetime gives you the ability to connect via bluetooth your control unit Rapid Bike to your smartphone, to view real-time data coming from your bike. You can also record data during your laps or your tours and cross them with the information coming from the GPS and smartphone.
 
Just wanted to make you guys aware for those of you who never heard of Rapid Bike.
 
:)
 
- Paul
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rhb
I'm not advertising or comparing, it is indeed nice to know there are more options to devices like FTECU Active tune. The upshot for me is:
 
1. FTECU Flashes work extremely well specifically for Yamaha, Nels at 2Wheel Dyno Works can provide you the best base flash for Your FZ/MT07 (using FTECU software).
2. The FTECU Active tune units are made in the US, and if you are going to Flash your ECU which is highly recommended, you can send your ECU to FT and they will load the Ecu parameters to accept the Active tune Module, or you can buy their tuning suite which adds cost and purchase the Active tune and do it yourself.
The beauty of this electronic technology is you could,(If you have neither flash or activetune), by pre-arrangement, send your ECU to FTECU in Orange CA, they could program your ECU to accept the Active tune and load Nels flash file at the same time which he can email to FTECU, and send your ECU back to you with a plug and play Active tune unit. It's what I did since I live half a world away.
Cost is around 700 bucks total. Compare to buying extensive Dyno time is very cost effective as it adapts to any conditions as you ride, I am more than pleased with this kind of set up.
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Guest 2wheeler
I'm not advertising or comparing, it is indeed nice to know there are more options to devices like FTECU Active tune. The upshot for me is: 
1. FTECU Flashes work extremely well specifically for Yamaha, Nels at 2Wheel Dyno Works can provide you the best base flash for Your FZ/MT07 (using FTECU software).
2. The FTECU Active tune units are made in the US, and if you are going to Flash your ECU which is highly recommended, you can send your ECU to FT and they will load the Ecu parameters to accept the Active tune Module, or you can buy their tuning suite which adds cost and purchase the Active tune and do it yourself.
The beauty of this electronic technology is you could,(If you have neither flash or activetune), by pre-arrangement, send your ECU to FTECU in Orange CA, they could program your ECU to accept the Active tune and load Nels flash file at the same time which he can email to FTECU, and send your ECU back to you with a plug and play Active tune unit. It's what I did since I live half a world away.
Cost is around 700 bucks total. Compare to buying extensive Dyno time is very cost effective as it adapts to any conditions as you ride, I am more than pleased with this kind of set up.
Well.... I was talking with a person at 2WDW last week specifically about the FTECU Active Tune, and I was told that the amount of change between their flash by itself and their flash with the FTECU  was minimal, and I was better off saving my money unless I was racing my FZ.
 
Further food for thought
 
 

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rhb
I'm not advertising or comparing, it is indeed nice to know there are more options to devices like FTECU Active tune. The upshot for me is: 
1. FTECU Flashes work extremely well specifically for Yamaha, Nels at 2Wheel Dyno Works can provide you the best base flash for Your FZ/MT07 (using FTECU software).
2. The FTECU Active tune units are made in the US, and if you are going to Flash your ECU which is highly recommended, you can send your ECU to FT and they will load the Ecu parameters to accept the Active tune Module, or you can buy their tuning suite which adds cost and purchase the Active tune and do it yourself.
The beauty of this electronic technology is you could,(If you have neither flash or activetune), by pre-arrangement, send your ECU to FTECU in Orange CA, they could program your ECU to accept the Active tune and load Nels flash file at the same time which he can email to FTECU, and send your ECU back to you with a plug and play Active tune unit. It's what I did since I live half a world away.
Cost is around 700 bucks total. Compare to buying extensive Dyno time is very cost effective as it adapts to any conditions as you ride, I am more than pleased with this kind of set up.
Well.... I was talking with a person at 2WDW last week specifically about the FTECU Active Tune, and I was told that the amount of change between their flash by itself and their flash with the FTECU  was minimal, and I was better off saving my money unless I was racing my FZ. 
Further food for thought
 

Well that is very true, 385 bucks for a precise, on the fly tune is a lot of money, each rider must make that decision for himself. That said I ran my stock flash from 2WDW for about a week before installing the FTECU active tune. It decel popped excessively indicating a need for further adjusting of the A/F mixture, Since each Flash is not exact an taken on a bike in a climate or environment that may be much different than yours, it is fixed and may be out a bit. When I installed the Active tune, it all went away and the bike became noticeably better, and smoother. I ride from sea level to over 3,000' regularly, for me it is worth it. For the average guy, maybe not. All I can say is the bike is a Demon now.
 

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Guest 2wheeler
Well.... I was talking with a person at 2WDW last week specifically about the FTECU Active Tune, and I was told that the amount of change between their flash by itself and their flash with the FTECU  was minimal, and I was better off saving my money unless I was racing my FZ. 
Further food for thought
 

Well that is very true, 385 bucks for a precise, on the fly tune is a lot of money, each rider must make that decision for himself. That said I ran my stock flash from 2WDW for about a week before installing the FTECU active tune. It decel popped excessively indicating a need for further adjusting of the A/F mixture, Since each Flash is not exact an taken on a bike in a climate or environment that may be much different than yours, it is fixed and may be out a bit. When I installed the Active tune, it all went away and the bike became noticeably better, and smoother. I ride from sea level to over 3,000' regularly, for me it is worth it. For the average guy, maybe not. All I can say is the bike is a Demon now.

Glad to hear your bike is running well!  
My bike runs very strong and very smooth, and it sounds like our riding area (elevation) is very similar. I have never enountered a decel pop once on my bike - before or after my 2WDW flash.
 
You are the first person I have read about on the forum that has had that problem after a 2WDW flash, so I don't know whats up with that.
 
Best news about all of this is that there continues to be an influx of cool options for the FZ-07 which I hope continues for years!
 
 
 

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bellissimoto
 
Best news about all of this is that there continues to be an influx of cool options for the FZ-07 which I hope continues for years!
 
 

 
 
^This

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