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philthyphil

87 Octane w/ Flashed ECU

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philthyphil
What octane are you guys and gals with flashed ECU's running in your bikes? I have run 87 octane in my bike since it was new, and it's always run fine with grade of fuel. This is no surprise since this is what the bike was designed to run. Nels at 2wheel dynoworks recommended that I run premium 91 or higher octane after having the ECU flashed. This isn't a problem since it is only like 20 cents a gallon more, and our bikes are decent on gas anyway. The only reason I ran 87 before is because that's what the manual recommends. And I'm a little bit of a cheap skate if I'm being real.
 
So today is the first day that I've ran my bike with the Akrapovic Carbon, and flashed ECU. I still had almost a full tank of 87 octane in there from before. I was going to siphon it out, and replace it with premium, but I didn't have any other transportation today besides my motorcycle. I was too eager to wait until my situation would allow me to get to the gas station, fill up a gas can with premium, come back to my house, siphon the regular gas out, and replace it with premium. I just said to hell with it and I tried riding the bike with regular. I was expecting that it was going to run weird or ping or something but it ran wonderfully. I ran it until it was all but out of gas. Literally running out as I pulled into the gas station, and filled up with premium. The thing is, I don't notice any difference when running the bike on premium versus running 87 octane. Even with the flashed ECU and Akrapovic Carbon exhaust system. I'll most likely keep running premium anyway, because that's whats been recommended to me by the person who tuned my ECU and knows more about these things than myself. 
 
I'm curious what octane you all with flashed ECUs and/or custom exhaust are running? And also, do you think there is any chance that damage could be done by running 87 octane in an FZ-07 with flashed ECU, and Akra carbon exhaust?

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Mr.Puss
C'mon man, spoil her a little with some 91+, she deserves it as do you. ;)

Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.

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philthyphil
C'mon man, spoil her a little with some 91+, she deserves it as do you. ;)
I'll keep giving her the good stuff. I'm too paranoid not too now, after being told to do so by the pros. I think today I was just anxious to try out the new set up on my bike, and she had a tank full of 87 so I went with what I was working with at the time. She's sitting pretty now with a tank full of 91. More than anything I'm a little worried about the one tank of 87 octane that I already ran through with the flashed ECU, and new exhaust. I'm curious if anyone else has done the same?

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Mr.Puss
C'mon man, spoil her a little with some 91+, she deserves it as do you. ;)
I'll keep giving her the good stuff. I'm too paranoid not too now, after being told to do so by the pros. I think today I was just anxious to try out the new set up on my bike, and she had a tank full of 87 so I went with what I was working with at the time. She's sitting pretty now with a tank full of 91. More than anything I'm a little worried about the one tank of 87 octane that I already ran through with the flashed ECU, and new exhaust. I'm curious if anyone else has done the same?
IMO I wouldn't be at all concerned about running through the tank of 87... "picking fly sh*t out of pepper".  Anyone please feel free to correct me if Im wrong here but the 91+ is simply the "ideal recommended" octane to use for best performance with the flash. I really cant see the odd tank of 87 damaging anything mechanical.  
Ive always used 91+ from the day I bought it (no flash yet) and hell its maybe another dollar or two? Big deal, I can still make my mortgage payment. :D Currently Ive got an EJK and a yoshimura and no problems at all. Im installing the hordpower airbox and a powercommanderV and I'll stick with the 91+. My first oil change I swapped to synthetic. Runs like a top. There's been a few threads here about "which octane is best" and it seems to go the same way as the "what oil is best" threads....which is it comes down to personal preference. In this case of course just stick with the recommended. Now if I start dumping jet fuel in there I'm probably gonna have some problems.
Just my humble opinion here.
 
 
 

Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.

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ducttapewd40
I think this is only a recurring debate because of a lack of understanding of what octane ratings really mean. Google it and read some articles from reputable sources (not forums, anyone can post anything on those things) and make up your own mind. I found a few to start with.
 
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/octane.shtml
 
http://www.businessinsider.com/using-premium-gas-often-a-waste-of-money-2013-8
 
https://www.exxon.com/en/octane-rating
 
 
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rhb
of course the US and Canada are the only countries using the AK rating system, most everywhere else in the world uses RON, which means if you read a forum from outside the US octane ratings are different. here in Philippines we are using 97-98 Ron which is roughly equivalent to your 92 octane and what 2wdw recommends.

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timjh
Nels has had one or two reports of pings on 87 after his flash. Was there another problem with the bike that caused it? Who knows? He recommends 91 for caution, but if you have an occasional tank of 87 don't sweat it.

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xeon
Nels has had one or two reports of pings on 87 after his flash. Was there another problem with the bike that caused it? Who knows? He recommends 91 for caution, but if you have an occasional tank of 87 don't sweat it.
If I recall that was also with the Akra Titanium exhaust in the reported instances. I'm not sure if the slight differences in the carbon vs titanium would be enough to cause pinging in one over the other w/ the flash. I typically ran premium anyways with my PCV because I read that's what they used when they developed the map, so when I flashed it this winter, I wasn't too worried about it other than what affect the stabil has on the octane after sitting for a month or two. I did get to ride it once in the last two weeks and the bike seemed happy, no issues that I could tell.  
I would agree that the recommended 91 octane is a safe suggestion for both companies to prevent anything bad from happening, but I doubt the occasional tank of 87 would do any harm. 

2016 Raven (White) ~ Akrapovic Carbon Exhaust / 2WDW ECU Flash / CRG LS Mirrors / Seat Concepts Seat / Givi Windscreen / OES Sliders / R6 Throttle Tube / Ohlins YA419 & NIX22

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Beemer
From what I've read the only thing a higher octane gasoline is recommended for is engines that ping or knock. 91 isn't going to hurt your engine but as you stated, it runs fine on the recommended 87. In case you don't know about ethanol you may want to consider using an ethanol free gasoline. (mine is 89 octane at Wawa and it runs fine) Ethanol free will probably help your engine more than any higher octane gasoline.(if it's not pinging/knocking) Read: "We want to provide high-quality fuel for your machine. While ethanol helps reduce exhaust emissions and boost octane, the drawbacks outweigh those benefits. To name a few disadvantages of ethanol gasoline, it has lower BTU content than pure gasoline, which means less performance and lower fuel economy. Ethanol absorbs water and carries that water throughout the fuel system and engine; steel and iron gas tanks are prone to rust from water. Ethanol softens and cracks rubber, plastic, and fiberglass parts; engines used for marine applications are most vulnerable to deterioration. Ethanol causes petroleum gasoline to turn to varnish more quickly, meaning less shelf life. Old ethanol gasoline clogs carburetor jets, fuel injectors, fuel injection distributors, fuel pumps, and fuel filters; once varnished, it also sticks to intake valves and ruins the engine."   -    http://www.hioctanefuel.com/faq.html
 
 

Beemer

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Mr.Puss
From what I've read the only thing a higher octane gasoline is recommended for is engines that ping or knock. 91 isn't going to hurt your engine but as you stated, it runs fine on the recommended 87. In case you don't know about ethanol you may want to consider using an ethanol free gasoline. (mine is 89 octane at Wawa and it runs fine) Ethanol free will probably help your engine more than any higher octane gasoline.(if it's not pinging/knocking) Read: "We want to provide high-quality fuel for your machine. While ethanol helps reduce exhaust emissions and boost octane, the drawbacks outweigh those benefits. To name a few disadvantages of ethanol gasoline, it has lower BTU content than pure gasoline, which means less performance and lower fuel economy. Ethanol absorbs water and carries that water throughout the fuel system and engine; steel and iron gas tanks are prone to rust from water. Ethanol softens and cracks rubber, plastic, and fiberglass parts; engines used for marine applications are most vulnerable to deterioration. Ethanol causes petroleum gasoline to turn to varnish more quickly, meaning less shelf life. Old ethanol gasoline clogs carburetor jets, fuel injectors, fuel injection distributors, fuel pumps, and fuel filters; once varnished, it also sticks to intake valves and ruins the engine."   -    http://www.hioctanefuel.com/faq.html  

Gee zus. Thanks for posting this bit, I had no idea ethanol  had this effect

Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.

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philthyphil
From what I've read the only thing a higher octane gasoline is recommended for is engines that ping or knock. 91 isn't going to hurt your engine but as you stated, it runs fine on the recommended 87. In case you don't know about ethanol you may want to consider using an ethanol free gasoline. (mine is 89 octane at Wawa and it runs fine) Ethanol free will probably help your engine more than any higher octane gasoline.(if it's not pinging/knocking) Read: "We want to provide high-quality fuel for your machine. While ethanol helps reduce exhaust emissions and boost octane, the drawbacks outweigh those benefits. To name a few disadvantages of ethanol gasoline, it has lower BTU content than pure gasoline, which means less performance and lower fuel economy. Ethanol absorbs water and carries that water throughout the fuel system and engine; steel and iron gas tanks are prone to rust from water. Ethanol softens and cracks rubber, plastic, and fiberglass parts; engines used for marine applications are most vulnerable to deterioration. Ethanol causes petroleum gasoline to turn to varnish more quickly, meaning less shelf life. Old ethanol gasoline clogs carburetor jets, fuel injectors, fuel injection distributors, fuel pumps, and fuel filters; once varnished, it also sticks to intake valves and ruins the engine."   -    http://www.hioctanefuel.com/faq.html  

Yea, I've known about the horrors of ethanol. Unfortunately there a very few, if any, gas stations in my area that don't have the stuff mixed in. To the best of my knowledge there are only like 5 gas stations in the state of California that don't use ethanol. The nearest one to where I am is over 100 miles away, so I'm stuck with ethanol blend gasoline. 

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lovakhan
Yep running 91+ :) on that good diet. This is same set up; ecu and akra ti

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lovakhan
Yep running 91+ :) on that good diet. This is same set up; ecu and akra ti
 
 
And i switched to non eth as well
 

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rhb
Until just last 2015 think, aprilias and Mv agustas, and Husqvarnas with plastc gas tanks were experiencing swollen and distorted tanks from ethanol fuel, it was a big issue, ethanol gas is the only gas available in most countries including europe and Asia. We are now moving from Euro 3 to euro 4 emission standards which has killed some models of motorcycles because they can't comply. It's why the Euro 4 MT 07 has some weird things installed that FZ07s don't.
So get used to it it is the future. fill your tank, keep it full and don't store your bike a long time with ethanol gas it it.

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pineappleunderthesea
I have the Akra carbon with the flash, and I've been running 87 with no issue. Sometimes I put in 89, but see no difference. Same with 93, I see no difference (hard to get 91 out East).
 
The 91 was recommended for the few people that had issues with the Titanium. The issue here is that if Nels was playing with timing and telling us that the flash is meant to run on high octane, I'd feel better about it. But he has never indicated if the flash was tuned to take advantage of 93 octane. I had a couple of cars tuned so that the max HP was on 93, and special modes for 100 octane, so high octane mattered. But Nels seems to indicate that the tune was meant for 87. So.....

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rhb
I have the Akra carbon with the flash, and I've been running 87 with no issue. Sometimes I put in 89, but see no difference. Same with 93, I see no difference (hard to get 91 out East). 
The 91 was recommended for the few people that had issues with the Titanium. The issue here is that if Nels was playing with timing and telling us that the flash is meant to run on high octane, I'd feel better about it. But he has never indicated if the flash was tuned to take advantage of 93 octane. I had a couple of cars tuned so that the max HP was on 93, and special modes for 100 octane, so high octane mattered. But Nels seems to indicate that the tune was meant for 87. So.....
Perhaps an update, Nels recommended 91-92, even for my LeoVince underbody, (97 ron). spend the money on a few extra octane it won't hurt and may do some good. In fact he did say the flash was optimized for a higher octane, at least that was the inference he gave me. But every tune is different, I also have a DNA filter with venturi cap. 

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philthyphil
I have the Akra carbon with the flash, and I've been running 87 with no issue. Sometimes I put in 89, but see no difference. Same with 93, I see no difference (hard to get 91 out East). 
The 91 was recommended for the few people that had issues with the Titanium. The issue here is that if Nels was playing with timing and telling us that the flash is meant to run on high octane, I'd feel better about it. But he has never indicated if the flash was tuned to take advantage of 93 octane. I had a couple of cars tuned so that the max HP was on 93, and special modes for 100 octane, so high octane mattered. But Nels seems to indicate that the tune was meant for 87. So.....
Huh, cause he told me on the phone, Nels that is, that I HAVE to run premium gas of at least 91 octane with the flash. His words, not mine. I also notice no difference between running 87 or 91 even after the flash and Akra Carbon. 

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pineappleunderthesea
Huh, cause he told me on the phone, Nels that is, that I HAVE to run premium gas of at least 91 octane with the flash. His words, not mine. I also notice no difference between running 87 or 91 even after the flash and Akra Carbon. 
Ah!  Well that's the first I hear of it.  When I bought mine a year ago, he had said 87 was fine.
 
But I still haven't heard from the horse's mouth if the timing on the tune was specifically modified for a certain octane rating.  Otherwise you're putting in a high octane gas that more difficult to ignite in the engine that we have....

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x3rolink
from my understanding, the whole octane rating is mostly about how much heat the gas can take before combustion. when the piston compresses the air/fuel the tempterture goes up (compressed gas=increase temp. inverse square law or whatever) i believe in sport cars and other high performance engine has a higher compression ratio and whatnot so it needs the higher octane, or else the air/fuel will combust during the compression stage or before the spark plug goes off, and that'll be bad news bear. so if the rating for your car/bike is for 91 octane rating, then you must not go lower than the rating. but if its rated for 87 and you use 91 then you're just wasting money.
 
now, for a tuned fz07 with aka exhaust, im not to sure. lol. i suppose you can play it safe and run 91 like 2wdw recommends. i think you could get away with using lower rating and not pushing the bike but, i mean, come on. we ride hard dont we? :P
 
btw im not a mechanic or anything. dont take my word for anything.

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rhb
It's all about preventing Pre-ignition, not performance per se
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Beemer
From what I've read the only thing a higher octane gasoline is recommended for is engines that ping or knock. 91 isn't going to hurt your engine but as you stated, it runs fine on the recommended 87. In case you don't know about ethanol you may want to consider using an ethanol free gasoline. (mine is 89 octane at Wawa and it runs fine) Ethanol free will probably help your engine more than any higher octane gasoline.(if it's not pinging/knocking) Read: "We want to provide high-quality fuel for your machine. While ethanol helps reduce exhaust emissions and boost octane, the drawbacks outweigh those benefits. To name a few disadvantages of ethanol gasoline, it has lower BTU content than pure gasoline, which means less performance and lower fuel economy. Ethanol absorbs water and carries that water throughout the fuel system and engine; steel and iron gas tanks are prone to rust from water. Ethanol softens and cracks rubber, plastic, and fiberglass parts; engines used for marine applications are most vulnerable to deterioration. Ethanol causes petroleum gasoline to turn to varnish more quickly, meaning less shelf life. Old ethanol gasoline clogs carburetor jets, fuel injectors, fuel injection distributors, fuel pumps, and fuel filters; once varnished, it also sticks to intake valves and ruins the engine."   -    http://www.hioctanefuel.com/faq.html  

Yea, I've known about the horrors of ethanol. Unfortunately there a very few, if any, gas stations in my area that don't have the stuff mixed in. To the best of my knowledge there are only like 5 gas stations in the state of California that don't use ethanol. The nearest one to where I am is over 100 miles away, so I'm stuck with ethanol blend gasoline. 
Just a thought, but can a person get it at a marina? I'm sure they have it for boaters and maybe they would like a biker's money as well. Crazy thought, I know.  

Beemer

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Beemer
From what I've read the only thing a higher octane gasoline is recommended for is engines that ping or knock. 91 isn't going to hurt your engine but as you stated, it runs fine on the recommended 87. In case you don't know about ethanol you may want to consider using an ethanol free gasoline. (mine is 89 octane at Wawa and it runs fine) Ethanol free will probably help your engine more than any higher octane gasoline.(if it's not pinging/knocking) Read: "We want to provide high-quality fuel for your machine. While ethanol helps reduce exhaust emissions and boost octane, the drawbacks outweigh those benefits. To name a few disadvantages of ethanol gasoline, it has lower BTU content than pure gasoline, which means less performance and lower fuel economy. Ethanol absorbs water and carries that water throughout the fuel system and engine; steel and iron gas tanks are prone to rust from water. Ethanol softens and cracks rubber, plastic, and fiberglass parts; engines used for marine applications are most vulnerable to deterioration. Ethanol causes petroleum gasoline to turn to varnish more quickly, meaning less shelf life. Old ethanol gasoline clogs carburetor jets, fuel injectors, fuel injection distributors, fuel pumps, and fuel filters; once varnished, it also sticks to intake valves and ruins the engine."   -    http://www.hioctanefuel.com/faq.html  

Gee zus. Thanks for posting this bit, I had no idea ethanol  had this effect
You're welcome! I didn't for the longest time either until someone here last year put some info in front of my eyes just the same. If there's a Wawa in your area they have it. 
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Beemer

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sorkyah
http://www.pure-gas.org
Eth free gas listings in US and canada
 
 
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ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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Beemer
http://www.pure-gas.org Eth free gas listings in US and canada
 

Good source! I just mentioned to someone about checking marinas for ethanol free gasoline since boats would have to have it and they list Little Harbor Marina here in Ruskin as having it so try a marina if all else fails. 

Beemer

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peteinpa
This whole octane thing with 2wdw is confusing. The tune doesn't change your compression ratio. Yamaha says it will run on 86 octane.
Here in PA right now 87 is $2.46. 89 is $2.66. 93 is $2.95. Big jump in price.
 
If 2wdw advances the ignition timing in their tunes than it would require more than 86 octane. They say they don't advance it but still want 91 octane.
 
I've only run my bike 40 miles on 87 octane on my fully stock tune and got 39 mpg. Running wise it's great. 39 mpg, not so great.
 
When the weather improves (again) I'll ride some more.

Got new red 2015 FZ-07 on 7/22/16!
Black 2006 Honda ST1300 53K miles.

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