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philthyphil

1st and/or 2nd Gear Power Wheelie

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philthyphil
I want to preface this with saying that everything and anything of this nature which I try on my bike is done OFF public roads, and on my own property. This way if anything does go wrong it will only be my own stuff, or myself getting messed up. I don't get crazy out on the public roads and put people in danger with my stupidity. 
 
Okay, with that out of the way I just want to ask you all a question about our beloved FZ 07. I'm relatively new to riding and I'm getting to the point where I'm feeling pretty comfortable on two wheels. Don't worry I'm not getting cocky or anything like that. I know the FZ 07 is a notoriously torquey bike. I see people on YouTube pulling wheelies of all sorts with seemingly ease. I've been playing around with trying to just get the front wheel of the ground on my bike and haven't had any luck. I haven't tried clutching it up, mainly because I don't know how, but I've just been trying to power it up with the throttle. In first gear while moving at about 10 mph I'll give it maybe half throttle or a little better and nothing is happening other that the bike lurching forward quickly. This is fun too, but not what I'm trying to accomplish. I try giving it more gas, but nothing happens. I've also tried this in 2nd gear. I weigh about 240 pounds so I don't know if that is a factor. I don't ride with anyone else, so I don't have anyone to show me how to do this. Can any of you experienced peeps giving me some pointers?
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forcefed86
You have to stab it or be more in the power band to pick it up or clutch? . I weight 180, have the rear shock at [HASH]8 i have picked the front end up 1st and 2nd without wanting to. I short shifted from 2nd to 3rd and the front came up slightly when i was drag racing a zo6 vette.. im just a wuss not wanting to wreck my bike trying to impress people i dont know!

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philthyphil
You have to stab it or be more in the power band to pick it up or clutch? . I weight 180, have the rear shock at [HASH]8 i have picked the front end up 1st and 2nd without wanting to. I short shifted from 2nd to 3rd and the front came up slightly when i was drag racing a zo6 vette.. im just a wuss not wanting to wreck my bike trying to impress people i dont know!
Thanks for the info. Sorry for the noob question, but where exactly is the power band on our bike? Do I need to be around 6000 rpm or something? I also have my rear suspension set at 8. 

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ddog
I know it's scary, and I know you don't want to do it, but attempt to start at around 40 mph and in second gear. The increased speed will give you greater side-to-side stability. Doing wheelies at slow speeds is the hardest thing to master because the torque in first gear is crazy and at low speed you feel wobbly.
 
Funnily enough, I started learning much in the same way you did. My friends and I all started in first gear because we were afraid of the speed. Don't be, it is your friend.
 
As was mentioned above a big part of actually getting the wheel off the ground is the snap of the throttle. THIS BY NO MEANS IS AN ORDER TO USE MORE THROTTLE - BE CAREFUL. What you want to do is have the throttle roll from A to B quickly. This will give you the snap you need to get the front wheel off the ground.
 
Also, the reason I say that you should be going 40 in second gear is because your speed is a safety net depending on the gear you're in. If you're going 40 a hard roll on in second will bring the front end up, and with practice you may even get to balance point at that speed, but at 30 mph you have so much more power band remaining. This makes that last part of the throttle turn that much more dangerous (in regards to the potential for looping out).
 
Lastly I recommend you start by clutching up. This in a way negates the quick snap of the throttle necessary when doing a power up because the snap instead comes from the clutch engagement. The reason I recommend you start with clutch ups is this: isolating control variables. By clutching up you can decide a speed and throttle position before you want to bring the wheel in the air. All that you have to think about after that is how slow or fast you want to release the clutch. I much prefer clutch ups over power ups to this day because of the predictability and smoothness of the ascent. Power ups are jarring, and hard to get consistent without a lot of practice.
 
To practice clutch ups you can really isolate variables by doing this: find a speed in second gear at which no matter how hard or fast you snap the throttle to full you can't bring the wheel up. Find this speed by working your way backwards to slower and slower speeds, until you feel a little hop when you really crank the throttle open. Then use this as your baseline speed.
 
Get up to speed, pull in the clutch, roll on the throttle and hold, let the clutch out smoothly. I repeat SMOOTHLY. This does not mean slow or fast, just at a consistent rate.
 
Then do it all again and keep everything the same except the clutch release. Play with how soon or how late you release, the rate that you release it at, and so on. Then do it about a thousand times, and then my friend you will be able to wheelie.
 
 
This is a video my buddy put together for our Instagram. I'm the last bike in the video (just so you know I actually can do wheelies and I'm not talking out of my rear). Sorry if the music isn't to your liking, I'm not partial to it.
 

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Guest 2wheeler
My $0.02 worth is very simple and quite conservative.....  BUY A FREAKING USED 2-STROKE DIRT BIKE!
 
You are new to bikes, and have no experience with wheelies, so it's just a matter of time before you hurt yourself and f... up your bike. Wheelies are cool and fun, but flipping a 400lb bike and having it land on you, then sliding down the street while getting the crap scraped out of your new bike, pretty well SUCKS!
 
Used 2-stroke motocross bikes are cheap, and are an excellent tool to learn how to wheelie.
 
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philthyphil
I know it's scary, and I know you don't want to do it, but attempt to start at around 40 mph and in second gear. The increased speed will give you greater side-to-side stability. Doing wheelies at slow speeds is the hardest thing to master because the torque in first gear is crazy and at low speed you feel wobbly. 
Funnily enough, I started learning much in the same way you did. My friends and I all started in first gear because we were afraid of the speed. Don't be, it is your friend.
 
As was mentioned above a big part of actually getting the wheel off the ground is the snap of the throttle. THIS BY NO MEANS IS AN ORDER TO USE MORE THROTTLE - BE CAREFUL. What you want to do is have the throttle roll from A to B quickly. This will give you the snap you need to get the front wheel off the ground.
 
Also, the reason I say that you should be going 40 in second gear is because your speed is a safety net depending on the gear you're in. If you're going 40 a hard roll on in second will bring the front end up, and with practice you may even get to balance point at that speed, but at 30 mph you have so much more power band remaining. This makes that last part of the throttle turn that much more dangerous (in regards to the potential for looping out).
 
Lastly I recommend you start by clutching up. This in a way negates the quick snap of the throttle necessary when doing a power up because the snap instead comes from the clutch engagement. The reason I recommend you start with clutch ups is this: isolating control variables. By clutching up you can decide a speed and throttle position before you want to bring the wheel in the air. All that you have to think about after that is how slow or fast you want to release the clutch. I much prefer clutch ups over power ups to this day because of the predictability and smoothness of the ascent. Power ups are jarring, and hard to get consistent without a lot of practice.
 
To practice clutch ups you can really isolate variables by doing this: find a speed in second gear at which no matter how hard or fast you snap the throttle to full you can't bring the wheel up. Find this speed by working your way backwards to slower and slower speeds, until you feel a little hop when you really crank the throttle open. Then use this as your baseline speed.
 
Get up to speed, pull in the clutch, roll on the throttle and hold, let the clutch out smoothly. I repeat SMOOTHLY. This does not mean slow or fast, just at a consistent rate.
 
Then do it all again and keep everything the same except the clutch release. Play with how soon or how late you release, the rate that you release it at, and so on. Then do it about a thousand times, and then my friend you will be able to wheelie.
 
 
This is a video my buddy put together for our Instagram. I'm the last bike in the video (just so you know I actually can do wheelies and I'm not talking out of my rear). Sorry if the music isn't to your liking, I'm not partial to it.
 
[instagram url=http://instagr.am/p/BMnbGh1AwgM]

 
Awesome man, thank you for the detailed explanation! Now I feel like I have a good base to work from. I really appreciate the way you've broken it down for me step by step. No wonder I haven't been getting results, I haven't been doing anything similar to your explanation. It sounds a little scary, but I'm sure I'll work up the balls eventually. Awesome video too btw. I noticed that some of the tags on that Instagram account say #norcal. I'm in Stockton. Are you anywhere near the Central Valley?
 

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philthyphil
My $0.02 worth is very simple and quite conservative.....  BUY A FREAKING USED 2-STROKE DIRT BIKE! 
You are new to bikes, and have no experience with wheelies, so it's just a matter of time before you hurt yourself and f... up your bike. Wheelies are cool and fun, but flipping a 400lb bike and having it land on you, then sliding down the street while getting the crap scraped out of your new bike, pretty well SUCKS!
 
Used 2-stroke motocross bikes are cheap, and are an excellent tool to learn how to wheelie.

That sounds like a great idea. One that's actually crossed my mind more than once before. Unfortunately I don't have it like that financially at the moment. Maybe some time in the future I will. I understand that there is a risk of my wrecking, and eff-ing up my bike and/or myself, but that is a risk I'm willing to take. No risk, no fun ;) 
P.S. If you'd like to donate a 2 stroke dirt bike, heck any dirt bike, so that I can safely learn to wheely I'd be happy to accept it! lol. 
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ddog
@philthyphil I am about 2 hours north of Stockton in Gridley. We should meet up in between sometime! And I'm glad my advice might be of use to you. Feel free to ask if you have any other questions. I learned on the fz07 as well so I understand how daunting it can be to start out.

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philthyphil
@philthyphil I am about 2 hours north of Stockton in Gridley. We should meet up in between sometime! And I'm glad my advice might be of use to you. Feel free to ask if you have any other questions. I learned on the fz07 as well so I understand how daunting it can be to start out.
Cool, my in-laws used to live in Live Oak, which if memory serves me is just before Gridley on 99. They live in Yuba City now. I also have a cousin in Olivehurst. I'm somewhat familiar with the area. Yes, that would be awesome! We should definitely do that in the near future. We have been having crap weather here for a while and there's another storm moving in tonight that is supposed to linger for a few days. After the weather gets a little better I'd definitely be down!
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pitapola
I've been practicing wheelies based on the first tutorial linked below and I think it's really helpful. I've recently switched to clutch ups and they really are much smoother and more controllable but to me starting with power wheelies (as the video suggests) was a good idea. In the beginning it can get overwhelming trying to figure the clutch thing while still getting used to the feeling of lifting the front wheel. Just start with small power ups (don't aim for balance point), until you get used to it and then move forward. Also the rear brake tip mentioned in the video works really well.
 
If you still can't get it up by just using the throttle like you said, try the trick on the second video (just skip the first 4 minutes). Although the FZ has lots of torque it also has a stupidly long (stock) throttle. Meaning you have to twist it a lot to go to the maximum. Try this trick and I guarantee it you'll get the front wheel up on your first couple of tries. Personally, I've done the R6 throttle mod and it's worked wonders for me, definitely money well-spent IMO.
 
I'm also someone who's learned wheelies on the FZ with no prior experience in smaller bikes. Just take it slowly and try to go higher inch by inch. Another tip is to get in the habit of using your rear brake to get the front wheel down instead of chopping the throttle. It's counterintuitive but it's a habit you'll have to get accustomed to. 
 
Good luck, I hope this helps you.   ;)
 
[video src=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHt_uQx9yl8&]
 
[video src=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF1t4vnMT1U&t=244s]
 
 
 
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philthyphil
I've been practicing wheelies based on the first tutorial linked below and I think it's really helpful. I've recently switched to clutch ups and they really are much smoother and more controllable but to me starting with power wheelies (as the video suggests) was a good idea. In the beginning it can get overwhelming trying to figure the clutch thing while still getting used to the feeling of lifting the front wheel. Just start with small power ups (don't aim for balance point), until you get used to it and then move forward. Also the rear brake tip mentioned in the video works really well. 
If you still can't get it up by just using the throttle like you said, try the trick on the second video (just skip the first 4 minutes). Although the FZ has lots of torque it also has a stupidly long (stock) throttle. Meaning you have to twist it a lot to go to the maximum. Try this trick and I guarantee it you'll get the front wheel up on your first couple of tries. Personally, I've done the R6 throttle mod and it's worked wonders for me, definitely money well-spent IMO.
 
I'm also someone who's learned wheelies on the FZ with no prior experience in smaller bikes. Just take it slowly and try to go higher inch by inch. Another tip is to get in the habit of using your rear brake to get the front wheel down instead of chopping the throttle. It's counterintuitive but it's a habit you'll have to get accustomed to. 
 
Good luck, I hope this helps you.   ;)
 

 
Cool, I'll definitely be checking those out and seeing what I can pick up from them. I have to agree with you, the FZ 07 does have a ridiculously long throttle. So much so that if/when I'm really getting on it, and grabbing a hand full of throttle, it is a little difficult to fully close the throttle between gear shifts. I have to crank my throttle hand back and forth like a mad man.. lol. I think I'll look in to the r6 throttle tube mod. Does that just basically shorten the throttle travel, leaving the rider with the same throttle range, but just over a shorter travel?
 
I've previously seen the 2nd video. I was thinking about trying "the trick" but I was worried about looping the bike doing it that way on the so called "master of torque". Have you done wheelies using "the trick" on our FZ 07?

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philthyphil
I live right down the street from a race track where they have kart racing and motorcycle racing. They have certain days when the track is open to the public for motorcycles. I was just looking on their website, and apparently they have intermediate to advanced motorcycle courses there from time to time. They literally have a wheelie course coming up next month..lol. I may be looking into that one! 
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pitapola
Cool, I'll definitely be checking those out and seeing what I can pick up from them. I have to agree with you, the FZ 07 does have a ridiculously long throttle. So much so that if/when I'm really getting on it, and grabbing a hand full of throttle, it is a little difficult to fully close the throttle between gear shifts. I have to crank my throttle hand back and forth like a mad man.. lol. I think I'll look in to the r6 throttle tube mod. Does that just basically shorten the throttle travel, leaving the rider with the same throttle range, but just over a shorter travel? 
I've previously seen the 2nd video. I was thinking about trying "the trick" but I was worried about looping the bike doing it that way on the so called "master of torque". Have you done wheelies using "the trick" on our FZ 07?
Regarding the throttle tube, you can find more info on the following threads: 
http://fz07.org/thread/3745/who-r6-throttle-tube-swap
http://fz07.org/thread/828/installing-r6-throttle-tube
 
It's exactly like you described it. Trust me, you won't regret it.
 
I mentioned the "trick" video because I was exactly in your position in the beginning and this is what made me do my first tiny wheelie. Everybody said our bike is a wheelie machine and I couldn't make the front wheel lift an inch. After seeing it and trying it on my bike I did my first wheelie on the second try. Just chop the throttle and give it some gas right away using the trick. Don't worry, it's practically impossible to loop it your first time. You're so scared in the beginning that your instinct of survival won't let you give it that much throttle. I remember I was actually laughing out loud in my helmet when I saw how easy it was to lift the bike this way. Just do that for a few minutes and then start working on the method suggested for power wheelies on the first video. 
 
I'll be waiting for your impressions.  8-)

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philthyphil
Cool, I'll definitely be checking those out and seeing what I can pick up from them. I have to agree with you, the FZ 07 does have a ridiculously long throttle. So much so that if/when I'm really getting on it, and grabbing a hand full of throttle, it is a little difficult to fully close the throttle between gear shifts. I have to crank my throttle hand back and forth like a mad man.. lol. I think I'll look in to the r6 throttle tube mod. Does that just basically shorten the throttle travel, leaving the rider with the same throttle range, but just over a shorter travel? 
I've previously seen the 2nd video. I was thinking about trying "the trick" but I was worried about looping the bike doing it that way on the so called "master of torque". Have you done wheelies using "the trick" on our FZ 07?
Regarding the throttle tube, you can find more info on the following threads: 
http://fz07.org/thread/3745/who-r6-throttle-tube-swap
http://fz07.org/thread/828/installing-r6-throttle-tube
 
 
 
It's exactly like you described it. Trust me, you won't regret it.
 
I mentioned the "trick" video because I was exactly in your position in the beginning and this is what made me do my first tiny wheelie. Everybody said our bike is a wheelie machine and I couldn't make the front wheel lift an inch. After seeing it and trying it on my bike I did my first wheelie on the second try. Just chop the throttle and give it some gas right away using the trick. Don't worry, it's practically impossible to loop it your first time. You're so scared in the beginning that your instinct of survival won't let you give it that much throttle. I remember I was actually laughing out loud in my helmet when I saw how easy it was to lift the bike this way. Just do that for a few minutes and then start working on the method suggested for power wheelies on the first video. 
 
I'll be waiting for your impressions.  8-)
 
Awesome! Thanks for the reinforcement. It's raining here now but as soon as it clears up i'm gonna give it a go. I'll report back! Hopefully with good news...
 
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ddog
@philthyphil I also have the r6 throttle tube. It's the best bang for your buck mod you can do to the fz07, in my opinion. I'm sure you'll love it!
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Beemer
My $0.02 worth is very simple and quite conservative.....  BUY A FREAKING USED 2-STROKE DIRT BIKE! 
You are new to bikes, and have no experience with wheelies, so it's just a matter of time before you hurt yourself and f... up your bike. Wheelies are cool and fun, but flipping a 400lb bike and having it land on you, then sliding down the street while getting the crap scraped out of your new bike, pretty well SUCKS!
 
Used 2-stroke motocross bikes are cheap, and are an excellent tool to learn how to wheelie.

He's right. Besides, you said you want to do it on your property and soft grass/dirt is the optimal place to learn tricks.  

Beemer

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SkH
First thing that popped into my mind when I saw the topic title is: "isn't this guy a new rider?". Wheelies should be the furthest thing from your mind at the moment. Learn to ride properly first before moving into the stupid stuff.
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forcefed86
First thing that popped into my mind when I saw the topic title is: "isn't this guy a new rider?". Wheelies should be the furthest thing from your mind at the moment. Learn to ride properly first before moving into the stupid stuff.
 
 
Thats my thinking as well... ive managed to keep mine clean since i set a goal of not doing dumb stuff, wheelies or ride with other idiots. I hate to be making payments on a new effed up totaled bike thats now worth half due to damage. Ive seen a guy wreck his fz 3 times doing wheelies.. just my 2!
 
Im actually working on body balance and achieve full lean now thats fun when there is fun roads

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philthyphil
First thing that popped into my mind when I saw the topic title is: "isn't this guy a new rider?". Wheelies should be the furthest thing from your mind at the moment. Learn to ride properly first before moving into the stupid stuff.
I'm not really wanting to reach balance point and just start ripping wheelies down the road. I would just like to have the ability and the knowledge to be able to just get the front wheel to slightly come off the ground. More or less, just pop a quick wheelie. Like I said, this this all happens strictly on my own property well away from any public road.  
I've taken the MSF course, even though I wasn't required to do so. I could have easily passed the DMV ride test because I went over and did several dry runs on their course on my own and found it to be effortless. Every moment that I spend on the public roads on my bike I am practicing the safest riding techniques that I know and I am learning to become a safe and proficient rider. I really don't see the harm in wanting to have a little fun as long as I'm not putting anyone else in harms way. 
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forcefed86
Its not about others, its about you and the bike. If you are new at riding you have by far yet to experience other scenerios or have fast reaction (brain memory) to deal with? The times the front end came up on mine (not on purpose) scared the shet out of me. Not to mention the nasty wobble i got when it hit the ground. To me that was a reality check, but good luck you may have better result!
 
 

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philthyphil
Its not about others, its about you and the bike. If you are new at riding you have by far yet to experience other scenerios or have fast reaction (brain memory) to deal with? The times the front end came up on mine (not on purpose) scared the shet out of me. Not to mention the nasty wobble i got when it hit the ground. To me that was a reality check, but good luck you may have better result!  
 

 
The one and only time that I got the front wheel up was done on accident also. And now I can't get the wheel up when I'm trying to for the life of me... lol. The one time that I did was when I was pulling out into traffic. I needed to get into traffic rather quickly, and apparently I gassed it at just the right time in first gear. The front wheel came up off the ground maybe 4 inches or so. I had an ear to ear grin after that. But now I cant recreate the action! lol

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forcefed86
Its not about others, its about you and the bike. If you are new at riding you have by far yet to experience other scenerios or have fast reaction (brain memory) to deal with? The times the front end came up on mine (not on purpose) scared the shet out of me. Not to mention the nasty wobble i got when it hit the ground. To me that was a reality check, but good luck you may have better result!  
 

The one and only time that I got the front wheel up was done on accident also. And now I can't get the wheel up when I'm trying to for the life of me... lol. The one time that I did was when I was pulling out into traffic. I needed to get into traffic rather quickly, and apparently I gassed it at just the right time in first gear. The front wheel came up off the ground maybe 4 inches or so. I had an ear to ear grin after that. But now I cant recreate the action! lol
 
 
 
Mine has no problem. Like i said when i ran that zo6 corvette i was a good foot or so off ground.. have you checked your throttle cable tension. Mine needed alot of tightnening after the 1-2k miles

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Cruizin
My $0.02 worth is very simple and quite conservative.....  BUY A FREAKING USED 2-STROKE DIRT BIKE! 
You are new to bikes, and have no experience with wheelies, so it's just a matter of time before you hurt yourself and f... up your bike. Wheelies are cool and fun, but flipping a 400lb bike and having it land on you, then sliding down the street while getting the crap scraped out of your new bike, pretty well SUCKS!
 
Used 2-stroke motocross bikes are cheap, and are an excellent tool to learn how to wheelie.

That sounds like a great idea. One that's actually crossed my mind more than once before. Unfortunately I don't have it like that financially at the moment. Maybe some time in the future I will. I understand that there is a risk of my wrecking, and eff-ing up my bike and/or myself, but that is a risk I'm willing to take. No risk, no fun ;) 
P.S. If you'd like to donate a 2 stroke dirt bike, heck any dirt bike, so that I can safely learn to wheely I'd be happy to accept it! lol. 
 
Just get one off Craigslist or Facebook locally with a blown top end on the engine for like $700. If the kickstarter can be kicked without much effort at all, it needs a new top end, btw.
 
A monkey can rebuild a two stroke top end literally while watching a YouTube tutorial. And it's like $300/ for gasket, rings and piston.
 
Then, you could even sell
It with the new top end for $1800.
 
But ya won't because dirt riding blows street riding away and you"ll be riding wheelies and jumping shet while the fz collects dust on Saturdays.
 
Dirt bikes make u a much much better street rider. I post this factoid, truly intending to save new riders lives.
 
 

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philthyphil
The one and only time that I got the front wheel up was done on accident also. And now I can't get the wheel up when I'm trying to for the life of me... lol. The one time that I did was when I was pulling out into traffic. I needed to get into traffic rather quickly, and apparently I gassed it at just the right time in first gear. The front wheel came up off the ground maybe 4 inches or so. I had an ear to ear grin after that. But now I cant recreate the action! lol
 
Mine has no problem. Like i said when i ran that zo6 corvette i was a good foot or so off ground.. have you checked your throttle cable tension. Mine needed alot of tightnening after the 1-2k miles
Yea, I adjusted my throttle cable when I did the 600 mile maintenance. There was a little slack that needed taken back. Not having any problems... she runs like a top!

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