kjata Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 Think you have an intermittent short somewhere. I'd start with the wiring issues when this 1all st started - at the back. Then I would seek out installation instructions for that pcv and then expose all of the wiring/connctions associated with it. That will likely require removing the fuel tank. Yer about to be well acquainted with your motorcycle. Oh I am already well acquainted with the bike. I can confidently strip the bike down and put it back together. Typically, the only time I need help is removing the tank because of the fuel cable is kinda hard to remove while holding the heavy tank. Otherwise I pretty much see how each component works together. Taking off the power commander pretty much taught me all I needed to know because I had to visually teach myself. Yeah now that you mention it, early in the year I installed the Motodynamic tail tidy but had blew a fuse and I think I had a couple of wires rubbing against each other that shouldn't have. So I had no horn and no signals. Started the bike up the next day to bring to him and the idle was all over the place without even touching the throttle. So I managed to get it to him safely and he replaced the fuse and said he cleaned up the wires a bit. He might have had to replace a wire. When I picked it up from everything was normal. Idle was fine. But after this date, that's when I started noticing the inconsistent idle problem. The dealership suggested this could be an electrical problem too but didn't know where to begin, if this could be electrical at all, or a wild goose chase. So that's a potential lead, but with that I don't even know where to begin fixing that. The dealership didn't know where to begin after you told them which wires were worked with??? Is your last name Plague? Yeah, don't go to them anymore. If you don't know how to use a volt meter you can easily learn and check wires for inconsistency yourself but first you can simply look at those wires (the ones you mentioned) and check to see if any of the metal is exposed and touching the frame. If so, replace or patch up but do a good job whatever you do and then test the bike. Be sure to look under the wires and check that the insulation is in tact and not exposing any of the wire itself. If it is a wiring problem the source is most likely where it was fiddled with if it was alright before then. "Didn't know where to begin", ha! Sounds to me like they don't want to mess with it if it's under warranty because they don't want to possibly be putting in a lot of hours tracking down a wiring problem for nothing.The problem with the dealership is that I told another dealership my problem and they respectfully declined to help me. They more or less said that the problem is so broad and potentially could be everywhere that they have no desire to "make an enemy out of me." And that "yeah, I could sit here and charge you out the ass trying to locate the problem, but that wouldn't be fair to you." So that leaves me with little options. Another problem with MY dealer is they t a k e f o r e v e r to work on the bike. Earlier in the year my o2 sensor went back and they simply had to replace it. 3 months. It took 3 months to do that. Last time I took it there it was 2 months and they only had 1 hour worth of labor on file. Fortunately I can take advantage of their slow speed and winterize my bike in their garage for nearly free since they're so fucking slow. So if I can determine that there is an electrical short somewhere I'll call them back up and see if they're still friends with me, after being mean to them. If so, I'll drop it off and just expect more bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 i think I would just start using my eyes before wasting time/money at the dealer. Start with the tail tidy and work your way t the battery. You've already popped a fuse from that work not done well. Look for a bundle of wires that might have been pinched. You don't have to have a wire actually touching the frame. It could be inside a bundle of wires where a wire carrying 12V is touching a ground wire. If you find a spot on a wire bundle that looks like it's been damaged, I'd open it up to have a look at the wires inside. Don't know much about the PCV, but it's spliced into multiple places including the throttle position sensor. Could very well be that this was not done well - bike shops work in a hurry - find a friend who knows what they are doing and is not in a hurry to have a look under the tank. But i think year gonna have to lift that tank to find the idle issue. It might be something as simple as a connector that's only partially reconnected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted October 16, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted October 16, 2016 The FZ-07 pcv has 2 piggy back connections for the 2 coil caps, 2 piggy back connections for the throttle body injection, a piggy back connection for throttle position and a piggy back crank sensor wire... There is one 1 wire that is actually spliced into the bike which is the gear position sensor wire...there is also an o2 optimization device that is also needed to be installed which has piggy back connections for the o2 sensor and it has 2 wires for power and ground... I would totally remove the PCV and see if bike runs properly first before reinstalling the PCV, which may be faulty... 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 soooo many places for something to go wrong! Combine this with 2 leftover wires not connected to anything - yeah, rip (figuratively of course) that thing out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjata Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 soooo many places for something to go wrong! Combine this with 2 leftover wires not connected to anything - yeah, rip (figuratively of course) that thing out I've been sitting on that. Really thinking about where those could go. Part of me thinks one of those connectors will attach to the fuel tank and the wire that would've went to the fuel tank without the PCV will go to the other one. I mean.. it's a fucking fuel controller. WOULDN'T IT MAKE SENSE TO CONNECT IT TO THE GAS TANK??!?!!? The more I think about this, the more I'm like, oh fuck, it's gotta fit to that. Hahaha. my bike is a mess, I know I'm so fucked. Really hoping I can salvage this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted October 16, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted October 16, 2016 The directions are very detailed about how to connect the PCV to the FZ-07, like what body panels to remove to connect the PCV and what and where the piggy back connections go... looking at my directions and there should not be any extra leftover connections..it even shows where to put the PCV unit in the storage tray...nothing gets connected to the gas tank... The only available piggy back connections on the PCV harness go to the coil caps, fuel injectors on throttle body, the crank sensor, throttle position sensor, the power wire and ground wire are attached to the appropriate battery post... I apologize for saying there is 1 wire splice for speed sensor but I forgot that's only if the PCV auto tuner is installed...The directions even say which colored wire go to the right or left side coil cap or fuel injectors... 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Make sense to connect to the tank? Nope, not even a little. The tank is just a can with a fuel pump that pushes fuel to the injectors. The controller needs a lot of info. Connecting it to the outside of the tank will tell it nothing. It's likely those 2 wires should not be floating free. You really need to know where and not just guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjata Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 Ok well Sunday I'm going to have to rip her down once again. I'll completely remove the PCV and completely install once again. I'm just now reading the instructions and seeing that different colored wires go to the left or right side of the bike anyway. So I want to double check to make sure I have it right. The two piggy back connections I'm referring to are closest to the actual PCV box. Where the furthest white cables go to the front left of the bike, next two go to the coil caps, next two are injectors and then the bottom two look like Figure G on the instructions. That's the one I'm missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjata Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 Yeah now that you mention it, early in the year I installed the Motodynamic tail tidy but had blew a fuse and I think I had a couple of wires rubbing against each other that shouldn't have. So I had no horn and no signals. Started the bike up the next day to bring to him and the idle was all over the place without even touching the throttle. So I managed to get it to him safely and he replaced the fuse and said he cleaned up the wires a bit. He might have had to replace a wire. When I picked it up from everything was normal. Idle was fine. But after this date, that's when I started noticing the inconsistent idle problem. The dealership suggested this could be an electrical problem too but didn't know where to begin, if this could be electrical at all, or a wild goose chase. So that's a potential lead, but with that I don't even know where to begin fixing that. The dealership didn't know where to begin after you told them which wires were worked with??? Is your last name Plague? Yeah, don't go to them anymore. If you don't know how to use a volt meter you can easily learn and check wires for inconsistency yourself but first you can simply look at those wires (the ones you mentioned) and check to see if any of the metal is exposed and touching the frame. If so, replace or patch up but do a good job whatever you do and then test the bike. Be sure to look under the wires and check that the insulation is in tact and not exposing any of the wire itself. If it is a wiring problem the source is most likely where it was fiddled with if it was alright before then. "Didn't know where to begin", ha! Sounds to me like they don't want to mess with it if it's under warranty because they don't want to possibly be putting in a lot of hours tracking down a wiring problem for nothing. As the weekend approaches and I'm preparing to try and rip the bike down and test for shorts. The problem is.. I don't know how to do that. Can I simply do this method to try and determine the cause of the short (if there is one.) [video src=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5FJDgcdii8] I'll try and look at the wires too. Making sure nothing is exposed. But is there anything I should watch out for? Anything to make sure I DON'T do that could lead to more problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I probably shouldn't have told you about a volt meter, you can try doing that but but it can be very time consuming and a pita. If it were me I would first get back with your guy that worked on it and tell him what's going on. He will know exactly what wires he messed with and can go back and look at his work since his work is possibly suspect. Sometimes a soldiering job can come apart or a wire got pinched (zip tie too tight or wire bent too much), insulation rubbed off, etc. If he bundled wires that should be taken apart and checked. Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Yeah, that might help find where. Found a faulty trunk light switch, that was leaving the light on when the trunk was shut, that way. The ECU will always draw a bit of current, so unless you pull the fuse that protects it, there will always be a small amount of current Just make sure you never put the ohm meter across a voltage source. And a short that pops a 15A fuse (it's drawing more than 15A) might harm a meter that only has a 10A scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I probably shouldn't have told you about a volt meter, you can try doing that but but it can be very time consuming and a pita. If it were me I would first get back with your guy that worked on it and tell him what's going on. He will know exactly what wires he messed with and can go back and look at his work since his work is possibly suspect. Sometimes a soldiering job can come apart or a wire got pinched (zip tie too tight or wire bent too much), insulation rubbed off, etc. If he bundled wires that should be taken apart and checked. Or that. Yep, likely that whatever was played with will be where the issue is.This is why I suggested looking at the wires going to the back 1st as they are easy to see and then pull the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjata Posted October 22, 2016 Author Share Posted October 22, 2016 Yeah, that might help find where. Found a faulty trunk light switch, that was leaving the light on when the trunk was shut, that way. The ECU will always draw a bit of current, so unless you pull the fuse that protects it, there will always be a small amount of current Just make sure you never put the ohm meter across a voltage source. And a short that pops a 15A fuse (it's drawing more than 15A) might harm a meter that only has a 10A scale OK so before I touch anything electrical, would it be a good idea to pull out the fuse for the ECU that way I don't short anything else out? And why is it that this would happen? Like.. how could the wires that affect turning signals and Horn, have an affect on engine idle? Is it because the power is unevenly distributed or something? Sorry if these are dumb questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 That's not a dumb question. It could just be a coincidence. But because you've had so much wiring played with at this shop and you did have a fuse blow, I think you need to eliminate all possibilities. Likely your idle problem is related to the PCV or how it was installed. That could be something as simple a plug not completely latched back together. But there's really only one way to find this - and that's to look. If yer worried about the ECU - just unplug it. Might not hurt to unplug the regulator/rectifier while yer at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted October 22, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2016 After re reading the thread a few times... completely pull the PCV off bike and make sure the OEM connections are secure...the bike will still run on the stock OEM mapping with your akra carbon exhaust... if the idle problem is still there then the problem lies elsewhere...the motodynamic tail light is plug and play also... if the problem goes away by removing PCV then it's either a faulty PCV, bad or wrong or missing connections, wrong map install or the fact some wires got damaged from the fan you mentioned earlier... 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjata Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Update! -Throttle is reverted to normal. Check engine light is gone! -PCV was completely removed and reinstalled flawlessly. Every cable happily has it's own significant other, including the unattached cables to the TSP sensor. -I went back and checked the wires in the back end where the tail tidy was installed. Everything looked clean. -o2 Sensor was reattached Results: Idle was tame at 1.5k the whole ride home. At stops, there was no drop in rpm. Something to take in consideration is that it is much cooler this time a year than it was earlier. So I don't know if that plays a role in this particular situation. I also forgot to attach the two breather valves to the gas tank which is something to take a mental note of. I doubt that will be a problem. Further testing seems to be the best choice of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 TSP - as in Throttle Position Sensor. So the wires that should have been hooked to the TPS were not before but are now? That alone would sure do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjata Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 TSP - as in Throttle Position Sensor. So the wires that should have been hooked to the TPS were not before but are now? That alone would sure do it. TSP lol, I'm thinking about Thrift Savings Plan.. 8D YES TPS. Well last week I completely removed the PCV and reinstalled it incorrectly. I wasn't sure where to connect the TPS piggy back connector so I left it unhooked. This week I got it in. I'm sure it was in correctly when the dealer did it. Going to fire it up a little later and see what the deal is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjata Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 [video src=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1upHxtGZSOE] No progress. -_-. So close to just paying the lien and selling this as is. what a headache this bike turned out to be. Really running out of ideas at this point. At this point the only things I haven't tried are reflashing the ECU or checking the map in the power commander. But even then I don't even know how to make adjustments in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Does it still do that when the motor is fully up to temp? Do you have the baffles in that pipe and is the O2 sensor still used? Someone else will have to answer this, but I'm not sure that the PCV bothers with mixture at idle. These bikes run very lean mixtures at idle. Adding that pipe - especially if the baffles are out - can only make that worse. In closed loop FI ( need that O2 sensor working) the ecu manages that lean mix at idle by seeing signal from the O2 sensor and manages idle speed via a little box that sits right between the cylinders at the back of the motor. This is the idle air control valve - Yamaha calls it something fancy, but it's just yer basic IAC valve. At idle, the throttle plates are dead closed and air can only get into the motor via that IAC. Has the the throttle bodies been synced for vacuum? Gonna assume that the throttle stop screw is still painted where the factory left it. If that's been messed with or both cylinder's air bypass screws were opened, that will cause all sorts of bad stuff. Is this a full exhaust system? You might want to make sure the header pipes are not leaking at the head. Air getting into the exhaust (exhaust getting out w/o the O2 sensor seeing it) will tell the O2 sensor incorrect info and this could cause some of the hunting. It might even be temp dependent. Easiest thing for you to do is to remove the PCV completely (mine runs quite well w/o such devices - my 14 year old Aprilia is still box stock and has never even been plugged into a diagnostic tool) . If that fixes it, well, leave it off until you can get it checked. If that doesn't fix it, there's a problem somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted October 24, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted October 24, 2016 Need to pull PCV to make sure bike runs fine...then we can help try to guide you to fix your problem... I have a few ideas as to why you have that problem but we need to determine if bike runs without PCV first... 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjata Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 Need to pull PCV to make sure bike runs fine...then we can help try to guide you to fix your problem... I have a few ideas as to why you have that problem but we need to determine if bike runs without PCV first...Pulled it last week, problem was still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norcal616 Posted October 24, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted October 24, 2016 I know my bike has a odd idle the first 2-3 times I ride the bike to the store to then it never happens again unless I disconnect the battery...The idle will slowly die off(15-20secs)to the point of stalling then quickly rev back up...this is the computer relearning the idle...it has happened the last 4 weeks as I switch between my bikes swapping over my heat controller for heated jacket liner...The first ride the odd idle is hella noticeable, the 2-3 ride is half as noticeable then after that I really don't notice an odd idle... 2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 There's a long term fuel trim that's learned, but the idle speed is programmed in solid and should be a nice constant except for a high idle when cold. Both of my bikes - one old and one relatively new sit for months in a cold garage over the winter w/o running (but on float chargers) and then fire up in the spring and run just like f-ing winter never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Need to pull PCV to make sure bike runs fine...then we can help try to guide you to fix your problem... I have a few ideas as to why you have that problem but we need to determine if bike runs without PCV first...Pulled it last week, problem was still there. Went back and reread lots of this. You said a couple of fuses blew when you did the tail tidy and that's sorta when this started. Do you remember which fuses and are they all still OK? i'm thinking the ecu light was on because the TPS wasn't hooked in properly, but that doesn't explain the error code for the idle control. Have you checked all vacuum hoses and plugs to make sure they are all in place? A vac leak will cause all sorts of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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