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kjata

[SOLVED] Low inconsistent idle

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kjata

Been having weird idle issues. Seems like the bike is struggling to maintain a constant idle. It'll begin to slow down until the bike gives a burst to keep it going, but eventually it will just stall.
 
I finally got it on video:
[video src=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6sgZkhCW0I]
 
What makes this issue weird is, I finally made it home and the bike stalled upon parking it. Fired it back up and took my phone out to get some more videos of it happened and it was fine. Held a constant, healthy idle for like 10 minutes and didn't stall once. So here's some things that are on my mind:
 
-Someone on reddit said it's possible my battery is going. That's a possibility.
 
-Someone on another forum said his PCV needed it's settings tweaked.
 
-It's possible I need to use fuel injector cleaner.
 
Part of me thinks this is fuel related so I'm leaning towards that.
 
Just some misc information that you may find useful about my bike:
2015 model
Akrapovic Carbon Fiber Exhaust
PCV installed
Had an issue with the 02 sensor before, was replaced
I fill up with 93 regularly
I don't believe there to be any moisture in the gas tank as the air leaving the exhaust is dry
 
Thanks in advance to anyone who reads this.
 
***EDIT SOLVED. SOLUTION BELOW***
 
I befriended a motorcycle technician who was certified in Suzy, Kawi, and Yamaha. Bringing the bike to him, he automatically suspected something was up with tune and the map that was inside the power commander. He opened up the power commander with his iphone to take a look at the map inside. No map found. No problem though, as the dealership probably plugged the custom map and tune straight into my ECU. He reset the voltage on the TPS, as it was running a little high, but assured me that it was ok.
 
He recommended I buy the dynojet autotune module for now. As for a temporary fix the autotune module would probably correct whatever issue the bike was having. Upon installing and testing, he found the bike to be running ridiculously rich. So rich, that my O2 sensor was completely black with soot and grime. Keep in mind, I had the bike for under 2 years and just under 2000 miles. So I barely was riding it.
 
He installed the module and did some riding, as I guess the autotune kinda learns the drivers behavior. Holy Shet. The bike is totally different. It PULLS at low speeds. It's like a missile. I feel like I'm on a FZ09. So far, in the little time riding I had before we got destroyed with snow again, I haven't noticed the rpms dip once, nor struggle at all.
 
Read more: http://fz07.org/thread/6315/inconsistent-idle-stalls-occasionally-stopped?page=1#ixzz4bXdTGpfx
 
 

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Simbadc650

oh hellll noooooo. take it in!!!! bring it back to Yamaha! squeaky sound. sounds like ur hamster on the wheel dying!

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caliesv

Is that your fan kicking on?

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Guest Ralph

Disconnect the PCV and see it it runs right then,
no use taking it back to the dealer if it's something
to do with mods you have done, on the other hand if
the mods were done by a dealer take it back to them.

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jerryv

No error codes? How much mileage?

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kjata

Yeah that's the fan lol. Mileage a little over 1000.

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rick

Considering how well this thing runs on 87 octane, not sure why anything more than 89 would be necessary. As they add stuff/gallon to slow combustion, there's far less stuff to burn/gallon when you get all the way to 93. 
 
Are you buying gasoline from small stations and did this start to happen after a fill-up. Maybe you just have a bad tankful of gas.
 
At 1k miles, hard to imagine needing to clean injectors - though Tecron is magical stuff sometimes.
 
Check to make sure the new O2 sensor is properly plugged in. Why did the 1st one fail? They are usually pretty reliable bits.
 
Agree with Ralph - see what happens with the PCV removed. Can't tell you how many times we've heard of these things causing more trouble than they are worth. Best way to fix the mapping is to remap instead of adding more complexity to the mix. .

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Guest ChicagoAJ

Did you get the first service done and have the throttle bodies synced (or sync them yourself)? This is definitely a symptom of them being out of sync. If it runs fine at higher rpms that might be the culprit.

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kjata
Did you get the first service done and have the throttle bodies synced (or sync them yourself)? This is definitely a symptom of them being out of sync. If it runs fine at higher rpms that might be the culprit.
I'm thinking this is a potential culprit. I did go for the first service and they said they did all of that shit, but there's a possibility they didn't.  
It's also worth mentioning I started noticing this shit when I blew a couple of fuses trying to install a tail tidy. I took it to my local guy and he took care of the fuses and replaced some wiring that got screwed.
 

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Guest ChicagoAJ
Did you get the first service done and have the throttle bodies synced (or sync them yourself)? This is definitely a symptom of them being out of sync. If it runs fine at higher rpms that might be the culprit.
I'm thinking this is a potential culprit. I did go for the first service and they said they did all of that shet, but there's a possibility they didn't.  
It's also worth mentioning I started noticing this shet when I blew a couple of fuses trying to install a tail tidy. I took it to my local guy and he took care of the fuses and replaced some wiring that got screwed.

If that's the case it sounds like you might have an electrical issue if that's exactly when this problem appeared. 

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Guest Ralph

Ha the plot thickens, disconnect the earth go have a coffee reconnect and see if that helps
check the sensor on the back of the cylinder block is connected properly. look for any loos
or damaged wiring or connectors.

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norcal616

Check and make sure the PCV has the right map installed also..


2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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kjata

OK I'll try all of this stuff. Thanks a lot fellas. I'll report my findings.
 
Might have to take it to my guy to look at the map because I don't know how to do any of that.

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hordboy

Make sure the O2 sensor is plugged into the little black box Dynojet provides, and the box is plugged into the harness. (ie, the box goes inline with the O2 wiring) If the O2 sensor is not plugged in, it causes idle weirdness. Also if the map has big fuel % changes in the ECO mode areas, it causes weirdness.


J.D. Hord
 

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rick

While yer getting yer nose up close and personal, if they really did check sync, make sure they put the plug back on the vacuum port for the right side TB and the hose back onto the similar port for the left TB.

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kjata

Update! Just met with a local friend who is very knowledgeable with bike maintenance.
 
So we gave her a cold start. I remarked that this problem doesn't happen all the time and it probably will appear all fine and dandy. Fired her up and it started off with it's bullshit right away. We discussed all of the modifications the bike had and everything done to it. He narrowed it down to three things.
 
1st: Possibly spark plugs
2nd: ECU flash might have something to do with it.
3rd: PCV as we had already surmised earlier on this thread. While the bike ran there was a weird fume that could be smelt in the air. He remarked that I could be running very lean.
 
So we're going to start off small and try diagnosing things to get to the bottom of this. If all else fails, we're going to bring it back to the dealer to see if their mechanics can figure it out.
 
I'll keep those who are interested posted and if a resolution is found, I'll post that too, in case this happens to anyone else. Thanks for all the feedback everyone!

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kjata

Sorry about necro bumping this but I tried a bunch of things and things only have gotten worse I'll recap.
 
I brought the bike to the dealer who installed the akra carbon, k&n air filter, pcv, dyno'd the bike, installed custom map and flashed the ECU. For 2 months they couldn't figure out what the problem was so I took it back and tried to fix it myself.
 
On reddit a member suggested that I should remove the power commander because it's probably fighting against the ECU and is causing this problem. So I done so today. That seemed to make the idle more erratic so I reinstalled it and tried disconnecting the o2 sensor. I also raised the idle a bit to compensate for the low idle and prevent any stalling.
 
So now I'm idling a little higher around 1.5k to 1.7k and I now have the check engine light on with the code 5d_37
 
Which is something to do with Idle Speed Control.
 
I'm running out of ideas here. Next week I'm going to try and get a general map from power commanders website and put that in and see what happens. But if that doesn't work then I have absolutely no idea on what to do.
 
Should I revert back to bone stock? Reflash the ECU? I don't know.. would lowering the idle fix the problem with the error code? Need guidance.

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KamelReds

At this point I would be looking at taking one mod off at a time until it stops or you make it all the way back to stock.
 
If the issue persists when it's totally stock, take it back to the dealer.
 
Good luck!

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It's all about keeping that rubber side down.

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rick

As the ecu controls idle speed, how were you able to raise the idle ? I'm also a bit surprised that a Yamaha dealer would modify the map on a bike still under warranty.
 
Idle speed is "mechanically" controlled by the air idle control valve. It sits between the throttle bodies Although they are usually quite reliable, if that's what that error code refers to, then you might need to replace that part.

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kjata
As the ecu controls idle speed, how were you able to raise the idle ? I'm also a bit surprised that a Yamaha dealer would modify the map on a bike still under warranty.  
Idle speed is "mechanically" controlled by the air idle control valve. It sits between the throttle bodies Although they are usually quite reliable, if that's what that error code refers to, then you might need to replace that part.
We have the throttle clamped with it very slightly open that way I could make it home without it stalling on me. I should've chose my choice of wording more carefully in my response. The idle wasn't raised, but the throttle is very slightly open.  
When I reinstalled the PCV I noticed there were two cables on the unit that I didn't know where to put them. The PCV has the two white connectors that are fed all the way to the front-left side. Then 4 cables that attach to the spark plugs, then 4 that attach to each fuel injector. Then there was a white one and black one remaining. I combed through the inside  and could not find one thing that they attach to.
 
Maybe one is supposed to attach to the gas tank and the other is supposed to attach to what would have attached to the tank if I didn't have a PCV? Not sure. Going to have to check on that next Sunday. There's like no fuckin' videos of people installing this damn thing on the FZ-07 anywhere. Russian Rider has a video of the Dobeck EJK, but that has like 10000 less connectors the PCV has.
 
I do plan on reverting the throttle to fully closed next time I crack it open.
 
Oh it's worth mentioning that I noticed two cables got close to the fan and the fan completely cut them in half. It was a slender red and black cable. The dealer told me that my horn suddenly stopped working and they didn't know why. Came to find out that's why. Stripped the cables, twined them back together, electrical taped them back up and voila, the horn works. I'm trying to avoid going back to the dealer as much as possible because I'm a little weary of the work that they do and the professionalism that is continuously absent from them.
 

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Beemer

Well, at least you have the dealership problem squared away now so back to the idling problem. You mentioned something about your guy and wires and since your problem seems to be so hard to detect I can't help but wonder if there's a wiring problem since they are sometimes hard to track and pin-point. I've had wires short out sporadically on me before and they can be a real pita so I can't help but wonder about the wires that were messed with when the problem started. I'm probably wrong about that but you have to check everything, right? GL!
 
Hey, just a thought but has anyone simply checked the spark plug wire's connection, pipe sucking in too much air somewhere maybe???
That tank sticker is highly suspect! Ha!  ;)


Beemer

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rick

I asked cause I was afraid you changed the throttle stop screw - that would have been a big mistake as the throttle plates need to be completely closed at idle. So, good, that's easy to put back and most likely why the error code. The ecu is recognizing the air at idle is wrong.
 
An air leak with an FI-ed motor usually results in a higher than normal idle.
 
Maybe one of those spare pct wires goes to a ground somewhere, but the other, likely not. Hard to imagine that there should be wires just dangling. You are gonna have to remove the tank and trace everything they did. As for the PCV, well, I'm not a fan of these kind of devices. You'd be far better off w/o the piggyback bandaids and sending the ecu off to get it professionally flashed - imho.

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kjata
Well, at least you have the dealership problem squared away now so back to the idling problem. You mentioned something about your guy and wires and since your problem seems to be so hard to detect I can't help but wonder if there's a wiring problem since they are sometimes hard to track and pin-point. I've had wires short out sporadically on me before and they can be a real pita so I can't help but wonder about the wires that were messed with when the problem started. I'm probably wrong about that but you have to check everything, right? GL! 
Hey, just a thought but has anyone simply checked the spark plug wire's connection, pipe sucking in too much air somewhere maybe???
That tank sticker is highly suspect! Ha!  ;)
Yeah now that you mention it, early in the year I installed the Motodynamic tail tidy but had blew a fuse and I think I had a couple of wires rubbing against each other that shouldn't have. So I had no horn and no signals.  
Started the bike up the next day to bring to him and the idle was all over the place without even touching the throttle. So I managed to get it to him safely and he replaced the fuse and said he cleaned up the wires a bit. He might have had to replace a wire. When I picked it up from everything was normal. Idle was fine. But after this date, that's when I started noticing the inconsistent idle problem. The dealership suggested this could be an electrical problem too but didn't know where to begin, if this could be electrical at all, or a wild goose chase. So that's a potential lead, but with that I don't even know where to begin fixing that.
 
 
 

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rick

Think you have an intermittent short somewhere. I'd start with the wiring issues when this 1all st started - at the back. Then I would seek out installation instructions for that pcv and then expose all of the wiring/connctions associated with it. That will likely require removing the fuel tank. Yer about to be well acquainted with your motorcycle.

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Beemer
Well, at least you have the dealership problem squared away now so back to the idling problem. You mentioned something about your guy and wires and since your problem seems to be so hard to detect I can't help but wonder if there's a wiring problem since they are sometimes hard to track and pin-point. I've had wires short out sporadically on me before and they can be a real pita so I can't help but wonder about the wires that were messed with when the problem started. I'm probably wrong about that but you have to check everything, right? GL! 
Hey, just a thought but has anyone simply checked the spark plug wire's connection, pipe sucking in too much air somewhere maybe???
That tank sticker is highly suspect! Ha!  ;)
Yeah now that you mention it, early in the year I installed the Motodynamic tail tidy but had blew a fuse and I think I had a couple of wires rubbing against each other that shouldn't have. So I had no horn and no signals.  
Started the bike up the next day to bring to him and the idle was all over the place without even touching the throttle. So I managed to get it to him safely and he replaced the fuse and said he cleaned up the wires a bit. He might have had to replace a wire. When I picked it up from everything was normal. Idle was fine. But after this date, that's when I started noticing the inconsistent idle problem. The dealership suggested this could be an electrical problem too but didn't know where to begin, if this could be electrical at all, or a wild goose chase. So that's a potential lead, but with that I don't even know where to begin fixing that.
 
 

The dealership didn't know where to begin after you told them which wires were worked with??? Is your last name Plague? Yeah, don't go to them anymore. If you don't know how to use a volt meter you can easily learn and check wires for inconsistency yourself but first you can simply look at those wires (the ones you mentioned) and check to see if any of the metal is exposed and touching the frame. If so, replace or patch up but do a good job whatever you do and then test the bike. Be sure to look under the wires and check that the insulation is in tact and not exposing any of the wire itself. If it is a wiring problem the source is most likely where it was fiddled with if it was alright before then. "Didn't know where to begin", ha! Sounds to me like they don't want to mess with it if it's under warranty because they don't want to possibly be putting in a lot of hours tracking down a wiring problem for nothing.

Beemer

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