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pgeldz

MWR vs DNA air filter...DYNO TESTED!!!

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hamster
Thanks! Noted for future upgrade!
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Safe riding!

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sansnombre
Great info. Thanks.
 
What's most intriguing to me from this info is the testing with stock vs. snorkel out. There has been LOTS of discussion on this site about how much, if any, is gained from removing it. This is solid info that out is better.
 
The only other question is snorkel out vs. "snorkel cut" to remove inner sleeve that blocks so much flow. I know with the snorkel cut, the sound is much quieter and I believe we remove the majority of the restriction from the snorkel. But it's likely more flow with it completely out, and esp with the DNA smoothed cover.
 
Thanks again for this write-up.

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pgeldz
Great info. Thanks. 
What's most intriguing to me from this info is the testing with stock vs. snorkel out. There has been LOTS of discussion on this site about how much, if any, is gained from removing it. This is solid info that out is better.
 
The only other question is snorkel out vs. "snorkel cut" to remove inner sleeve that blocks so much flow. I know with the snorkel cut, the sound is much quieter and I believe we remove the majority of the restriction from the snorkel. But it's likely more flow with it completely out, and esp with the DNA smoothed cover.
 
Thanks again for this write-up.
 
 
 
No worries. Glad I could be of some help. I've heard that removing the snorkel entirely leaves a very abrupt edge/lip for airflow entry into the airbox which disrupts flow, and removing just the inner part leaves it a bit smoother. Not sure which is better as I didn't test that, but that's probably why the DNA cover has the radius lip to promote smoother airflow into the airbox.
 
I sent these results to MWR and they think the airbox is just too small overalll. They may be developing another solution for us to see if we can extract even more power. I told them I'd be happy to test it for them if they develop something :)
 
- Paulie
 
 

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markstertt
I wonder if the air box is too small or is it just the opening in the air box is to small? Before removing my stock box for Hords, I measured the available space for a flat, top filter assy. I determined (roughly) that I could probably open the top up to 4"x 7" to accommodate a 3/4 " thick foam filter using my own home made frame. Reduce that dimension slightly for a radiused lip. My thought was to call Bracket aircraft filters to see if they would supply me with their fine preoiled foam in my dimension, if not then one of theirs large enough for me to cut to size. This would allow those wanting to keep the stock box and long intake runners to have better performance with a good filter.
 
If you're not familiar with Bracket filters, you buy their assy. once (for aircraft) and then from then on just replace the element with their preoiled foam. I use to be an aircraft mech. so I would save the used Bracket foam, clean and oil it and then use it as a prefilter in the hole opened up in the top of my DRZ400's air box. It is so effective that I rarely have to clean the main filter even though the Bracket foam is much coarser than typical m/c foam filters and offers no noticeable reduction in performance. However, it doesn't last forever and for aircraft never cleaned and reused, for my DRZ it's good for a few years with several cleanings.
 
However, once I installed the Hord box I lost interest in this exercise, especially after seeing what it takes to remove the stock box, to much work to switch back and forth just for comparison...maybe someday.
 
Good work on your filter comparison, it just proves that there are some extra ponies hiding in their.

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pgeldz
I wonder if the air box is too small or is it just the opening in the air box is to small? Before removing my stock box for Hords, I measured the available space for a flat, top filter assy. I determined (roughly) that I could probably open the top up to 4"x 7" to accommodate a 3/4 " thick foam filter using my own home made frame. Reduce that dimension slightly for a radiused lip. My thought was to call Bracket aircraft filters to see if they would supply me with their fine preoiled foam in my dimension, if not then one of theirs large enough for me to cut to size. This would allow those wanting to keep the stock box and long intake runners to have better performance with a good filter.  
If you're not familiar with Bracket filters, you buy their assy. once (for aircraft) and then from then on just replace the element with their preoiled foam. I use to be an aircraft mech. so I would save the used Bracket foam, clean and oil it and then use it as a prefilter in the hole opened up in the top of my DRZ400's air box. It is so effective that I rarely have to clean the main filter even though the Bracket foam is much coarser than typical m/c foam filters and offers no noticeable reduction in performance. However, it doesn't last forever and for aircraft never cleaned and reused, for my DRZ it's good for a few years with several cleanings.
 
However, once I installed the Hord box I lost interest in this exercise, especially after seeing what it takes to remove the stock box, to much work to switch back and forth just for comparison...maybe someday.
 
Good work on your filter comparison, it just proves that there are some extra ponies hiding in their.
 
I think the opening is just too small...
 
I sent my findings to MWR and they agreed the opening is too small.  They said they might come up with a power up kit (replacement airbox perhaps?).
 
Time will tell.  For now though, at least I can say the MWR filter is a worthwhile upgrade as far as replacement filters go :)
 
- Paulie
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rowdy
Thanks @pgeldz ! So to do the mod, you need the DNA cover and MWR filter correct? Any idea how these would work at altitude (4600')?
Also, do you have a preferred source for those particular parts?

Why can't left turners see us?

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pgeldz
Thanks @pgeldz ! So to do the mod, you need the DNA cover and MWR filter correct? Any idea how these would work at altitude (4600')? Also, do you have a preferred source for those particular parts?
No problem @rowdy !
 
Yes, so far, it looks like the DNA cover and MWR filter is one of the best combos out there without actually removing the airbox.
 
But it depends on the powerband you want.  If you look at the dyno charts from the cover/filter combo, and compare them to Hordpowers' replacement airbox solution, it looks like the cover/filter combo gives you a ton of midrange (where street riders spend most of their time), and the Hordpower solution gives you a ton of top end (where racers spend most of their time).
 
Hopefully if MWR comes up with a "Power Up" Kit it will do both...we can only hope :)
 
As for where to get this stuff...
 
As far as I know, you have to get the DNA Cover direct from them, as they don't have any US distributors.
 
The MWR Filters are available through BellissiMoto.  We are the US Distributor for MWR.
 
:)
 
I hope to finish the bike by this weekend and go for a ride with the MWR filter and new tune.  Only things I have left are the slipper clutch, ceramic bearing shift arm, rear suspension link, and Spiegler brake lines.
 
To be honest though, I really don't think I'll notice a difference between a .5 to 1.0 HP gain.  The HealTech quickshifter and Yoyodyne slipper clutch though...now that's a different story...I'm looking forward to noticing those!
 
;)
 
- Paulie
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markstertt
Thanks for response, indeed compared to stock it is a worthwhile swap. Actually the Hord is not all top end, it has more torque and hp right through the entire stock powerband and you will definitely notice the approximately 10 hp extra (with ex. and tune as you have), you won't have to think about it, it pulls hard in all gears.
 
Now what I do find very interesting are your next mods, the QS, slipper clutch and the ceramic bearing shift arm. Is the shift arm you'
re referring to the internal shifter arm? Can't wait to hear what you think about these mods after testing...keep up the good work...Mark

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pgeldz
Thanks for response, indeed compared to stock it is a worthwhile swap. Actually the Hord is not all top end, it has more torque and hp right through the entire stock powerband and you will definitely notice the approximately 10 hp extra (with ex. and tune as you have), you won't have to think about it, it pulls hard in all gears. 
Now what I do find very interesting are your next mods, the QS, slipper clutch and the ceramic bearing shift arm. Is the shift arm you'
re referring to the internal shifter arm? Can't wait to hear what you think about these mods after testing...keep up the good work...Mark
 
@markster ,
 
I didn't say the Hordpower is all top end, I said it gives a ton of top end :)
 
From the dyno charts I've seen, both solutions give great gains over the stock set up all throughout the rev range, but the BEST gains with the Hordpower design that Iv'e seen are biased toward the upper rev range, and the BEST gains I've seen with the cover/filter combo is more biased in the midrange. You can see what I mean here:
 
Hordpower Airbox:
FZ-07Airbox1-01.jpg?m=1455290039
 
 
 
Cover/Filter combo:
 
ZiKu4eEh.jpg
 
 
 
Yes, both solutions give great gains everywhere, but I think my statement still stands :)
 
 
As for the shifter arm, yes, it's the internal one, sometimes known as the shift detent arm. The stock one has a metal bushing on the end of it, and the new one has a ceramic bearing instead. It's supposed to prevent false neutrals and enable quicker shifts by x amount of miliseconds. I never had the false neutral issue, but if it does make shifts better I didn't think it could hurt when using the quickshifter :)
 
Here's what it looks like...stock on left, ceramic bearing version on right.
 
9y9AwKUh.jpg
 
:)
 
- Paulie

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rowdy
Thanks for response, indeed compared to stock it is a worthwhile swap. Actually the Hord is not all top end, it has more torque and hp right through the entire stock powerband and you will definitely notice the approximately 10 hp extra (with ex. and tune as you have), you won't have to think about it, it pulls hard in all gears. 
Now what I do find very interesting are your next mods, the QS, slipper clutch and the ceramic bearing shift arm. Is the shift arm you'
re referring to the internal shifter arm? Can't wait to hear what you think about these mods after testing...keep up the good work...Mark
I ordered the DNA cover and MWR filter. :) Now, I probably need a PCV to get the most out of it. :(
 
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Why can't left turners see us?

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markstertt
Paulie, I like what you've done testing wise, if I didn't have so many projects (most non motorcycle related) I'd like to mod the stock box, it's just that it's not real straight forward because of the tops irregularities, if it were flat all across it would be easier. However, it's a real pain getting the stock box in and out and once the Hord went in, well, it runs so well I lost interest. But from what Hord found on the dyno, those pursuing an inexpensive & real boost to low/midrange need to keep the stock box with it's long intake runners and go to the trouble of opening up the top and designing a decent non-restrictive air filter assy. Followed by a tune of course.
 
Thanks for the picture of the shift detent arm, where can I get one please? Mark
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markstertt
Paulie, I like what you've done testing wise, if I didn't have so many projects (most non motorcycle related) I'd like to mod the stock box, it's just that it's not real straight forward because of the tops irregularities, if it were flat all across it would be easier. However, it's a real pain getting the stock box in and out and once the Hord went in, well, it runs so well I lost interest. But from what Hord found on the dyno, those pursuing an inexpensive & real boost to low/midrange need to keep the stock box with it's long intake runners and go to the trouble of opening up the top and designing a decent non-restrictive air filter assy. Followed by a tune of course. 
Thanks for the picture of the shift detent arm, where can I get one please? Mark
Rowdy, yes I believe so, I'm not sure how the PCV supplied maps compare to Hordpowers maps but it would appear that a big part of making good power with this engine is not just FI tuning but also better ignition mapping. Follow catfish's posts on his adventures with the tuning of his -07 and you'll learn a lot about the state of the ecu flashing and where it stands at the moment vs. other methods. It's only going to get better. 

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pgeldz
Paulie, I like what you've done testing wise, if I didn't have so many projects (most non motorcycle related) I'd like to mod the stock box, it's just that it's not real straight forward because of the tops irregularities, if it were flat all across it would be easier. However, it's a real pain getting the stock box in and out and once the Hord went in, well, it runs so well I lost interest. But from what Hord found on the dyno, those pursuing an inexpensive & real boost to low/midrange need to keep the stock box with it's long intake runners and go to the trouble of opening up the top and designing a decent non-restrictive air filter assy. Followed by a tune of course. 
Thanks for the picture of the shift detent arm, where can I get one please? Mark
 
 
 
Thanks for the kind words Mark. I've sent my results to MWR and they agree that the airbox opening is just too small on our bikes.  Although the filter/cover combo works very good, I think they are going to develop a "Power Up Kit" for our bikes, which will most likely involve opening up the airbox a little bit. Well see.
 
As for the ceramic bearing shift arm, I got mine form Andy at AP Motoarts, but if he is out of stock, you can get them here:
 
Factory Pro FZ-07 Hybrid Ceramic Bearing Shift Arm
 
 
:)
 
- Paulie

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markstertt
Power Up Kit- that will be interesting to see what they come up with. Thanks for info on the shifter detent arm, Factory Pro was the name I couldn't remember...Mark
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