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peteinpa

Fork spacer for more preload?

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peteinpa

Haven't found where anyone tried a spacer in the forks to increase preload.  I just want to firm up the braking nose dive. You can also add oil to decrease the air volume at the same time.
 
I find the general suspension action fine for PA roads. Rear preload on # 7. Haven't touched a peg yet but almost zero chicken strips. 
 
 


Got new red 2015 FZ-07 on 7/22/16!
Black 2006 Honda ST1300 53K miles.

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bmwpowere36m3

It's already got 16 mm or so... can you add more, sure. Would I, no. It's not just springs, but low speed damping. Thicker oil would help, but high speed already sucks and would suck harder.
 
Air spring, maybe. However I think their too soft earlier in the stroke. I would spend at least the dollars on a GVE and springs if you care at all. TD kit goes for $350 or so with springs... not bad.

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gregjet

Fork: springs and better damping ( eg GVE's etc)
Rear: With the preload set at 7, the already poor rebound damping will be at the point of extremely "iffy". The shocks are severly underdamped. New shocks.
The front and rear suspension is THE most cost effective change you can make on this bike to making it a better ( and safer) bike. IMHO
 


Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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twotone

Cogent DDC drop in valves.
It's been established here that stock fork springs
Are substantial ie .87 kg/mm. The soft feel up front is the lack of damping. But stronger springs will depend on weight of rider.

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gregjet

I had a look at the Cogent Dynamics pages. Doesn't seem to be much info.
Can I assume you have used them.
How do they perform and how do they get around the undersized compression hole problem in the MT/FZ? Is it by useing a lighter vis oil and then modding the rebound.
I do like the simple structure but non adjustable worries me a bit. Yes, I know you can change the oil vis but the ratio between the existing holes and the valves will stay the same.
Interested to hear your response.
They don't mention the 07 in their models but there isn't a lot of info ( newish site?)
 


Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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c0al67

traxxion dynamics kit comes with new pre drilled damper rods for the emulators. 300 bucks. comes with springs for your weight, emulators, and damper rods. i'd use 15 weight oil (used 10 in mine and now i gotta take the darn things off again and go with 15 as 10 is a bit soft).

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twf

New hole affect rebound, not compression. And that is only when oil lock piece is removed. With oil lock piece in there you have hydraulic lock and don't get there.
Not sure what fork that picture is from but on FZ07 even stock upper hole will be past seal if you compress it like that with no oil in it.
 
 
 
 
 

  With the GVE there is absolutely zero testing besides you and if you have ever installed a GVE and modified the damper rod have you looked to where the new drilled holes are at when the fork is bottomed out? The new holes will be above the oil lock so at the end of the stroke there is zero compression damping. If needed I have pics of this to show what I am referring to. That is why Traxxion made there rods with bigger holes but fewer and they eliminated that issue with the GVE mod instructions with their damper rods.
 
Nah not a new site Rick has been around a long time and very easy to talk to and he does like to talk, Very informative and knowledgeable.
 
Anyway I think that answers the questions you had but if anymore let me hear them and I will do my best to answer them.
 
Terry
 
Edit: Ahh what the heck I will post the image anyway.
 
Race Tech damper rod mod method. Yes the bottom out cone (oil lock) is installed and bolt torqued to 15.6 lbs/ft just as would be installed.
rt_emulator_damper_rod_mod.jpg
 
Traxxion Dynamics replacement damper rod.
traxxion_emulator_damper_rod_mod.jpg

 

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twf

Traxxion damper rods also come with a new lo speed bleed base (1) .125" hole rather then the (2) .125" holes on the GVE as delivered from Race Tech. Traxxion also places the rebound hole higher on the damper rod then would OEM and last time I purchased them they included new topout springs. If you are going to stick with the GVE then the Traxxion damper rods would be the way to go.
They put it higher because they usually use shorter top out spring. Stock rods are fine with hole where it is, seal never gets over it even if you would collapse top out spring. 
 

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twf

Here is stock rod with fork bottomed out. Since there is no oil to stop it from going all the way down hole is exposed.
On race bikes we usually take out oil lock piece so this hole becomes problem with rebound.
 
IMG_2061_zpsjhert6i3.jpg
 
This is little rebound hole, even with top out spring. That spring will coil bind at about 9mm. Seal is 10mm inside so it never crosses hole.
 
IMG_2062_zpstzspgh0o.jpg

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peteinpa

Well this thread blew up.
I'm not looking to spend $$$ or $$$$. I'm not going racing, just looking for an improvement.
 
When I get and mount my centerstand I'll be trying a spacer.
 
Been through a few bikes in my years and never bought new suspension upgrades and been perfectly happy. Done spacers and change fork oil weights though.


Got new red 2015 FZ-07 on 7/22/16!
Black 2006 Honda ST1300 53K miles.

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pattonme

I'm not going to get into the middle of this cat fight, but let's remember the OP started from a premise that he wanted to reduce dive. I just did that for @2wheeler via thicker oil (130cc Bel-ray 20w + ~350cc of Bel-ray 7w) which approximates 40cSt@40 and cut the spring spacer back to 143+2mm vs 150, and swapped in 0.9's for his 200 lb weight.
 
GVE, Traxxion GVE, DDC, Ricor Intiminator are all fine products with various limitations and strengths. Let's have that discussion somewhere else, eh? Then we can debate the various $300 fixes vs cartridges for +100 money. :)

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Guest 2wheeler
I'm not going to get into the middle of this cat fight, but let's remember the OP started from a premise that he wanted to reduce dive. I just did that for @2wheeler via thicker oil (130cc Bel-ray 20w + ~350cc of Bel-ray 7w) which approximates 40cSt@40 and cut the spring spacer back to 143+2mm vs 150, and swapped in 0.9's for his 200 lb weight. 
GVE, Traxxion GVE, DDC, Ricor Intiminator are all fine products with various limitations and strengths. Let's have that discussion somewhere else, eh? Then we can debate the various $300 fixes vs cartridges for +100 money. :)
I just got back from a 100 mile ride on the new front end, and I have to say that I am amazed at how much better those forks are! Bumps, potholes and crappy road in general are way better. Nose dive isn't nose dive anymore - it's the forks compressing as they should when you come to a stop using your front brakes. As I have never riden a FZ-07 with cartridges, I can't make a comparison, but I can say that heavier springs, heavier oil, and the changes pattonme made to the spacer make the forks a heck of a lot better than stock. 

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twotone
Well this thread blew up. I'm not looking to spend $$$ or $$$$. I'm not going racing, just looking for an improvement.
 
When I get and mount my centerstand I'll be trying a spacer.
 
Been through a few bikes in my years and never bought new suspension upgrades and been perfectly happy. Done spacers and change fork oil weights though.
 
Yes it did blow up into a technical thread, but bare in mind that a few knowledgable and experienced people were pointing you to the real draw back of the forks ie the weak damping system.
 
You didn't state what you weigh, that will determine if your current springs are sufficient or not, proper sag needs to be considered when setting preload.
In the above example .9kg Spring is only .03 heavier than standard so the rider is likely feeling the difference in oil thickness, one mans great ride is another's horror story, we have different perceptions.
 
Just $190 will get you DDC's and oil, cut the spacer to set preload and your done, you'll have a well controlled forks at a budget price.

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peteinpa

Well I just did it. I had some sched. 40 one inch pvc lying around and made two 1/2 inch tall spacers and installed them. Firmed the front end right up. MUCH less nose dive while braking. 1/2 inch might be too much for lighter people.
 
It did take some force to screw on the caps.
 
BEST PART: COST WAS ZERO $$

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Got new red 2015 FZ-07 on 7/22/16!
Black 2006 Honda ST1300 53K miles.

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sansnombre
traxxion dynamics kit comes with new pre drilled damper rods for the emulators. 300 bucks. comes with springs for your weight, emulators, and damper rods. i'd use 15 weight oil (used 10 in mine and now i gotta take the darn things off again and go with 15 as 10 is a bit soft).
Can I how much you weigh and what you were feeling that made you think you need 15? Instability at speed? Too quick rebound? 

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c0al67
traxxion dynamics kit comes with new pre drilled damper rods for the emulators. 300 bucks. comes with springs for your weight, emulators, and damper rods. i'd use 15 weight oil (used 10 in mine and now i gotta take the darn things off again and go with 15 as 10 is a bit soft).
Can I how much you weigh and what you were feeling that made you think you need 15? Instability at speed? Too quick rebound?
It's just a tad soft compression wise and rebound. Not bad at all, I'm actually at the track right now between sessions and it's been awesome all day.
Edit: I'm 200lbs with my gear on

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peteinpa

I'm still enjoying my half inch spacers. Works fine with 7 preload on the rear.
I'm 6' 2" and 330 lbs.
Still haven't touched a peg feeler but no chicken strips,handles great.
Have 2500 miles on already.
Poor ST1300 just sits now.

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Got new red 2015 FZ-07 on 7/22/16!
Black 2006 Honda ST1300 53K miles.

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mcbrien

I made up some spacers .400 thousandths tall like it. I weigh 185lbs.

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godoy.rafa
On 9/2/2016 at 6:26 PM, peteinpa said:

Well I just did it. I had some sched. 40 one inch pvc lying around and made two 1/2 inch tall spacers and installed them. Firmed the front end right up. MUCH less nose dive while braking. 1/2 inch might be too much for lighter people.
 
It did take some force to screw on the caps.
 
BEST PART: COST WAS ZERO $$

Is PCV strong enough? Did you have to lift the front to remove the caps?

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peteinpa

yep, it's strong enough. you'll need to get the front wheel off the ground.


Got new red 2015 FZ-07 on 7/22/16!
Black 2006 Honda ST1300 53K miles.

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Liquidmetal

Glad this thread was resurrected.  Sounds like something I would want to pursue, especially when it seems so easy to do.


Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

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Liquidmetal
1 hour ago, peteinpa said:

yep, it's strong enough. you'll need to get the front wheel off the ground.

 

Did you put a washer between the spacer and the spring or does the PVC spacer rest directly on the spring?  Never having taken the FZ's forks apart before, not sure what else I might need if/when I go to do this.


Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.

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peteinpa

Nope, just the PVC.


Got new red 2015 FZ-07 on 7/22/16!
Black 2006 Honda ST1300 53K miles.

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r1limited

I like old school, PVC would be a choice, so would nylon spacers.  Back in the day when 3 inches of travel was like OMG the shet, stuffing a few washers in at the track was the norm.


“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.” --Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria

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Terry_b

Old thread, but I'll add to it if possible. It's been confusing digging through these suspension threads since a lot of the complaints are in regard to the earlier models. Mine is a 2018 with Yamaha's "revised" suspension. I've noticed on a couple of my usual streets particularly littered with pot holes and patches that the bike will start to feel a bit unsettled, like it just couldn't manage the terrain. Besides that, my biggest complaint is the front dive and a bit of bucking when slowing and accelerating.

My plan is to change the oil for Maxima 15W, which is at 47 cSt@40. I have some 10W I may try mix in for a bit lower cSt as well. According to also the different calculators, I'm in between .85 and .90 for springs, which means realistically I should be perfectly fine on stock springs.

I do plan on using some large diameter washers to fine tune the preload, as I've had success with that method in the past. The eBay adjusters just feel too risky for me, and I can't justify the cost of the name brands. 

 

@pattonme can you explain this a bit more without divulging trade secrets? Is this a longer or shorter spacer than stick?

Quote

cut the spring spacer back to 143+2mm vs 150

 

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