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zoltan

Remapping ECU vs Power commander

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zoltan
First of all I'm completely novice on this matter. Sorry if I sound silly.
What is the difference between remapping ECU and installing a power commander. Eventually, both of them do the same thing. Or no?
...
Let's say if I install a new exhaust and an air filter do I need remapping the ECU or a power commander will do? Or they are completely different?
What is the advantage disadvantage one over the other?
 
 

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Beemer
From what I've read and understand about both of them and I don't know if this is what you're looking for but you can pay a one time price to have your ECU flashed with 2 Wheel Dynoworks and have it adjusted as much as you want after that at no extra cost but would have to pay through the nose for a dyno test every time with a power commander. A lot of people, myself included, opted for a Dobeck EJK which you can adjust yourself on the fly, any time, anywhere to adjust for new engine performance parts or different altitudes. The ECU flash might not be as convenient as an EJK but more adjustments are done with it to improve performance over an EJK. I'm happy with my EJK but I would probably be happier with a ECU Flash.
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Beemer

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dentalprodigy
This was helpful for me to understand the differences...

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zoltan
Thank you guys now I can see more clearly. The only question is if I flash the ECU will I loose the warranty?

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Beemer
Thank you guys now I can see more clearly. The only question is if I flash the ECU will I loose the warranty?
From what I've read it doesn't. If anything went wrong with your bike they would have to prove that an ECU flash was the cause of the problem. 
On a side note, the guy in the video said the fuel programmer was more labor intensive because you had to take your fuel tank off but others and myself didn't have to. That's due to hand/finger size and dexterity and not everyone is the same so it could be an easy job for you like it was me. The tank is just labor intensive, not hard to do.
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Beemer

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ddog
@zoltan I have both the ecu reflash and EJK. I recommend the ecu reflash.

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Guest ChicagoAJ
Thank you guys now I can see more clearly. The only question is if I flash the ECU will I loose the warranty?
If you get it flashed from @2wheeldynoworks , they offer unlimited flashes for life (for the ECU you got flashed) once you purchase the flash from them. That means you'll always be able to ship your ECU back to them to flash for extra mods you buy (or take off). If something breaks on your bike and you're worried about it not being covered under warranty because of the flash, just send the ECU back to them and have them flash the stock map back. Then take the bike in and when you get everything handled, ship the ECU back to get it reflashed.  
Chances are if something does break on your bike it'll happen after the measly 1 year warranty anyway (unless you purchased the extended warranty).
 
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zoltan
Is it worth flashing a full OEM bike? Or better to wait till an exhaust and an air filter is fitted?
 

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norcal616
With what I know now...first thing I would do is upgrade suspension then get the ECU reflashed...might and day difference doing each one...them 2 things really let the fz-07 shine even better...
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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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ddog
Is it worth flashing a full OEM bike? Or better to wait till an exhaust and an air filter is fitted?
 
If you believe there will be any sort of decent span of time between now and when you do your first performance mod, I would suggest the reflash on stock; especially if you plan on doing your suspension next and need to save for it (which I would recommend as a second step). Personally I felt the most change in the ride from the ecu over any other mod, with the rear shock upgrade as a close second. It was an amazing transformation that I wished I had done sooner. Plus there is a 4th of July sale for the flash so it's a great time to buy!

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zoltan
Is it worth flashing a full OEM bike? Or better to wait till an exhaust and an air filter is fitted?
If you believe there will be any sort of decent span of time between now and when you do your first performance mod, I would suggest the reflash on stock; especially if you plan on doing your suspension next and need to save for it (which I would recommend as a second step). Personally I felt the most change in the ride from the ecu over any other mod, with the rear shock upgrade as a close second. It was an amazing transformation that I wished I had done sooner. Plus there is a 4th of July sale for the flash so it's a great time to buy!
 
 
The upgrade I've been thinking of is suspension (ohlins), exhaust (akra) + airfilet. So, Im better off if i start saving.
 
I also planned to fit bazzaz but now I more drawn to ECU flashing. But is it a stupid idea to get a power commander after I got ECU reflashed? More specifically bazzaz z-afm (self mapping thing)
 
Or just send back my ECU for remapping if I get an exhaust and an air filter?
 
Mind you I live in UK. Here we don't have that deal what 2wheelydynoworks offer. Every time I want to remap my ECU will cost me around £300.

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2wheeldynoworks
I also planned to fit bazzaz but now I more drawn to ECU flashing. But is it a stupid idea to get a power commander after I got ECU reflashed? More specifically bazzaz z-afm (self mapping thing)
 
Or just send back my ECU for remapping if I get an exhaust and an air filter?
 
Mind you I live in UK. Here we don't have that deal what 2wheelydynoworks offer. Every time I want to remap my ECU will cost me around £300.
So, just a few basics to help clarify. A fuel controller like power commander, bazzaz, dobeck etc, only changes fuel delivery, or double the cost to include ignition mapping.  
ECU flash, changes fuel delivery as well as a dozen other things as well that when combined all tuned up, create a bike that just fueling can't even come close to touching in terms of performance, ride-ability, adjustability and overall changes. We're able to change all of the factory settings, remove software restrictions, change all of the mapping for everything, in each power mode, fan temps etc, way more than just the fueling. 
 
Even with the auto tune, which bazzaz and power commander offers, it's still only fixing one out of over a dozen things that need to be changed to get your bike running perfectly.
 
When stock, it absolutely is still worth it, as again, all of the ride-ability changes make it so much smoother. 
 
As far as being in the UK is concerned, we have customers all over the world, we ship from australia, africa, south pacific, taiwan, china, all over europe etc. To the UK, it's about $40 to ship the ecu. I'm not sure much that is in euros or pounds as that seems to be fluctuating as of late but, definitely not $300! 
 
As to your last question about adding a fuel programmer in conjunction with the flash, it's not necessary until you change your exhaust from whatever we flash it for, to something else. Depending on how much you can purchase a fuel programmer for, you can ship your ecu 3-4 times for the same cost so unless you foresee many exhaust changes, it comes down to what's more important to you, time or money. you'll save money just paying for shipping for the free ecu upgrade down the road compared to a $250-$800 (autotune) fuel programmer with autotune etc. On the flip side it takes usually 4-5 days each way shipping so, that's the time part of it. 
 
Also, you will not need to reflash for air filter changes. Just exhausts. 
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zoltan
Wow...I didn't know that you're shipping all over the word.
 
Probably, when I go on a holiday I will contact you guys.
 
Thank you very much.

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bigdaddybane
Thank you guys now I can see more clearly. The only question is if I flash the ECU will I loose the warranty?
It depends where you live. Here in Canada, any ECU modification will automatically void the warranty ... confirmed with 3 different Yamaha dealers in Toronto. I was also told that even a regular ECU diagnostic check will reveal ECU flash, there is no way of hiding it. Btw, I'm planning to do it but only when my warranty expires.  

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Guest ChicagoAJ
Thank you guys now I can see more clearly. The only question is if I flash the ECU will I loose the warranty?
It depends where you live. Here in Canada, any ECU modification will automatically void the warranty ... confirmed with 3 different Yamaha dealers in Toronto. I was also told that even a regular ECU diagnostic check will reveal ECU flash, there is no way of hiding it. Btw, I'm planning to do it but only when my warranty expires.  
Only if the bike has the flash currently on it. There's no way to see that it was flashed and flashed back to stock unless they go through every single line of code the ECU has written since it was flashed back to stock. Even then they would only see there was a point were the data just randomly started. Once you put an ECU in a bike and start the bike one time - it's something like hundreds of lines of diagnostic data is written almost immediately. Dealers don't have the type of computer equipment to access every part of the ECU itself to prove anything was flashed or reflashed back to stock. One you flash over to a different map - the previous one is simply gone. Any normal plug and play diagnostic device will simply give the name of the map/tune. The stock tune is probably something like Yam-001 or whatever iteration Yamaha called their maps. So anything that's different than that would come back as a voided warranty. But if you flash back to stock before bringing your bike it, you'll be fine.  
Some ECUs actually have a flash counter (mainly Subarus) - but I've not seen one when plugging this into any of the computer equipment that tuners around here have when shopping around for tunes (I ultimately went with 2WDW and my ECU is on the way to them now). 
 
They're only telling you a reflash will void the warranty because that's the easiest escape route when it comes to warranty claims. Every dealer will say the same thing unless you get a cool shop manager who doesn't care about those upgrades (but if you blow your motor - Yamaha themselves will look into the claim, they won't for smaller claims though). 

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zoltan
Thank you guys now I can see more clearly. The only question is if I flash the ECU will I loose the warranty?
It depends where you live. Here in Canada, any ECU modification will automatically void the warranty ... confirmed with 3 different Yamaha dealers in Toronto. I was also told that even a regular ECU diagnostic check will reveal ECU flash, there is no way of hiding it. Btw, I'm planning to do it but only when my warranty expires.  
 
 
 
Thanks. I've read about it a bit more and here in the UK is the same. But I've found something on car chip tuning website but probably the same implies for motorbikes.
 
I gonna quote it: The diagnostic equipment in most dealership garages is not sophisticated enough to check ECU software for discrepancies between it and the original software. A dealership will not find any fault codes if they plug in a diagnostic tool. However, if for example your head gasket has blown and your OEM faces a costly warranty repair, they may send your ECU off for further analysis. In 99% of cases, this further analysis will uncover your remap, and your OEM will have grounds to flat-out refuse to repair your car under warranty.
 
And
 
Hyperchips and other tuning companies can return your ECU to normal (i.e. the way it was before it was altered) to minimise the risk of your OEM checking that your car has been tuned. But this is not fool proof. Your OEM may still be able to see that your ECU has been altered if they have advanced diagnostic equipment.

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zoltan
It depends where you live. Here in Canada, any ECU modification will automatically void the warranty ... confirmed with 3 different Yamaha dealers in Toronto. I was also told that even a regular ECU diagnostic check will reveal ECU flash, there is no way of hiding it. Btw, I'm planning to do it but only when my warranty expires.  
Only if the bike has the flash currently on it. There's no way to see that it was flashed and flashed back to stock unless they go through every single line of code the ECU has written since it was flashed back to stock. Even then they would only see there was a point were the data just randomly started. Once you put an ECU in a bike and start the bike one time - it's something like hundreds of lines of diagnostic data is written almost immediately. Dealers don't have the type of computer equipment to access every part of the ECU itself to prove anything was flashed or reflashed back to stock. One you flash over to a different map - the previous one is simply gone. Any normal plug and play diagnostic device will simply give the name of the map/tune. The stock tune is probably something like Yam-001 or whatever iteration Yamaha called their maps. So anything that's different than that would come back as a voided warranty. But if you flash back to stock before bringing your bike it, you'll be fine.  
Some ECUs actually have a flash counter (mainly Subarus) - but I've not seen one when plugging this into any of the computer equipment that tuners around here have when shopping around for tunes (I ultimately went with 2WDW and my ECU is on the way to them now). 
 
They're only telling you a reflash will void the warranty because that's the easiest escape route when it comes to warranty claims. Every dealer will say the same thing unless you get a cool shop manager who doesn't care about those upgrades (but if you blow your motor - Yamaha themselves will look into the claim, they won't for smaller claims though). 
 
 
Thank you for the insight. I think I'll go for it. I can't wait two years

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Guest ChicagoAJ
Like I said, it's highly unlikely they'll be able to tell an ECU was flashed and then returned to stock unless the ECU had a flash counter. Even the flash counters aren't fool proof if the map didn't load correctly from the factory.

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bigdaddybane
Like I said, it's highly unlikely they'll be able to tell an ECU was flashed and then returned to stock unless the ECU had a flash counter. Even the flash counters aren't fool proof if the map didn't load correctly from the factory.
It's a bit absurd and reason why I don't want to do it right now. If something goes wrong with my bike, before going for a repair I need to send the ECU for stock remapping. After Yamaha is done I need to send ECU back again for another flash. Meanwhile, in this process I would lose precious 2-3 weeks of riding time considering I live outside of US.     

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Guest ChicagoAJ
Like I said, it's highly unlikely they'll be able to tell an ECU was flashed and then returned to stock unless the ECU had a flash counter. Even the flash counters aren't fool proof if the map didn't load correctly from the factory.
It's a bit absurd and reason why I don't want to do it right now. If something goes wrong with my bike, before going for a repair I need to send the ECU for stock remapping. After Yamaha is done I need to send ECU back again for another flash. Meanwhile, in this process I would lose precious 2-3 weeks of riding time considering I live outside of US.     
Better than paying $1500+ for a new motor or other catastrophic failure. Gotta pay to play (or in this case wait to play, lol). Chances are if your bike broke and you needed something major done it would take months to get it back up and running. I've seen people's bikes at the dealer for a few weeks for something as small as a sensor that should only take a half hour to swap out. 

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bigdaddybane
It's a bit absurd and reason why I don't want to do it right now. If something goes wrong with my bike, before going for a repair I need to send the ECU for stock remapping. After Yamaha is done I need to send ECU back again for another flash. Meanwhile, in this process I would lose precious 2-3 weeks of riding time considering I live outside of US.     
Better than paying $1500+ for a new motor or other catastrophic failure. Gotta pay to play (or in this case wait to play, lol). Chances are if your bike broke and you needed something major done it would take months to get it back up and running. I've seen people's bikes at the dealer for a few weeks for something as small as a sensor that should only take a half hour to swap out. 
I would rather option for a secondary ECU and flash that one, keeping the stock one in the garage just in case ... used ECU's go for approximately $350 USD.

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Guest ChicagoAJ
Better than paying $1500+ for a new motor or other catastrophic failure. Gotta pay to play (or in this case wait to play, lol). Chances are if your bike broke and you needed something major done it would take months to get it back up and running. I've seen people's bikes at the dealer for a few weeks for something as small as a sensor that should only take a half hour to swap out. 
I would rather option for a secondary ECU and flash that one, keeping the stock one in the garage just in case ... used ECU's go for approximately $350 USD.
Someone has one on here he was trying to get rid of for like $225. Go that route then.  
 
http://fz07.org/thread/4183/brand-new-ecu-4sale

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Beemer
Thank you guys now I can see more clearly. The only question is if I flash the ECU will I loose the warranty?
It depends where you live. Here in Canada, any ECU modification will automatically void the warranty ... confirmed with 3 different Yamaha dealers in Toronto. I was also told that even a regular ECU diagnostic check will reveal ECU flash, there is no way of hiding it. Btw, I'm planning to do it but only when my warranty expires.  
Even so, the warranty is for only 1 yr. so you don't have to wait too awfully long and hopefully no one opts for any extended warranty for most are a waste of money, according to most experts in that field. They say if anything is going to go wrong because of a factory defect it will most likely do it within the first year of having the product, not the years following. Just passing that info along, trash it if you please.

Beemer

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zoltan
It depends where you live. Here in Canada, any ECU modification will automatically void the warranty ... confirmed with 3 different Yamaha dealers in Toronto. I was also told that even a regular ECU diagnostic check will reveal ECU flash, there is no way of hiding it. Btw, I'm planning to do it but only when my warranty expires.  
Even so, the warranty is for only 1 yr. so you don't have to wait too awfully long and hopefully no one opts for any extended warranty for most are a waste of money, according to most experts in that field. They say if anything is going to go wrong because of a factory defect it will most likely do it within the first year of having the product, not the years following. Just passing that info along, trash it if you please.
 
 
Here in the UK I've got 2 years. That's good. But in this case it's bad

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Beemer
Even so, the warranty is for only 1 yr. so you don't have to wait too awfully long and hopefully no one opts for any extended warranty for most are a waste of money, according to most experts in that field. They say if anything is going to go wrong because of a factory defect it will most likely do it within the first year of having the product, not the years following. Just passing that info along, trash it if you please.
Here in the UK I've got 2 years. That's good. But in this case it's bad
Whaaaaat?!! Two years?! Are we dogs over here? (I'm laughing as I say this) Why I wonder.

Beemer

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