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catfish

FZ07 Tuning Adventures: Akra-Ti, Hordpower airbox, PCV, etc.

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5tonfan

Just have to keep an eye on this fun.

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Mr.Puss

I have a hordfilter on order and man I gotta say all of this tech talk is ridiculously confusing. I will have it dyno'd after install. Currently I have a Dobeck EJK, a Yoshi exhaust and have disconnectd the o2 sensor.
 
Are you guys recommending leaving the o2 sensor connected with the hordfilter for the dyno or no?
 
Should I have the ECU flashed or is it unecessary? There has been mention of possibly reflashing the EJK as well or is it unnecessary?  Does anyone have experience with this filter system along with an EJK?
 
I suppose the dyno guys would know what the proper config might be with my current configuration, I dunno. I just cant wrap my head around it.
 
Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 


Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.          Fuss Life.

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gregjet

A proper reflash should do a few desirable things besides just give you a correct air/fuel ( eg spark timing, closed throttle changes, limiters, top gear limiters etc). Talk to you fave reflasher.


Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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lovakhan

Im looking into this as well. But ive seen comments on how it wouldnt be ideal in rain? I ride in the rain so would this not be an option? Or are there solutions to this?

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catfish
I have a hordfilter on order and man I gotta say all of this tech talk is ridiculously confusing. I will have it dyno'd after install. Currently I have a Dobeck EJK, a Yoshi exhaust and have disconnectd the o2 sensor.  
Are you guys recommending leaving the o2 sensor connected with the hordfilter for the dyno or no?
 
Should I have the ECU flashed or is it unecessary? There has been mention of possibly reflashing the EJK as well or is it unnecessary?  Does anyone have experience with this filter system along with an EJK?
 
I suppose the dyno guys would know what the proper config might be with my current configuration, I dunno. I just cant wrap my head around it.
 
Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Dyno-tuning your FZ07 with the EJK should correct the fuel maps for the increased air flow, but it does NOT give you the timing changes that the PCV or ecu-reflash can get you also. I'd guess almost half the 10-12 Hp increase we see is from the timing improvements.
 
Its your choice as to how much more money you want to spent. If you really want everything that airbox can deliver & with what is currently available to you; I'd recommend selling the EJK, buy the PCV, and then have it dyno tuned.
 
None of the current re-flashers can actually disable the O2 sensor AND ECO Mode correctly, so no I do not recommend any of them. And YES you should reconnect your O2 sensor to the ECU & hope it still works. Yamaha FZ07 mapping does WEIRD things in ECO Mode when the O2 sensor is disconnected.
 
Its the FZ07 ECO Mode that must be disabled ALSO to prevent other weird fuel-table bias trickery. I'll get into this in more detail in the next postings.
 
I'm currently inquiring with Woolich Racing about their new FZ07 tuning product. They claim to have exposed more map tables that FT-ECU, disabled O2 sensor, and make all ecu data available to view & log DURING tuning!!! So think of this product as a PCV & re-flasher in one package. Kinda like the TuneECU & TuneBoy we use on other motos.
 
 
Good luck,
 
Catfish ...
 
 

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catfish
Im looking into this as well. But ive seen comments on how it wouldnt be ideal in rain? I ride in the rain so would this not be an option? Or are there solutions to this?
There are two kinds of people in this world; (1) those who figure stuff out, and (2) those who make stuff up. Yours & others' water fears fall into category (2), not (1).
 
My hordpower airbox has worked great in the rain on the street & at a track day. No issues whatsoever.
 
Test, get data, & PROVE your position ... rather than make stuff up or propagate others stated fears. That is the only real solution.
 
So ... lets ONLY talk about tuning & results here. OK?
 
Catfish ...
 
 
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catfish

Speaking of track days ...
 
ztTc5j6eLfIZNRMsSSlBN3g11G9_aXnsftuW95a8IrJJVYJLOXNH6tLMQ18DqOv59wuNa-m31Vzf8Z-sGXjGm4lP71mIGDnxQQrcRN9FzYnKhT-XPY34yCLAc4Isd2rGEryTC0wbNEKGqmL4tLsFeKAyZhsrPoMsEGq7VrnUH3J_nJWhIc9VwWQ-6-0tLfQsSTz7wMGAoa_j5HF869B5A0iIZn3A63ANgxIVOMNjea_kKFZuFzcGINnI-uC1D0uxON3Am9zGAjjUhhj1X4lOpRcxCYfT6qKQaruBc3gBCF5Rz8CfAKkEDY_bB_0KhHv5FvaWZNj5SU-MVRAGedeoNau4U9FShO2JhKheDHn1bp0i8_nUn3MD8MQkpmJRTy1YXdwgiV_RJ8YIllDwkGC7NKMAinRyuf9WLFdrvIjVpCzmFax08KJw22erPyoZNtjUE0WravAL_cvlirnQsBcX-yYsP--8YRp_lZ_t5yZ411z5TPYm_0qRZIByrdSYwC79AR0gBmxCiWOjIdMS1M-TMXk2fjQRQ_-ULY0vjPp0hMrV81rV4U9IrEkbIfjK63zr0fm-dsFy55e6BojRUncZ24LsF1CJx_o=w610-h917-no
 
At Sonoma in February (Akra-Ti with oem mapping);
[video src=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SctpWM5F_V4]
 
 
They only allow Aerostich Santa's in the Green Group ©, which are only allowed pass on the outside with a 6ft gap. Those pesky instructors in the blue jerseys are hard to pass on the outside! ;-)
 
The Ridge in Shelton, WA (Hordpower airbox, akra-ti, & dyno-tuned)
 
[video src=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJzDP9V3y1A]
 
 
Tomorrow, we'll start into _my_ tuning adventures.
 
Catfish ...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Mr.Puss
I have a hordfilter on order and man I gotta say all of this tech talk is ridiculously confusing. I will have it dyno'd after install. Currently I have a Dobeck EJK, a Yoshi exhaust and have disconnectd the o2 sensor.  
Are you guys recommending leaving the o2 sensor connected with the hordfilter for the dyno or no?
 
Should I have the ECU flashed or is it unecessary? There has been mention of possibly reflashing the EJK as well or is it unnecessary?  Does anyone have experience with this filter system along with an EJK?
 
I suppose the dyno guys would know what the proper config might be with my current configuration, I dunno. I just cant wrap my head around it.
 
Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Dyno-tuning your FZ07 with the EJK should correct the fuel maps for the increased air flow, but it does NOT give you the timing changes that the PCV or ecu-reflash can get you also. I'd guess almost half the 10-12 Hp increase we see is from the timing improvements. 
Its your choice as to how much more money you want to spent. If you really want everything that airbox can deliver & with what is currently available to you; I'd recommend selling the EJK, buy the PCV, and then have it dyno tuned.
 
None of the current re-flashers can actually disable the O2 sensor AND ECO Mode correctly, so no I do not recommend any of them. And YES you should reconnect your O2 sensor to the ECU & hope it still works. Yamaha FZ07 mapping does WEIRD things in ECO Mode when the O2 sensor is disconnected.
 
Its the FZ07 ECO Mode that must be disabled ALSO to prevent other weird fuel-table bias trickery. I'll get into this in more detail in the next postings.
 
I'm currently inquiring with Woolich Racing about their new FZ07 tuning product. They claim to have exposed more map tables that FT-ECU, disabled O2 sensor, and make all ecu data available to view & log DURING tuning!!! So think of this product as a PCV & re-flasher in one package. Kinda like the TuneECU & TuneBoy we use on other motos.
 
 
Good luck,
 
Catfish ...
 

Hey Catfish,  
I bit the bullet and bought the PCV and HordPower has sent their map. The airbox and the PCV sure wasnt cheap since Im up in Canada, but what the hell, its only money, besides it's a unique and uber cool piece of kit for the bike. Im like a kid at Xmas waiting for this thing to show in the mail.
Hord mentioned they're waiting on some updates for their ?tuner? at which point hopefully  they can proceed with work on possibly streamlining a proper flash for us. Curious as to what we'll see happen for this airbox down the road. Those possible tweaks opened by Woolich sound promising. Thanks for diving deep into this for all of us.
 
I appreciate you taking the time explain this stuff to help me get a bit closer to understanding what does what, and what is and isnt necessary while running this airbox system.  This tuning business all sounds like very intricate work, like picking fly sheit out of pepper; I lack the appropriate tweezers. 
 
Once again thanks for the invaluable info. Hordpower and a few others here have also been instrumental.  I feel pretty confident now Im not going to thrash my motor from having this airbox running improperly.
Stay safe out there!
 
Regards.
 
 

Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.          Fuss Life.

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lovakhan

I met w pat at 2wdw. Ill be grabbing one of those hord boxes soon. He said something along the same lines as you @catfish. Haha. Appreciate all this good info. I told them im willing to have them do thier test runs on my bike since im so close. Good runs btw. I got to check this track out, see how far it is

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catfish
Hey Catfish,  
I bit the bullet and bought the PCV and HordPower has sent their map. The airbox and the PCV sure wasnt cheap since Im up in Canada, but what the hell, its only money, besides it's a unique and uber cool piece of kit for the bike. Im like a kid at Xmas waiting for this thing to show in the mail.
Hord mentioned they're waiting on some updates for their ?tuner? at which point hopefully  they can proceed with work on possibly streamlining a proper flash for us. Curious as to what we'll see happen for this airbox down the road. Those possible tweaks opened by Woolich sound promising. Thanks for diving deep into this for all of us.
 
...
 
Once again thanks for the invaluable info. Hordpower and a few others here have also been instrumental.  I feel pretty confident now Im not going to thrash my motor from having this airbox running improperly.
Stay safe out there!
 
Regards.
 

 
Good move! I suspect it will run so much better with JD's PCV map (Same exhaust, right), you won't need to dyno-tune yours!
 
Don't worry about the airbox vs. oem mapping. If you look back at my last dyno plot, the RED trace is hordpower airbox with akra-ti, and OEM mapping. A little hp is lost up to 6k rpm (lean), but above 7k the RICH base map makes MORE power. Not optimal, but not dangerous for the motor at all.
 
Good luck & as a favorite grrrl racer used to say, "Tits to the tank if you want to keep the front tire on the ground!" ;-)
 
Catfish ...
 
 
 

I met w pat at 2wdw. Ill be grabbing one of those hord boxes soon. He said something along the same lines as you @catfish . Haha. Appreciate all this good info. I told them im willing to have them do thier test runs on my bike since im so close. Good runs btw. I got to check this track out, see how far it is
They do good work when they have the moto to tune. ALWAYS run premium fuel with their reflashes though. The ignition tables of the FT-ECU FZ07 unrestricted base-map are TOO aggressive at low rpm for regular-grade fuel & street use. IMHO.
 
The Ridge is a FANTASTIC track to learn! A healthy, well-setup FZ07 makes a GREAT track bike!!! :-)
 
Good luck with yours!
 
Catfish ...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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catfish

So, lets step back to last winter when I decided I wanted an Akra-Ti exhaust on my 07. I'm accustom to making intake/exhaust changes & then dyno-tuning my motos. The differences from stock can be pretty dramatic & usually better! Bought & installed the exhaust. Pulled the snorkle on the oem airbox & tested. It ran a little better & I could hear an intake growl now.
 
Looked at my tuning options, I considered these; FT-ECU re-flash with a dyno tuner, buy FT-ECU & tune myself, & buy a PCV and dyno tune.
 
I tried a reflasher, but as luck would have it, they had not seen an akra-ti on an 07 yet to dyno-tune. I asked for a different map that what was recommended & shipped.
 
6th gear, 2-5k rpms, throttle at 25-100%, she PINGED LOUDLY!!! Out that ECU came & shipped back. I asked in email for a discussion BEFORE the next re-flash. I was going to ask AGAIN for a specific map, or back to oem. They did not call & re-flashed with just the FTECU-FZ07 unrestricted base map. It still pinged AGAIN, but not quite as bad.
 
2 ecu shippings, re-flashes, & weeks go by, and I still had a pinging 07. I was not pleased & my window of time I could be without an ECU was GONE!!! Grrr... I asked for my money back from the reflasher and eventually they did.
 
I ordered the FT-ECU on-bike harness & license and re-loaded the oem mapping into my ECU. That's how it was for the February track day.
 
Since I had FT-ECU & could see the oem vs unrestricted map tables, I compared them to see if I could figure out why the unrestricted base map PINGED at low rpm in my 07 & the oem didn't. The fuel & MAP-sensor tables had no changes from oem. None. Where I did find changes was the TPS/MAP bias table. This table shows how to blend the TPS & MAP fuel tables to work with varying loads. The oem table looks like this;
 
Well crap! apparently I must upload images elsewhere & point this thread to there. Grrr... I'll be back with table photos in a bit.
 
Catfish ...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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catfish

 
 
OEM TPS/MAP Bias Table
 
IwOpMhy8nAGnKTyR3RnEad08rk9hUig5wYI1rqtb_ODYi9nfNhamN8A-fIYkIWjiBzSxYcqTbl7OzzHRLsbHKuUlSlcXsx8v3xKMHNOQyJ7t7cMkVGJ3foU81y1RggeHORm3IPAADCVxNNAIHLbRHNBL36Vd3oY05xH_aX2CR_DcPxBTY2Bi53yU91N5oT97_LnzCjkOn57rmkHnj8ivZAUsIkRIjDunhPD53b7yXv4TCyNrGHdjfELBp2pmLA-iZzEofRtorp7TpznS7_ahex4AbQSi6jFOHMsxG1rrP65So2rekIr4A3lJwVUSTP_fFksu18WIE777z2bVQP0SURwkd-gbey3Hs0nOcVwjwTUMOyiVVlZF6h_6sv40h_ThNPjiap8kZD53_JGdqBOoTU7713LPgQbYAZ8elzWE3sDtlv0DomP0sOoW7Izvj0Wk0Oku563EQ-U0a_WPzEyAwL_cWgbILBhc4Jt8xQdLC6TMnsyUR_bG_0A4fBSdR-b_8I3lLrXORCTHauX4o5qcN5zpEOy_fB96fo9YInHCuFy8MEL7cmQNcVWHbrn46r5dp0_5vJrtAXTUku_LZ0VITuA4y9gY1Vc=w1348-h878-no
 
Unrestricted TPS/MAP Bias Table
PUGiFXqGhabE2g-OWZZGDJDn_D3IhTri-bB3BrdSGMa6icCxj6E4pXJ-CS1nCatJBjr2dKktQuUPWFqmgqZ0n6pooc2Rgbbzpr_F-TgplWGNclcWv3HyXghYFszSVSRC0GFmLh35ST9VKdbg--wCBoAvaaZjPXg8ubt_bOzAcovjfNBN-8_wNpqG9zoCq_x0o8vMSQD2gluqjA5Y5FlI_Sx-ugcldNZcOv8Uk6SpKu1O1RFT5N8U22Smd0Mng95vSQiNFNbArHa0pcFaQHzHQRWREuxAXqeFe2eww_zSD0anyE0p-VDx7TfQ0dPBI3Ylb_-_m7gPwQ-fB6MkqbtfXlPBzC8ZBeQwNXSiBLQ5vdOxb32gGt6f1ZdceKwshDrsbtA9hyykObv4WtVRiLomeUOpc0-lQfa3yoOJK7rYO3Yu5a5IBhogPt04GUVr-U8ukHUgLwZrOpj8m8s5mjzMwnb2JlItxkQhaeQR2_y2gNKiKCa3Tqvg6T6siAN8KQITIM67ETqGM3WEj_xt6CABIqnjERbKt62Qvsxh-l1pZaCoHJ7gzHhUFX4M52GYXRUbOEhjsLJ5FqwCEZO95jf3Tb0pboEDL1s=w1199-h875-no
 
 
Notice how different they are. The oem table blends a lot of MAP sensor in the bias at low throttle & mid rpms. this is done to take varying loads into account that can occur at the same rpm & throttle position, but via difference tranny gears & hill slope. The unrestricted table looks like someone made some "philosophical" changes, NOT measured on a dyno. Most tuners do some of this because all they are really going to tune is the TPS fuel tables, not the MAP fuel tables. Hmmm ...
 
During my later actual dyno-tuning with a PCV, I tried a ZERO bias table to remove all MAP input to fuel control. It seemed fine on the dyno, but road testing afterwards at low-mid rpms & 25-50% throttle showed poorer running than oem. WTF?!? I returned the bias table to oem & it ran way better under those stated conditions, although it was not on the dyno at the time to prove what I felt. 2nd gear wheelie height via same rpm & throttle is a pretty good comparison.
 
The oem TPS/Map Bias table needs to be left as stock for street use. The unrestricted bias table is really only good for near 100% throttle or track use.
 
The naughty ignition tables are next!
 
Catfish ...
 
 

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catfish

There are 14 ignition tables used in the 07 ECU! 1 for each cylinder vs. 6 gears & neutral.
 
Here is what the oem, 1st cylinder. 3rd gear ignition table looks like;
vvHfJKiS4ukYl4fz_k0vZH7dvRphaeT2psBhIyxWAfli1jeln07mQlJPAU2JX7MKsQ6wAH_W68MNyrtO8g7kI0hyJ8HDbxiFVC2g4BnGnezXzApia7EC1lp4kbQ5_d_HmBXkQxTDFvv_-yqy_KMkqwq9ecZnlRyJEYMczz4zxD9BNkI30y-tWfFgPWrot6MUME1D_ex7fJ_EnImSQCCyvJwWbj_xfXxPuCpjW2SXmfEg1BTY7KsAxsSAzV8hUHBR0G5d44qP0iDTr9ZtYlIoMbxIBTZ9cgQRyDQMJjmRxQPdlOXq16gwUDXXp4hlNyz-0xxxaXSksCOClUg1V6Fv7y7rnL7gT4d-1SuxlmI_WaAUf0Weh7_ls_Mmf_WJLxuWkmFuSIb2Z0aUwUdvFjlRtvaKxKE7QatjRcL08ageGV7ZXG9Dlu38f_fFqWf2RcmC2wLExhT7KfGN2zM-u-fBQiLnpdkA-dDvTJsSllEjlQKwkuqvR0JdfhOoyTU7qPKpUnlyNsGaROJaA7qqBo9yBG_izi5HjvJP_e2H85iJN5t7tSff_JIK6q2bszgoZSZb4y8XLBVwRunAzTrwnkNPLvYIyB8U3OA=w807-h803-no
Notice how the advance is reduced from 1300-3500rpm vs. TPS of 29-88% because the motor is very efficient there. Needs very little burn time.
 
Here is what the UNRESTRICTED, 1st cylinder. 3rd gear ignition table looks like;
bI2k9ip69BzyK413-xmq5AK2Y4cZq1o4Wdh1sQq1ijBfiT7_BWSSRjQASiZengeOm5uOpDNoP7WNZ1fe8je6vYowlXIXt78s1TMjk9hyEdYuDuyUv_yEvFhozCMJOtaxl6t_okyvZXS6KVCYzR4fcbEMGJLDevVjdOo1BGQpGhbRIY_kO9JVs5d2_z6c7kfuh6hgnSshvbBRyhckbmUih_6LWeunTUH5bAEnU8ALpHX7NEVne-roUS2SheTyG1GJqUyZd1GoglF1z4UmwZrEXYAVLZa62iMvfeH-4Z0MnVfsMBtIIwdmjKbjnvuzqPi5KH2P8tfVEriUwSlCsKaZwembgf9ZZlJJ4JO9gYzQ6MLyxPKkDYhS8dJDNKbzR_9LXpdTnCBK3mD3RA2ZCxDxGlbAjid6xAoAHNnBeIQ2UA8JuDZ3rxzxo19cGUSgkdRwlhYeOnOvuspafyqe4xsq2zuFbw074R_0LY_cS__9He_LVJJTBHr-1P9UutP2UwNp3R-ZXARLYCfXrrjrsCGNmcQbTBAD0iB49xBT26XJolQpmAKUkNPHwbnTskB-moU8pLCuUOMwteNmQHnid4-Z8gzDo8wZmhc=w798-h796-no
WOW, here are a bunch of philosophical changes again that were NOT verified on a dyno!
 
Adding 2-8 degrees at low rpm is NOT good for smooth throttle response. In 3rd gear, you will need premium gas to not ping.
 
Now, lets look at the 2 versions of 6th gear;
 
OEM, cylinder 1, 6th gear
0PHU4hg4MyGMztSXJkOBurdanX3wPqZoO8O6Esy5zqNOkTnK4khguG8i-bjdsPHnDPgnwWqYZ_LHCt5w0uIPXf7U5U0H0gpzR0uvV6kMBh278Sx9HNV7c1kR5LE7STHjy6VRI4_j1hguENI64nIh-DXtI58AFVcEsMLGiZtsbhAf4CQ9l_EQb5i1IFmHC8eZTNTnIN3X0or19uhmKnOBx_li3fDFGrK6SudwrOnBq_Kg1IXKomIrO86m48Y5-2hkwOtGe9Kt4X2F2tRtgb0PSXaKnWKA33kULjPvv67NXcYC8ZZxLtpSrfTO0RBU8ZKG20_XPmXVpyFSxmF9NkIH2fEEXhbKolbfPnXYfnl6y-tfVLlEhCxNdoLLdybH4h1bV1g1BREuRG4Gw7cSo0CnRbDouO01Bb1YaBCuJeI8gnBVkYeyp-1mfskQ13VKrBgY6ydmG3rx0XOUXHv8NIJyaq8K4lh_pLUin3TQA5x-mXN7vcWt2sGKuwJG-bSXx-5WslGeUfpPy2zs-5bsV2tTBZxJ6cTnwveI56LX19EafL0MODpRklddh8MuICcZ3umMc4Rwc6_AdscPBy5k5-bR75Jvf3fPkjI=w791-h799-no
Notice how the high-efficient area drops the advance down to ZERO to prevent pinging where the motor can not accelerate against the load in 6th gear.
 
Now look at the UNRESTRICTED, 1st cylinder, 6th gear ignition table;
NR8XjicGFmVmPZRdykVL-bAQfzAeIbF__h62fP6Yb99RnZN079fZCd2RRhCJy5T4Txt16WfIoLRobPBo9Mn3wsbjogCStV80vFsb4tEmH1RkTGtlsGzAXrldbt-EpdEcdJk6qjlPa83BG5koWHVGt0AgySIUc2qftsJ3ChSaXU6HWNRGzYycb-2qYWms6599mDerThiXdZssupEN8xlHMVy7C0mbAkuz2L_Te3Y5eCyF7TwgqYX4evrvvoN7Co-H2tIZE6aqWutVdaMJAXPVpsvUnt7BMMp80FUGkQb5z1mLRRQ3e3Ivgn_ssnNPOpU1ZEJYlk0DYxhbw5SNvOX3X8dqWeCDmWMjmXsV4Jp8-9VFuDQX_yPOFGhkBwLF1ESX1S0NiggmrknUWDPTSbv53Su8tHBv9r6RCRH1MjjnAuxROyse6YA-8wnibphosCEQIt8JJYjjmFUoYYDkBIucd7Z1aunxeQVnCuuW2RxD8EROaY90N3Q8g0Auen-H-E9uSPOm5Yx3uEYmKBGcbRNwh_E0nwZ1UwQDWDkPYFYRsydkYMUyshXhYc4nr62L7f7k2VpKoULUfl9r5CW_T_rBcnlMVidoJCU=w789-h796-no
OMFG, they added 7 to 15 degrees more advance where the motor is MOST likely to ping. Like I said, CLUELESS philisophical changes that were NOT tested on a dyno!!!
 
This is the reason that my 07 pinged LOUDLY with those re-flashed maps with regular fuel. Its the reason YOUR FT-ECU re-flashed 07 probably pings there too on premium if your re-flasher used the unrestricted map as shown.
 
 
Next I learned you can not VIEW & TUNE anything in FT-ECU. it is simply a poorly-functioning re-flasher that does NOT give you access to all of the tables in your ECU. Grrr...
 
So, the only way to actually tune an 07 conveniently on a dyno or the road was with a PCV.
 
That's the NEXT adventure!
 
Catfish ...
 
 
 
 
 

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Mr.Puss

...I'll just have to take your word for it catfish... o_O

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Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.          Fuss Life.

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norcal616

I'm taking notes in case professor catfish gives us a pop quiz

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2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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markstertt

Thanks catfish, this is really good stuff, I'm running JDs air box, PCV and maps and the bike runs great and I think most people would be happy and just leave it at that...but I'll be following this closely, very interesting and informative...Mark

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hordboy

Catfish and I have had some interesting email discussions about the FZ-07's ECU and what we were seeing with road data logging.  Sometimes our data agreed, sometimes it disagreed, and therein lies the answer to some of the yet unlocked mysteries in the ECU.  Actually they are not mysteries, they are just still locked up.  ;)  They will get sorted in due time.
 

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J.D. Hord
 

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sorkyah

Bookmarked...
nerd/engineer in me wants to see more maps,
biker in me wants to see more power,
Hooligan in me wants to see the world burn...
 

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ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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bmwpowere36m3

So who did the initial re-flash on your bike @catfish ? What's an "unrestricted" map? I would have assumed the tuner would start with the factory maps and modify them.

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bmwpowere36m3

Ughhh... I think I know the answer and it's not what I want to hear.

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markstertt
Ughhh... I think I know the answer and it's not what I want to hear.
Yeah, I think I do also but unless you're a catfish or a Hord type you believe and spend your money. Luckily, I reserved one of Hord's first air boxes with the understanding that sooner or later there would be a flash for the ecu for my configuration, stock eng. with Yosh ex., but once I got the air box I didn't have the patience so I ordered  a PCV from Hord with his maps for his early set up when his engine was stock (but with the Yosh exhaust) with the added benefit of his later per gear mapping. I believe that for the time being this is probably the best set up for our bikes with Hords filter assy. I now have about 450-500 miles on my bike since adding the air box and PCV and it's been flawless and has a great all around enhanced power band, gets good mileage, still uses 87 oct. and is dyno proven. Pretty much fit and forget for those of us who like to do that. 
With catfish's involvement and Hords continuing research on this ecu issue (and others from what catfish posted), it shouldn't be to long before it's completely figured out and maybe the ultimate FI/Ign module is available for the -07's.
 
Thanks again catfish for sharing this info and please continue to update us with your findings.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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sansnombre

@catfish
 
I've just read the whole thread and find it very interesting, but I do have a question: the O2 sensor needing to be attached in order for ECO to function properly - does this apply for the EJK as well, or do they have a way of bypassing this issue?
 
I ask because they (EJK) emphatically state that it should be disconnected when you install an EJK. I had an EJK prior to my reflash with 2WDW and disconnected the O2 sensor and did not have any issues. Once I got the reflash, and the O2 sensor was *still* disconnected, there were definite issues. 2WDW at first said it doesn't matter; use the one that feels best, then I got an email telling me to *always* connect the O2 sensor with their reflashes. I did reconnect it, and it was much better!
 
So . . . do you believe that the EJK has a way around the odd behavior with ECO mode and O2 sensor disconnected? I definitely feel it with the reflash but the EJK seems clean. Thoughts?

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catfish
So who did the initial re-flash on your bike @catfish ? What's an "unrestricted" map? I would have assumed the tuner would start with the factory maps and modify them.
I'm not going to name the Tuner as they were NOT the original source of the mapping problem. The "Unrestricted Map" provided by FT-ECU to all FT-ECU tuners for the FZ07 is the problem. This is the map that FT-ECU recommends that ALL tuners start with when they dyno-tune the TPS fuel maps for the 07. Ignition mapping, tps/map bias, rev limiters, etc ... all "unrestricted".
 
Its TPS/MAP Bias map & ignition maps have been optimized for premium fuel & use above 5000 rpm. The ignition map changes actually make an 07 LESS smooth than OEM below 4k rpm. The blanket changes down there to +15 degrees minimum advance in every gear is WRONG & I suspect UN-TESTED. I tested with my 07 and it PINGED!
 
This map would be FINE for a track bike running premium & never actually use much throttle below 5k rpm. NOT the base map to start with IMHO for street bikes. You do not have to muck up the bottom of the mapping to have a good running 07 everywhere on regular fuel. JD, myself, & others have proved it to ourselves.
 
Just an FYI ... the map tables show above are TPS (x axis) vs RPM (y axis).
 
 
 

@catfish  
I've just read the whole thread and find it very interesting, but I do have a question: the O2 sensor needing to be attached in order for ECO to function properly - does this apply for the EJK as well, or do they have a way of bypassing this issue?
 
I ask because they (EJK) emphatically state that it should be disconnected when you install an EJK. I had an EJK prior to my reflash with 2WDW and disconnected the O2 sensor and did not have any issues. Once I got the reflash, and the O2 sensor was *still* disconnected, there were definite issues. 2WDW at first said it doesn't matter; use the one that feels best, then I got an email telling me to *always* connect the O2 sensor with their reflashes. I did reconnect it, and it was much better!
 
So . . . do you believe that the EJK has a way around the odd behavior with ECO mode and O2 sensor disconnected? I definitely feel it with the reflash but the EJK seems clean. Thoughts?
I do not have experience with the EJK, but its my understanding that it merely monitors TPS & RPM, and makes fuel-range adjustments to the ECU injector timing. In the old days, when unplugging the O2 sensor actually got you ONLY base fuel maps & no closed-loop control, that worked great. I've done this to every moto I've dyno tune in the past. Dyno-tune the base fuel & ignition maps to the bike & you're done!
 
However, we have "ECO Mode" now on the 07 and its more complicated that just closed-loop on O2 sensor. Its very difficult to give an engine good throttle response while closed-loop on the O2 sensor. Surging & poor throttle response was just part of the process when opening the throttle small amounts with most previous EFI motos.
 
Yamaha, and most others, have now developed rather detailed "physics models" for their engines and its in the ECU software. They know how rich their base map is (Mine appears to be AFR=11.0-11.5 when NOT in ECO mode), and how far that AFR is from the normal closed-loop AFR of 14.1.
 
So .... when ECO mode is ON, and they are concerned about throttle response, they switch off closed-loop control on the O2 sensor, and switch IN an ECO AFR OFFSET to the fuel tables to move the 11.5 up to 14.1. As if it really was closed-loop as far as emissions are concerned, but open-loop for better throttle response. Kinda Yamaha's version of VW-emissions antics.
 
VERY CLEVER stuff to get good emissions AND good throttle response at small loads. HOWEVER, this becomes a NIGHTMARE for dyno tuners! Un-plugging the O2 sensor only kills closed-loop control, it does NOT kill ECO Mode and its ECO AFR OFFSET value to the base fuel tables!
 
FT-ECU & the other ECU crackers have yet to find the switch for ECO Mode or the OFFSET value to ZERO to make ECO go away for the 07!!!
 
So, until someone figures out the rest of the stuff hiding in the 07 ECU, its best for street use, to NOT tune fuel maps where ECO mode can occur.
 
I'll give my example of why or how bad this is when I get to my PCV tuning.
 
Oh, back to the EJK question ... if you are riding your 07 on the street and want good fuel economy, keep the O2 sensor in place & connected to ECU. If you are really just racing or track days & have no concerns about fuel economy, then REMOVE the O2 sensor & plug the exhaust port. Save the O2 sensor for later.
 
Do NOT unplug the O2 sensor from the ECU without also removing the O2 sensor from the port. An O2 sensor will go BAD if left in place & its heater is not powered.
 
I suspect EJK, like most everyone else, has ASSUMED ECO Mode was ONLY closed-loop control on the O2 sensor, and unplugging it would remove ALL ECO Mode. It does not. Sorry.
 
More tuning discovers in a bit,
 
Catfish ...
 
 
 
 
 
 
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markstertt

Really good info! Can't wait for the next installment..Mark

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