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FZ07 Tuning Adventures: Akra-Ti, Hordpower airbox, PCV, etc.


catfish

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I know ppl use the " holley EFI" systems on inline 4cylinder drag bikes...
 
The more and more I think about this blasted " eco mode"  I'm starting to think its an "emissions defeat"  thingmajiggie 
 
 
 

2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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Being able to flash the ECU is great, nothing wrong with a good flash. BUT... a little more access to some ECU tables than what is currently on offer, is needed. ECO mode is no problem, other than the AFR that it runs at- 14.7:1. This is a bit lean to make the engine happy. This is where the Dynojet PCV is nice, it comes with an O2 "optimizer." It offsets the signal coming from the 02 sensor, making the ECU think things are a tad more lean than it really is, and the ECU bumps fuel a little bit. The result is, in ECO mode the AFR becomes 14.2:1. This makes the engine happier, and you still get good fuel economy. I have extensively datalogged this on the road, the optimizer works well. The problem is, ECO has a different working range in every gear, so per-gear PCV maps are needed.

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J.D. Hord
 

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However, we have "ECO Mode" now on the 07 and its more complicated that just closed-loop on O2 sensor. Its very difficult to give an engine good throttle response while closed-loop on the O2 sensor. Surging & poor throttle response was just part of the process when opening the throttle small amounts with most previous EFI motos.
 
Yamaha, and most others, have now developed rather detailed "physics models" for their engines and its in the ECU software. They know how rich their base map is (Mine appears to be AFR=11.0-11.5 when NOT in ECO mode), and how far that AFR is from the normal closed-loop AFR of 14.1.
 
So .... when ECO mode is ON, and they are concerned about throttle response, they switch off closed-loop control on the O2 sensor, and switch IN an ECO AFR OFFSET to the fuel tables to move the 11.5 up to 14.1. As if it really was closed-loop as far as emissions are concerned, but open-loop for better throttle response. Kinda Yamaha's version of VW-emissions antics.
 
VERY CLEVER stuff to get good emissions AND good throttle response at small loads. HOWEVER, this becomes a NIGHTMARE for dyno tuners! Un-plugging the O2 sensor only kills closed-loop control, it does NOT kill ECO Mode and its ECO AFR OFFSET value to the base fuel tables!
 
FT-ECU & the other ECU crackers have yet to find the switch for ECO Mode or the OFFSET value to ZERO to make ECO go away for the 07!!!
 
So, until someone figures out the rest of the stuff hiding in the 07 ECU, its best for street use, to NOT tune fuel maps where ECO mode can occur.
 
I'll give my example of why or how bad this is when I get to my PCV tuning.
 
Oh, back to the EJK question ... if you are riding your 07 on the street and want good fuel economy, keep the O2 sensor in place & connected to ECU. If you are really just racing or track days & have no concerns about fuel economy, then REMOVE the O2 sensor & plug the exhaust port. Save the O2 sensor for later.
 
Do NOT unplug the O2 sensor from the ECU without also removing the O2 sensor from the port. An O2 sensor will go BAD if left in place & its heater is not powered.
 
I suspect EJK, like most everyone else, has ASSUMED ECO Mode was ONLY closed-loop control on the O2 sensor, and unplugging it would remove ALL ECO Mode. It does not. Sorry.
 
More tuning discovers in a bit,
 
Catfish ...
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
I think this may be the reason why DynoJet themselves state special tuning notes in their Installation Guide for the FZ-07 PCV...have a look:
 
H2WO93Gh.jpg
 
 
- Paulie
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Yes but it is more complicated than that. Even Dynojet's table above is not correct. There needs to be a table like that for every gear, and it is not as simple as TPS vs. RPM. Plus like Catfish says, besides the ECO mode there is a long term fuel trim table lurking in the ECU. Somewhere. lol.

J.D. Hord
 

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Yes but it is more complicated than that. Even Dynojet's table above is not correct. There needs to be a table like that for every gear, and it is not as simple as TPS vs. RPM. Plus like Catfish says, besides the ECO mode there is a long term fuel trim table lurking in the ECU. Somewhere. lol.
i know they are a pain and a half to update after disconnecting the bike... yamaha has some convoluuted load/idle schedule needed to transplant the short term trims into long term mem
 

ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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@2wheeldynoworks , @tuninghq , @hordboy :
 
So let's cut to the chase then: who makes the best solution for ECO-mode tuning and operation? PCV, EJK, 2WDW (or other reflash)?
 
1) I've tried EJK and they seem to run fine in ECO mode (O2 sensor out/off per their suggestions) and off-idle response, so they SEEM to have overridden the ECO-mode limitations. Obviously this solution cannot alter other aspects of engine performance that PCV and reflash can, but this aspect is nice. When I tried to alter ECO mode with the EJK after my 2WDW reflash, I definitely richened it up and it ran much better regarding power, but I could not tune out the surging - note that the O2 sensor HAD to be disengaged for this to work, so . . .
 
2) I have the 2WDW and am running their reflash, with the O2 sensor engaged - without it, there is an off-idle flat spot and an odd surging, unstable thing going on. With it engaged, in ECO mode, we are definitely running lean, but it is driveable. I don't believe they have figured out a way to optimize the ECO mode, but the rest of their flash is solid.
 
3) Written above, there are postings that say the PCV runs an offset and thereby richens up the ECO setting. Sounds great, but I have not used it.
 
Comments?
 

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I've had my O2 sensor wire unplugged and the sensor left in the pipe when using my EJK as per Dobecks instruction.
 
Now that I have the PCV and Hordpower airbox I'mm required to use the active O2 sensor.
 
@catfish, you mentioned it might not work if treated this way for too long. (around 14ookm) Would you or anyone know a way to check the staus/condition of the O2 sensor without having to go to a mechanic/tech.
 
Much appreciated.

Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.          Fuss Life.

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The answer is nobody has the 100% solution for tuning yet.  They all have disadvantages.  I personally am running a PCV and a flash on my bike.  That way I get some of the flash advantages, (like turning on decel fuel) and some of the PCV advantages.  (like the ECO mode enrichment)  Either one of those will also adjust ignition timing and run a quick shift, which is an advantage over the EJK. 
 
Re: 02 sensor being unplugged but installed in the pipe, it's a crap shoot.  Hopefully it will light up and clean itself off.  If not, new sensor time.  Never leave an unplugged sensor in an exhaust.  Replace it with a plug.
 

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J.D. Hord
 

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The answer is nobody has the 100% solution for tuning yet.  They all have disadvantagThees.  I personally am running a PCV and a flash on my bike.  That way I get some of the flash advantages, (like turning on decel fuel) and some of the PCV advantages.  (like the ECO mode enrichment)  Either one of those will also adjust ignition timing and run a quick shift, which is an advantage over the EJK.   
Re: 02 sensor being unplugged but installed in the pipe, it's a crap shoot.  Hopefully it will light up and clean itself off.  If not, new sensor time.  Never leave an unplugged sensor in an exhaust.  Replace it with a plug.

Right, had I only been aware to not leave it in the pipe, Rookie mistake. I shouldve just pulled my head out of my butt and googled how to diagnose... B-| . lll give it a thorough clean and hope for the best. Thanks @hordboy .

Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.          Fuss Life.

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Careful with the clean - I think it's delicate metal fibers in there, if I'm not mistaken.
 
Perhaps try mass-flow sensor cleaner for cars; seems like a similar application.

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Careful with the clean - I think it's delicate metal fibers in there, if I'm not mistaken.  
Perhaps try mass-flow sensor cleaner for cars; seems like a similar application.
Ah right, brilliant! When utterly unsure in my 'noobness' I always err on the side of caution. I'll give the sensor a test run before I go and search out that cleaner. Thanks a million.  8-)  

Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.          Fuss Life.

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  • 1 year later...
  • 1 year later...

Pulling this one out of the grave!
 

I have an XSR700 and didn't read any of the FZ/MT07 forums until AFTER I bought an FTECU w/ autotuned wideband O2 sensor. Just looking for my best option at this point, or if FTECU's base unrestricted maps have been optimized.

2018 XSR700, AKRA ti carbon with baffle removed (huge PITA) and MWR filter/lid.

Should I run a base stock map or unrestricted map from FTECU and then run the autotune for updates? I really don't have an issue running premium fuel. The issue that I DO have is on the lower RPMS the bike becomes absurdly twitchy which makes low speed practice and maneuvers horribly difficult.

I'm also considering hordpowers airbox (if it's available) and would be any benefit over the MWR filter combo. The big thing is that it looks extra cool on the open retro-ish bike.

Comments, suggestions, ideas greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Rob

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  • 1 year later...
On 5/12/2016 at 4:21 AM, catfish said:

Here you go!
 
IMG_0271.JPG
 
Gray lines = oem mapping, oem airbox, and Akra-Ti exhaust, 87-octane gasoline.
(Sorry no oem exhaust dyno runs, probably 2-3 hp less than Gray line...)
Red = removed oem airbox & installed Hordpower airbox, no other changes
Blue = PCV tuned with Hord ignition map and _my_ road-tested/tuned fuel maps
Green = Final dyno-tuning of ignition & fuel maps at Live Moto
 
Anthony at Live Moto asked me to NOT share the AFR data online. Apparently CARB (California Air Resources Board) monitors forums looking for California dyno shops doing ILLEGAL work on CA street motos! <D'OH!!!>
 
Too busy to write about the adventures just yet, but there are plenty. Still trying to figure out what the ECU is doing with its "ECO" mode when an O2 sensor is not connected to ECU. We are seeing AFRs shift from 13.5 to 18.5 & back after fuel-map tuning, and NOT in sync with ECO display. Very weird things that make tuning below 20% TPS on the dyno very hard. Its as if its switching a long-Term Fuel Trim (LTFT) value in & out as a fail-safe to no O2 sensor being seen. The DJ O2 Optimizer does not seem to fool the ECU into thinking a real O2 is connected either.
 
Later,
 
Catfish ...
 
 
 
 
 

Hi catfish, the last mapping you did with alrapovic ti + hordpower airbox, your akrapovic was with baffle or without?

You still got the pcv map that you used? Can you send it to me?

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5 hours ago, Joaoduarte said:

Hi catfish, the last mapping you did with alrapovic ti + hordpower airbox, your akrapovic was with baffle or without?

You still got the pcv map that you used? Can you send it to me?

 

We tuned with the Akra baffle IN.

This forum will not allow .pvm file attachments. Send me a private msg with your email address & I can send you my .pvm file.

Catfish ...

 

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5 hours ago, catfish said:

 

We tuned with the Akra baffle IN.

This forum will not allow .pvm file attachments. Send me a private msg with your email address & I can send you my .pvm file.

Catfish ...

 

Sent you a message @catfish thank you

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  • 5 months later...

@catfish it’s been a while. What was the result of your tuning efforts?  I think from what I’ve read on the web Woolich Racing has the CP2 ECU is pretty wide open now. 

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