Question about break-in

[forwardmotion]

I think the piston ring seal is the biggest thing when it comes to modern engine break in. They need to be sealed correctly to provide the maximum HP and engine efficiency. To that end, it requires heat to help properly seal the rings. This typically means higher RPMs. Engine breaking also helps.
 
The manufacturers recommend a slow break in process for a variety of reasons, one being for legal and liability reasons. Image how fast they would get sued if the manual said to properly break in your engine, you need to redline it and ride as hard as you can... even if there were the best way to break in a engine (not saying that it is).
 
IMO, with modern engines, they are built so precisely, there is very little that really needs breaking in to begin with. On top of that, the engines are tested at the factory and run through all gears at all RPMs.
 
Personally, I jumped between riding hard and redlining several times as well as hard engine breaking during my first couple of rides. Typically 20 minutes for the first several rides. I continued this (albeit not quite as aggressively) for the next 200 miles or so. I changed the oil myself at around 400 miles. I used Yamalube, a magnetic oil drain plug and a K&N filter. When I took it in for the 1st service (at just over 600 miles), the guys were surprised that I changed the oil already and said that the oil that comes from the factory has specific properties that help with engine break in, although they said at around 400 miles, it was probably fine. They used Yamalube and a Yamaha filter when they did my service.
 
I can say that the throttle became noticeably less twitchy after the first oil change, though it's definitely still there. At around 1000 miles, I just ride it normally now.
 
A good way to address the break in technique argument is to take 2 of the same bikes, break them in in different ways, then put them on a Dyno to see which engine performs better.

[kakusaizou]

However you want it. I've been buying a new bike every year for the past 3 years and never follow the factory recommended break-in.
 
Ironically BMW, in their manual, suggests hilly and twisty roads for breaking in. Essentially doublespeak for loading the engine and engine speed variation.
 
If the engine was that fragile to fail, manufacturers would put in measures to prevent hard break-in.

[avanti]

Of course, legal issues rule what is written for consumers. Ultimately, we all do as we think is best and the Forum gives a means of expressing those varied opinions... Viva la Forum!
 
And, don't forget, forwardmotion, when doing your break-in experiment, don't forget to do dyno testing of the two bikes BEFORE break-in as well as AFTER to confirm comparability--in experimental design this is called the ABA technique. Looking forward to such results, even though there is more involved in terms of dependent variables than simply dyno results.

[Guest Ralph]

I have seen 2 reports on engine break in, they took 2 or 3 pairs of vehicles
seem to remember one pair being fireblades, on run in as to the book the other
hard they were then striped meshured and the parts examined under a microscope,
the bit that sticks in my mind was how much rougher the hard break in bearings
looked having a ripped and pulled appearance rather than the polished appearance
of the book break in, cant remember about the power each engine gave but it convinced
me the book method was the way to go.
I have tried to track down these reports with no luck up to now.
I do suspect that a hard break in engine would initially give more power but a book engine
would catch up and likely pass it as miles mount.
Non of the engines failed but at the end of the day it's your engine and you will not likly
keep it long enough for any problems to develop.

[bmwpowere36m3]

I have seen 2 reports on engine break in, they took 2 or 3 pairs of vehicles seem to remember one pair being fireblades, on run in as to the book the other
hard they were then striped meshured and the parts examined under a microscope,
the bit that sticks in my mind was how much rougher the hard break in bearings
looked having a ripped and pulled appearance rather than the polished appearance
of the book break in, cant remember about the power each engine gave but it convinced
me the book method was the way to go.
I have tried to track down these reports with no luck up to now.
I do suspect that a hard break in engine would initially give more power but a book engine
would catch up and likely pass it as miles mount.
Non of the engines failed but at the end of the day it's your engine and you will not likly
keep it long enough for any problems to develop.

Even so, the test is too small to form any basis of fact (statically speaking).  Not saying the results are wrong... but honestly I don't believe  any "real" tests exist out there.  Most of this comes down to personal experiences and beliefs. What kind of bearings are we talking about?  Usual wear is from startup (for pressurized journal bearings due to lack of full boundary layer) and/or water/dirt contamination.  Bearings don't really wear-in... or at least, should not.
 

[rhb]

He He, so many opinions, here is one more from an old timer. Today I am a proponent of a semi hard break in, what is that? Let's face it most of us ride our bikes every day to commute ride or just enjoy, so a strict hard break in is not practical. I generally, initially keep the revs under 5-6K, gradually increasing every few days/weeks until after the first oil change, but do a lot of hard pulls and engine braking mixed with cool down chill riding, then I do pulls to redline with decel. always varying the RPMS., keeping the rides somewhat short with cool downs between. You have to seat the rings quickly or in my opinion they won't seat well, the modern engines are so tight they do produce a lot of heat initially so you you have to run through heat cooling cycles frequently. The old bikes of the 60's were so imprecisely manufactured you had a lot more variation from bike to bike and the engines were likely more susceptible to failure if you did a hard break in.
Modern engines take a long time to thoroughly break in 1500-2000 kilometers, and in some cases continue to loosen up after that.
Bottom line is common sense, with a little knowledge to boot.

[Guest ChicagoAJ]

He He, so many opinions, here is one more from an old timer. Today I am a proponent of a semi hard break in, what is that? Let's face it most of us ride our bikes every day to commute ride or just enjoy, so a strict hard break in is not practical. I generally, initially keep the revs under 5-6K, gradually increasing every few days/weeks until after the first oil change, but do a lot of hard pulls and engine braking mixed with cool down chill riding, then I do pulls to redline with decel. always varying the RPMS., keeping the rides somewhat short with cool downs between. You have to seat the rings quickly or in my opinion they won't seat well, the modern engines are so tight they do produce a lot of heat initially so you you have to run through heat cooling cycles frequently. The old bikes of the 60's were so imprecisely manufactured you had a lot more variation from bike to bike and the engines were likely more susceptible to failure if you did a hard break in. Modern engines take a long time to thoroughly break in 1500-2000 kilometers, and in some cases continue to loosen up after that.
Bottom line is common sense, with a little knowledge to boot.

I'm all for hard break-ins but an engine is like 95% broken in during its first 50 miles. After that not much else happens if the oil is circulating correctly and changed in a timely manner. 

[botticelli]

Grip it 'N' Rip it.
 
Just my .02 but the days of engines that need to be babied were for the forefathers.
 

[rhb]

He He, so many opinions, here is one more from an old timer. Today I am a proponent of a semi hard break in, what is that? Let's face it most of us ride our bikes every day to commute ride or just enjoy, so a strict hard break in is not practical. I generally, initially keep the revs under 5-6K, gradually increasing every few days/weeks until after the first oil change, but do a lot of hard pulls and engine braking mixed with cool down chill riding, then I do pulls to redline with decel. always varying the RPMS., keeping the rides somewhat short with cool downs between. You have to seat the rings quickly or in my opinion they won't seat well, the modern engines are so tight they do produce a lot of heat initially so you you have to run through heat cooling cycles frequently. The old bikes of the 60's were so imprecisely manufactured you had a lot more variation from bike to bike and the engines were likely more susceptible to failure if you did a hard break in. Modern engines take a long time to thoroughly break in 1500-2000 kilometers, and in some cases continue to loosen up after that.
Bottom line is common sense, with a little knowledge to boot.

I'm all for hard break-ins but an engine is like 95% broken in during its first 50 miles. After that not much else happens if the oil is circulating correctly and changed in a timely manner. 

Well if your just talking piston rings true, but there  are many other moving parts to consider, transmission, timing chain, valve seating, even pistons/cylinders continue to wear in beyond a few miles.. But your right you have to seat those rings pretty quickly. I guess we should differentiate between "break in" and wearing in. It takes time. 

[onur]

Hi guys I have another question.
 
Is it ok to change exhaust before engine break-in? I am planning to get a FZ-07 in few months and also planning to get Akra-TI right after I get the bike. I am wondering should I wait engine break-in before replacing original exhaust.

[Beemer]

He He, so many opinions, here is one more from an old timer. Today I am a proponent of a semi hard break in, what is that? Let's face it most of us ride our bikes every day to commute ride or just enjoy, so a strict hard break in is not practical. I generally, initially keep the revs under 5-6K, gradually increasing every few days/weeks until after the first oil change, but do a lot of hard pulls and engine braking mixed with cool down chill riding, then I do pulls to redline with decel. always varying the RPMS., keeping the rides somewhat short with cool downs between. You have to seat the rings quickly or in my opinion they won't seat well, the modern engines are so tight they do produce a lot of heat initially so you you have to run through heat cooling cycles frequently. The old bikes of the 60's were so imprecisely manufactured you had a lot more variation from bike to bike and the engines were likely more susceptible to failure if you did a hard break in. Modern engines take a long time to thoroughly break in 1500-2000 kilometers, and in some cases continue to loosen up after that.
Bottom line is common sense, with a little knowledge to boot.

Agreed, I pushed mine a little more in increments. If I pushed it to 6k rpm one day I would push it a little more a couple days later until I eventually came close to red-line. It gave the metal time to get used to the stresses. I look at it like you would weight lifting. You don't want to just throw a bunch of weight on the bar the first time and strain your hardest. That's just asking for damage so you start out with light weights first and work your way up to be safe.

[Guest ChicagoAJ]

I'm all for hard break-ins but an engine is like 95% broken in during its first 50 miles. After that not much else happens if the oil is circulating correctly and changed in a timely manner. 

Well if your just talking piston rings true, but there  are many other moving parts to consider, transmission, timing chain, valve seating, even pistons/cylinders continue to wear in beyond a few miles.. But your right you have to seat those rings pretty quickly. I guess we should differentiate between "break in" and wearing in. It takes time.

I put about 55 very hard miles on the new bike I picked up this morning. It didn't seem to mind, haha. 

[pineappleunderthesea]

I've heard tons of stuff about break-ins...but several times I've been told that when you break in your engine, you are finishing the "honing" process and removing small particles of metal that get carried in the oil. If we agree that metal particles are bad for the engine, then a fast break-in makes more sense so that you can get rid of that oil. So with that in mind, the initial oil that comes with the engine apparently has break-in additives that give the oil the appropriate amount of friction to help "hone" the engine and seat the rings quickly. If you change the oil immediately to a synthetic when you get the bike, the oil is "slippery" and doesn't have enough friction to hone and seat everything quickly enough, so the process takes much longer. Sure, you can do an oil change again, but since the oil is so "slippery", the engine is still spewing out bits of metal over time.
 
So that's what I've heard. That still doesn't tell me if I should floor the bike for 60 miles and consider it broken in, or follow the manual. I decide to follow the manual and only change the oil at their recommended internval.

[Guest ChicagoAJ]

I've heard tons of stuff about break-ins...but several times I've been told that when you break in your engine, you are finishing the "honing" process and removing small particles of metal that get carried in the oil. If we agree that metal particles are bad for the engine, then a fast break-in makes more sense so that you can get rid of that oil. So with that in mind, the initial oil that comes with the engine apparently has break-in additives that give the oil the appropriate amount of friction to help "hone" the engine and seat the rings quickly. If you change the oil immediately to a synthetic when you get the bike, the oil is "slippery" and doesn't have enough friction to hone and seat everything quickly enough, so the process takes much longer. Sure, you can do an oil change again, but since the oil is so "slippery", the engine is still spewing out bits of metal over time. 
So that's what I've heard. That still doesn't tell me if I should floor the bike for 60 miles and consider it broken in, or follow the manual. I decide to follow the manual and only change the oil at their recommended internval.

Break in period is basically to keep you alive. If you jump on a new bike that has much more power than you're used to they want you to ride slowly and keep it under a certain speed and rpm for so long (especially with new super-slick tires). As soon as my tires are scrubbed in, I consider a new bike pretty much broken in. 

[bugeyes]

One good thing is letting the engine go trough a few heat cykles before running it really hard to make things settle in. Don't baby it but keep away from the redline for a while.
Don't take it from the dealer and go for a long ride at even rpm, you may glaze the cylinders. Varied riding is what I belive in for breaking in.

[Guest ChicagoAJ]

One good thing is letting the engine go trough a few heat cykles before running it really hard to make things settle in. Don't baby it but keep away from the redline for a while. Don't take it from the dealer and go for a long ride at even rpm, you may glaze the cylinders. Varied riding is what I belive in for breaking in.

I'm all city riding. So it's just stoplight to stoplight to stoplight. I kept it between 3k-9k. Wish I could've done a dyno break-in, oh well. 

[avanti]

I give up; why not just follow the necessarily conservative recommendations of the ones who designed and built it... cannot hurt, especially if one has warranty issues.
 
I found out about doing with a blown engine on my yard vac that the factory rep who examined the (obvious to me) faulty engine tried to find any easy out from covering a loss. My dealer verified that all was done exactly "according to the manual" and the engine company footed the bill for a replacement.

[yamahaha]

So many different opinions on breakin. Whatever floats your boat.
 
I was watching a documentary on MV Augusta. Every 'brand new' engine is ran at maximum output for a time before they pass the sniff test.