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What Octane gasoline to use ?


ExTex

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I'll agree on th water attraction but only to a certain degree. Ethanol stabilizes at around 96% in atmosphere. But that's only for pure alcohol. It will certainly blend with water, but you have to put water in it.
 
10% ethanol is not going to hurt seals in a modern engine. You're talking roughly the same alcohol content as a strong beer or weak wine. I'm willing to bet that any damage done to I rings at that level if alcohol is from the other oxygenators found in gas.
 
E85 maybe. But even then, it's because you're running it in an engine that wasn't designed for it.
 
People freak out of ethanol for no reason.
 

-HowWorkClutch

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People freak out of ethanol for no reason.

No, some of us have been working on bikes and cars for a long time and we have seen first hand how the new ethanol blended fuels have wreaked havoc on fuel systems. Another issue with ethanol is it's tendency to corrode softer metals like brass and aluminum. I have personally seen the after affects.
 
 
 
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...the amount of fuel needed to provide this power is more than regular gas. It is not as efficient in creating the power. The amount of additional fuel you need to flow, on my car, exceeds the rate of my fuel delivery system.
This is exactly correct.  This is why "flex fuel" vehicles (vehicles designed and certified to run E85 from the factory) have, among other differences, larger fuel injectors than non-E85 certified vehicles.  The exact reason is because of what you mentioned - the need to flow more fuel to make the same power. I think they also have more durable seals due to what you mentioned about ethanol breaking seals down faster than gasoline.  
 
Ultimately folks, the bottom line comes down to what the motor was designed to burn - be it no ethanol, 10% ethanol, E85, 87 octane, 93 octane...  Some required characteristics of a system cannot be tuned by a fuel controller, they are physical build characteristics of the motor itself.  It is important that you know that so that you don't go blowing your money on "snake oil" you only assume is making better power when in reality it's not.  

Life is good on 2 wheels!

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People freak out of ethanol for no reason.
No, some of us have been working on bikes and cars for a long time and we have seen first hand how the new ethanol blended fuels have wreaked havoc on fuel systems. Another issue with ethanol is it's tendency to corrode softer metals like brass and aluminum. I have personally seen the after affects. 
 

Keep in mind the reason for 10% ethanol in today's most common fuels is to "cut" the gasoline down to make it cheaper. 
 
Any time I hear something like this, I have to ask myself who is benefiting?  I'm certain it's not the consumer other than maybe in the pocket book (short term - probably not long term).  Really, it's the oil companies lowering costs and raising margins and THAT my friends is why 10% ethanol blends even exist to begin with.    

Life is good on 2 wheels!

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No, some of us have been working on bikes and cars for a long time and we have seen first hand how the new ethanol blended fuels have wreaked havoc on fuel systems. Another issue with ethanol is it's tendency to corrode softer metals like brass and aluminum. I have personally seen the after affects. 
 

Keep in mind the reason for 10% ethanol in today's most common fuels is to "cut" the gasoline down to make it cheaper.  
Any time I hear something like this, I have to ask myself who is benefiting?  I'm certain it's not the consumer other than maybe in the pocket book (short term - probably not long term).  Really, it's the oil companies lowering costs and raising margins and THAT my friends is why 10% ethanol blends even exist to begin with.    
 
 
No. Just no. Use your head man. One if the arguments against ethanol is its expensive to produce. If that's true then the net result is mixing a high-cost product with a low-cost product. Your thought process doesn't make any sense.
 
The fact (science. Real talk) is blending ethanol with gasoline reduces CO and CO2 emissions from an internal combustion engine. It's make for cleaner air.
 
I understand that some people just don't like clean air. It doesn't mesh with thier political ideals. However, clean air is necessary. Even rats and snakes need it. If you're one of these beings who can magically live off filth that's great but the rest if us require clean air. Admittedly we are weak and vulnerable.
 
Another thing I noted that's extremely odd is how some people expect more power from an engine while consuming less fuel. This is impossible. If you tune your engine for more power you will use more fuel. That's kinda the cornerstone if how engines work. If you need a simplistic refresher: try accelerating without opening the throttle.
 
So one of today's projects is to find some aluminum, brass, and varying o-rings to soak in lab-grade ethanol for a few months. I'm kinda weird: I like to test things to prove right from wrong. When I was younger I depended on TV for facts but I found that the commentators ability to speak truthfully was inversely proportional to the income they derived from promoting an idea. And so: I've learned a lot of sciencey things over the years.
 
So I'll get together a test procedure and keep you all posted on the negative effects of ethanol on common materials. If such effects actually exist.

-HowWorkClutch

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I've already seen first hand and read many tests on the matter. It is most definitely a problem and if it weren't, there wouldn't be a market for ethanol free gas that is being sold to those with small engines. Look up Tru Fuel, 50 Fuel, VP Small Engine Fuel, etc.
 
When we stopped using ethanol gas in our chainsaws at work we stopped having issues with carbs getting gummed up or damaged by the ethanol. We've had to replace carbs in the past because they are pitted badly and the saw wouldn't run anymore.
 
All of our saws are run on VP SEF now.

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two-stroke engines are not four stroke engines.
 
And by your logic, car stereo amp manufacturers exist because no one can hear a stock stereo.
 
10% ethanol is the boogie man.

-HowWorkClutch

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It is a scientific fact that gasoline produces more energy than ethanol. It is also a scientific fact that unless an engine is tuned specifically to burn E10 or E85, pure gasoline will make more power in the engine than either of the ethanol blends.
 
I never once argued ethanol was expensive to produce. What I stated, which is also a scientifically documented fact, is that ethanol is a net energy negative. It most certainly is cheaper than oil, but the fact remains it costs more energy to produce it that in nets in return.
 
"Another thing I noted that's extremely odd is how some people expect more power from an engine while consuming less fuel. This is impossible." -- No, it is not impossible. It's the very definition of efficiency. If you want proof that it exists, compare a Ford Model A motor against a 2015 Corvette motor. Technology for the win.
 
The fact is, most modern engines have to account for any range of pure 86 octane gasoline to E10 and in doing so will not run as efficiently on the E10 as they will on the pure gasoline (because the laws of physics say so - no backyard study required).
 
I certainly do not need a lecture on scientific thinking either. I'm pretty sure I have a few pieces of paper stating I have that covered ha (well, in at least 37 states haha). All fact, no politics. Real life.
 
EDIT:  The US government stated this on the internet (so it MUST be true ;) haha), but if you accept both as legitimate info here's some nice numbers for you: 
 

"The energy content of ethanol is about 33% less than "pure" gasoline, although this varies depending on the amount of denaturant that is added to the ethanol. Thus, vehicle fuel economy may decrease by up to 3.3% when using E10." 
 
Source: http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=27&t=4
 

Life is good on 2 wheels!

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It's not worth arguing with him anymore. He doesn't listen to facts and personal experience. His mind is made up.
I'm with you and I agree.  That was my final post on this topic.  Any more is just beating a dead horse.  

Life is good on 2 wheels!

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  • 3 months later...

I don't know why, but i feel like i can sense a difference in riding when i use 91 octane so i always put 91 octane, although that could very well be the placebo effect...

I'm just a soul whose intentions are good

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Here in the UK the grades are slightly different we only generally have two
and the dealer recommended the highest I could get as according to them the
bike was right on the limit for the lower grade, I cant tell the slightest
difference but am using the higher grade as the bike is so good on fuel it's
only a few pence extra.
This is about 98 Ron 102 Ron fuel is available but only really used for very
high performance engines and I have never seen it on sale, a mate that
races outfits uses aviation fuel.
US 91 Mon is roughly the same as our 98 Ron though they cant be directly
compared.

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I would not use aviation fuel. They should not sell it to you for street use, but you can legally buy it for race use. The problem is even the 100 Low Lead (which is probably the only octane you will find) has a lot of lead in it. It is just lower lead than regular 100, which I have not seen in a couple of decades.

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  • 2 weeks later...

For me, I get the 91 Octane because it comes with No Ethanol in it.. That's how it is at only 1 type of gas station around where I live.(Kwik Trip)

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  • 4 months later...
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yamahappy74

I guess I've always used 91 since I got the bike. Maybe I'll try 87 on my next fill up. See if there is a difference.

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In the north American bikes designed for our 87 octane, would the bike not retard timing if you put 91 in, thus decreasing power like cars do?

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Run 87 octane unless you tune the bike to run on higher grades...just buy gas from a reputable station...

2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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The frame sticker (drivers side left, above/behind the radiator) states "MIN 91 RON" .... Does that mean 91 or premium fuel in USA?

'15 FZ-09 Cadmium Yellow
'15 White Fz-07 - Sold

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Nvrm... Googled it and the RON rating is not the USA unit if measure. So the 91 RON = 87 AKI (USA measurement), so regular gas

'15 FZ-09 Cadmium Yellow
'15 White Fz-07 - Sold

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