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eraser8

Rear wheel axel nut torque

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eraser8
Hi all,
 
Tonight, I found something about my rear axel nut. I write here to see if someone have see the same thing on their bike.
 
I dig for couple of days about the rear wheel sprocket wobble. I see many explanation/reason that could cause that but nothing correspond to mine. I just change the sprocket for a new one, the new one is like an arrow and the original is exactly the SAME. So, this was not the problem. After that, I opened the cush hub to see if everything is in place, no problem here. I also check the hub bearing in case it was not sit perfectly in the hub, it is perfect..... So now what?
 
I finally give it another try, put back the wheel, brake, spacer, everything is good and verified. Torque the wheel axel nut to 76 lbs/ft, but now, a light comes up in my mind. I already found that the nut is really HARD to crew it on the axel. I can see it is a kind of lock nut with some steel on the external side of the nut. When I screw it on the wheel axel, I need to give it at least 15 lbs of torque (approximate value gived by my hand) just to screw it BEFORE arriving near the swingarm... So, my deduction is that when I use my torque wrench to torque it at 76 lbs, in fact it is more 61 lbs (lets say the restriction of nut is 15 lbs). 
 
For example, when I first torque it to 76 lbs, the brake caliper could move sligtly to to front and rear (like 1 mm). After thinking about that, I decide to give it a 10 lbs more (86 lbs/ft). After that, the caliper stop moving... I tried to verify the sprocket and it seems to have a less wobble effect but I didn't have the time to check it on a stand. I will check it tomorrow.
 
But my question now is: is it normal that the wheel nut is so stiff? and what can tell me that the wheel nut is screw correctly? 
 
Thanks for any input

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norcal616
The big axle nut was designed to be used once or twice...I use these style of nuts at work all the time... It's somewhat of a " lock nut" style nut...has 2 lil metal tabs that follow the threads and act as a anti spin off control... It's best to use new nuts and bolts for sprocket change and use a new axle nut every few times you take it completely off...

2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition...2015 fj-09- 120whp- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich Race Kit- tuned by 2WDW
 

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bmwpowere36m3
Some have reported damaged threads on the axle and nut when removing them for the first time. Do the threads look good, not rolled over? Take a pic.
 
The axle nut had a built-in locking feature, two metal tangs (Fuji-nut). However it shouldn't take 15 ft-lbs to thread it on. They say to replace them each time... I've never done that. If I feel some run-on torque when threading it on, I call it good.
 
He'll my old dirt bike had a castle-nut, I've never found it to have loosened against the spring clip or cotter-pin... if properly torqued.
 
In some cases I'll add a dab of blue threadlocker if it's a suspension bolt with that style of nut.

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eraser8
Thanks guys for your input... Unfortunately, yesterday night I tried to unscrew the nut to verify something on the wheel... Guess what? my nut was jammed on the bolt and the baddest thing happen... The aluminum cast on the other side (right side) is now stripped. I googled this and in 30 seconds I was able to find couple of forum that happen the same thing.
 
So now, I need to find a way to remove the bolt and put new bolt, nut and axle "cover" on the right side. You can check this link if you want to see what I mean.
 
http://www.motorcycle-talk.net/forum/mt-07-fz-07-technical-forum/1550-cant-remove-rear-axle-nut.html
 
Any Idea to remove the bolt? What I thought is to grind the 2 lips of the bolt head (right side) to be able to get out this shit on the left side. Is it a good idea?
 
Thanks

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eraser8
The big axle nut was designed to be used once or twice...I use these style of nuts at work all the time... It's somewhat of a " lock nut" style nut...has 2 lil metal tabs that follow the threads and act as a anti spin off control... It's best to use new nuts and bolts for sprocket change and use a new axle nut every few times you take it completely off...
This should make sense to me... My bike is almost brand new (about 300 km) and I remove it about 5 times... And I could saw from each time I unscrew it that the force needed just to screw in increase at each time... but now, it was the last one.... :(  
Some, make sense to use it only 1 or 2 time and buy a brand new one after that.

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bmwpowere36m3
Damn... you f'd that good. I'd try and cut the two metal tangs off the axle nut, spray some penetrate oil on the threads, use an impact gun and get someone to help hold the adjuster plate (silver) and push the axle (end with flats) against it [plate] to keep them both from rotating.
 
Likely you'll have to resort to cutting/grinding the axle and/or nut totally off.

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eraser8
Thanks for all your input.
 
The fact is, I'm pretty sure the nut is so jammed that even if I am able to removethe 2 smal locking lid on the nut, I don't think I will be able to unscrew it anyway....
 
The other side is, the only other option to remove the axle without anymore damage (bearing, wheel, etc...) is to grind the axle head on the right side and to remove it from the left side. I will try tonight to remove the 2 small lid and remove the nut but I'm pretty sure it is a lost in time.
 
I will try that tonight and come back to give you more news about that..... Fuc*in locking-nut...
 
Do you ever heard that this kind of nut is normally to be used about 2 or 3 time max? And after that, simply buy a new nut to avoid any problem?
 
 

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bmwpowere36m3
I've reused that style of nut countless times on other bikes and stuff... never had a problem. However a couple of members have had the exact same problem on the FZ-07 (stuck and stripped axle & nut). Maybe bad luck, maybe poor quality hardware, etc...

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eraser8
Wish I was just unlucky for that... I called my dealer this morning and he will give me all necessary part to rebuild it correctly (axle, aluminum block on the right side and nut.... Need to wait about 2 weeks because the aluminum block is currently back order.... dawn.
 
The good news is I now have 2 weeks to think about how I will remove the current axel??? I don`t want to damage any order part (like bearing with heat)...

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eraser8
Also, I will try to take couple of pic when I will be able to remove it. Maybe it could be usefull for other member if it happen.

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eraser8
Tadaaaaa. Successfully removed the axel!! Here is some pics of what I did.
 
During cutting with grinder, I srapyed a lot of water to keep with cold.
P1140352_zpsbhagowvi.jpg
 
During the cutting
P1140353_zps4etldjgt.jpg
 
The cutting was done, I was able to remove the aluminum block
P1140356_zpsq1sijcuq.jpg
 
Did some dremel to polish all around the axel to avoid any bearing/spacer damage
P1140357_zpsvebmmzcq.jpg
 
Here is what the fastener looks like after I was able to remove the nut with a big pipe wrench and a 24" wrench
 
P1140360_zpshw3qpejg.jpg
 
 
It tooks me about 1h30  to get the axle removed. I cover all my bike of aluminum foil to avoid any steel spark to go on it. Job well done, No damages.
 
Now I need to wait 2 weeks for the parts!

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bmwpowere36m3
Good job, got a picture of the nut?

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eraser8
Hi bmw,
 
Here is a picture of the nut BEFORE I removed it from the axel. It tooks me a lot of effort to be able to remove it.
 
P1140359_zpsb4u32vya.jpg
 
 
I will take a shot tonight of the inside of the nut after removing it. Almost fastener are broken

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eraser8
Here is 2 pics of the Nut health after removed.
 
 
P1140363_zps5toessap.jpg
 
 
P1140364_zpsoefltrhx.jpg
 
I think it is good for 1 or 2 time :)

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duenan
Wait a minute. Are you saying, if I tighten the chain 2-3 times, I best be replacing the entire nut?

Engaging with people that have personality disorders on a message board is like arguing with a rock.

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eraser8
Wait a minute. Are you saying, if I tighten the chain 2-3 times, I best be replacing the entire nut?
In my case, Yes. But maybe I was just unlucky.... If I was you, I will take care about how torque you need to screw the nut before you arrive at the swingarm.
 
When I will receive all parts (in about 2 weeks) I will take a measure with the brand new bolt and brand new nut to know how much torque I need just to turn the nut on the bolt.. (for example 5 lbs). After that, I will be able to know when my nut going wrong if it increase in torque.

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Guest ChicagoAJ
Wait a minute. Are you saying, if I tighten the chain 2-3 times, I best be replacing the entire nut?
I was thinking the exact same thing when I read through this... Because I had to loosen and tighten everything a few times when I adjusted my chain for the first time at ~200 miles.  
I would think this would only happen if you're taking the nut completely off 2-3 times. Not just simply loosening and tightening it to adjust the chain. Hopefully someone will chime in and let us know. 

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eraser8
I will be able to give you the exact torque needed to turn a brand new nut/axle in 2 weeks.
 
 

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Guest ChicagoAJ
I think duenan and myself are just asking if we need to replace the axle nut after simply loosening it to only tighten the chain (leaving the nut on the axle).

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pattonme
the axle nuts are consumables. But no, I wouldn't say you need to replace them after a handful of chain adjustments. Just watch that the thin metal blade doesn't wedge itself into the threads when loosening.

bannerfans_1095431.jpg

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eraser8
So.... After receiving my brand new parts, I took some mesurement in torque. Here is the results:
 
Brand new bolt
Brand new Nut
 
Torque needed to screw to nut before reaching the swingarm, about 3 lbs/ft. So, it is negligable This is without any lubrification as per the manual say.
 
So, in brief, when I torque the wheel at 76 lbs with the locknut, in fact, the wheel is torqued to 73 lbs for a nut without locking system. All seems good now.
 
If I can give a hint about the mut, I think the best advice I can give you before manipulate the nut is to besure than the fastener are very very clean before unscrew/screw the nut. Hope this can help someone!

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scoobyfan
Did my chain adjustment last week and I thought about your story before beginning my work!
 
But everything went fine :)
 

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eraser8
Did my chain adjustment last week and I thought about your story before beginning my work!  
But everything went fine :)

I hope I was just unlucky. But for now, all seems to go well with my brand new parts!!!. Will change my chain for an EK zvx3 as soon as I will receive my chain breaker/riveting tool. Hope this will significantly reduce the chain sound!

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eraser8
Just receive my riveting tool this morning. Guess what? I'va installed my brand new EK ZVX3 chain. Well, I have only did a quick roadtest and the chain had full of oem white grease. But WOW!!! I didn't ear the chain anymore!!! It's crazy! I recommand that for each of you that found the chain noise too much . BUT I must admit that since I've change the rear sprocket, the sound was less anoying. But the chain upgrade is simply amazing!!
 
I will test it for a couple of hundred KM and if this changed, I will come back here to give my input.

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jeffkisthename
Man, I wish I had read this before attempting to replace my chain and sprockets. Now I have to grind like you did. Crapola.

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