What oil will you use?

[crsnhppr]

Well ill give my 2 cents since everyone else has.
 
I used Spectro dino oil for the break in (I changed the oil after 200 miles, 400, 500, 700,100) I Ran it FKN hard so I changed it often
 
After 1000 miles, I switched to Amsoil for 1000-6000 ish , and ran it FKN hard and changed oil every 1.5k miles
 
between 6000 and 21,000 ive used whatever because my engine is thoroughly broken in, runs super smooth, no problems. Walmart stuff mostly, either Castrol or the Mobil 4t. I just recently put in the cheapest non-synthetic Valvoline stuff. My change intervals between the 6k and 21k mark were between 1.5k miles and 2k miles.
 
I change often ish because i run it hard, and it seems fine. I think running the good stuff in the beginning will benefit you in the long run , it did for me anyways...and maybe change your oil a little more frequently that normal...my engine and clutch seem to like that. I think after you get your engine worn in (10k) you can use whatever...

[Guest 2wheeler]

I took my first good ride for the season yesterday which was about 150 miles. It was also my first good ride after switching back to Castrol ActEvo 10-40w semi-synthetic. I ran that for one oil change then switched to Motul 7100 (full synthetic) for the next , now back to the ActEvo.
 
I was not impressed with the Motul, and feel that the Castrol runs and shifts better, and at half the price of the Motul. My next oil change will be around the beginning of summer where I will switch to the ActEvo in 20-50w. I arguably should have used that weight last summer when I first switched to the Castrol, so it will be interesting to see what the difference will be in the shifting.
 

[liami]

What about the crush washers, where can I get a big pack of the correct size?

[dentalprodigy]

What about the crush washers, where can I get a big pack of the correct size?

Here you go...
 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007JKPUUE/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=vs-powersports-convert-amazon-20
 
If you need one RIGHT NOW, I'd just reuse your existing one. Or you can call your local car dealership and see if they will sell you one. My local Honda dealership sells them for 10 cents a piece I think.

[slimphattz]

Does AutoZone sell oil filters too?

[r1limited]

Amsoil 10/40 metric in the Duc, R1 and FZ

[level41]

They recommend yamalube, but funny enough, the only thing appearing in amazon (searching for engine oil 'yamalube'), is Honda GN4.
Would you use GN4 in your bike?
 
Does the engine have a dry or wet clutch that can slip when using automotive oils?
Just wondering regardless of what brand or SAE W rating, is there something I need to be aware of purchasing the oils?
 

[mjh937]

They recommend yamalube, but funny enough, the only thing appearing in amazon (searching for engine oil 'yamalube'), is Honda GN4. Would you use GN4 in your bike?
 
Does the engine have a dry or wet clutch that can slip when using automotive oils?
Just wondering regardless of what brand or SAE W rating, is there something I need to be aware of purchasing the oils?

We have a wet clutch. The brand of oil does not matter as long as it is API service SG or higher and JASO standard MA (that is in the owners manual). There are a lot if opinions regarding the "best" brand, but as long as it meets those requirements you will be okay.  

[shinyribs]

Kind of getting tired of paying for motul, may switch to shell rotella

Rotella is incredibly good oil, regardless of how inexpensive it is. 
The reason Rotella is priced so low is because they sell a metric fook ton of the stuff, so it keeps the price down. Earth moving equipment and lots of farmmachinery use wet clutches, so it's good for our clutches, too. Semi's use the stuff, too, end those engines are huge heat producers- especially with today's strict emission standards. Stop in any truck stop along any interstate...there's Rotella. 
 
We used to run some pretty hard hitting drag cars (1,000+ hp) and were having problems losing lifters while using Pennzoil Racing oil. Tried going full syn with Mobil1 and thing's weren't much better. Swapped to Rotella on the recommendation of my machinist and never lost another lifter that season. After two more seasons of absolutely zero failures, I've been a Rotella fan ever since.
 
Never have tried their syn. Their conventional has proven itself to me. At $12.99/gallon I'll just change it more often if I'm worried. $0.02

[rider]

Amsoil 10w-40 Metric synthetic, may go 20-50 in the summer as I use that in other bikes. Just bought the bike used at 7k miles and dumped P O's Yamalube 10w-40.
 
As previously mentioned frequency of change is probably more relevant then what brand, more than one study has shown that oil used in a motorcycle that shares oil between eng./primary & tranny will shear the oil molecules and drop to about 1/2 original viscosity at around 1500 miles, cars don't run their oil through a transmission so not as bad.

Does a drop in viscosity also lower an oils ability to lubricate or does it just get thinner? 

 
Here's a pretty basic article on viscosity:
https://www.motorstate.com/oilviscosity.htm
Going by that, I'll stay with the manufacturer's recommended viscosity. You can send in a sample for analysis if you want to go that far. You can get a ton of info on your engine's health from those also.
Now just to figure out what brand is best at maintaining it. Highway? City commuting? Canyon carving? Track day? Summer riding? Winter riding? Synth or dino? Rotella T6 or Amsoil or Motul or Yamalube or??? This is like calculus. And I failed calculus.
Oil threads - yay!

[Beemer]

Do all oils break down to half viscosity at 1500 miles, do some hold up better than others? I feel like I need to be doing oil changes every 400 or so miles now to keep my engine safe.  :-S

[level41]

I think brands of oil do less than the viscosity.
Most oils, even from lower or less known brands, are better than the top brands from a few decades ago!
 
I was thinking about going lower in viscosity, however that wouldn't be good for the transmission cogs.
I wonder why anyone would need anything beyond 10W40 in their bikes (unless they've got some serious miles on them, or are leaking like an old diesel truck of the 1940s).
If the FZ had separate transmission oil, I would have put 0W20 in the engine.
From the research I did, the engine temps don't get hot enough to actually damage the 0W20 (it'll need to get 275F before the oil starts breaking down).
With separate transmission oil, you could put 0W20 in the engine, and 80W120 in the transmission, and don't need to change the transmission oil for the first 25-35k miles; plus, the engine oil would last longer as well...
 
But alas, the FZ uses the same oil for engine and transmission, which makes it a tiny bit harder to make the engine run at it's peak efficiency, and needing more oil changes as well.
 
 

[markstertt]

I think brands of oil do less than the viscosity. Most oils, even from lower or less known brands, are better than the top brands from a few decades ago!
 
I was thinking about going lower in viscosity, however that wouldn't be good for the transmission cogs.
I wonder why anyone would need anything beyond 10W40 in their bikes (unless they've got some serious miles on them, or are leaking like an old diesel truck of the 1940s).
If the FZ had separate transmission oil, I would have put 0W20 in the engine.
From the research I did, the engine temps don't get hot enough to actually damage the 0W20 (it'll need to get 275F before the oil starts breaking down).
With separate transmission oil, you could put 0W20 in the engine, and 80W120 in the transmission, and don't need to change the transmission oil for the first 25-35k miles; plus, the engine oil would last longer as well...
 
But alas, the FZ uses the same oil for engine and transmission, which makes it a tiny bit harder to make the engine run at it's peak efficiency, and needing more oil changes as well.
 

It's also important to take into consideration the design specs of the engine as different materials, coatings and clearances will determine oil specs so be careful when straying to far from manufactures oil recommendations. The FZ-07 has a totally plain bearing bottom end, rods and crankshaft, which is a departure from earlier standard Japanese practices where rolling element (ball, roller, needle) bearings were common especially for the crank main bearings...with these rolling element bearings a little oil is better than to much oil....with a plain bearing big end (FZ-07) you need a continuous supply and pressure of oil to keep from metal to metal contact and you need an oil that maintains it's viscosity to keep the plain bearing riding on the oil film and not touching the crank journals and to also be able to carry the heat away generated in the process. To heavy a viscosity for the application can create more drag, hence more heat in the bearing and to thin a viscosity may not be able to maintain the film (parts separation) strength at high temps and may also flow out of the bearing clearances faster then the correct wt. oil, to work satisfactorily an engine needs to be designed for the intended oil and vice versa. 
My 2015 FZ-07 had 7000 miles when I bought it and was using Yamalube 10-40 which I dumped and installed Amsoil 20w-50 since I run it in other bikes. Shortly, in a search for smoother shifts, I decided to try Redline 10w-40 but couldn't tell any difference really. On an educated hunch I experimented with a new clutch pack with the Redline still in the sump, shifts were immediately smoother, less clunky but slowly over about 700 miles, more or less,  returned to the original feel what I surmised felt like the results of a slightly draggy clutch. I just recently changed to Amsoil 10w-40 Metric and after about 100 miles, I feel that the shifting has returned to the new clutch pack feel. Something else that surprisingly seemed to make a difference and surprised me was when I removed the shift lever and cleaned and lubed it's pivot point, it felt a little stiff with the old factory grease in there and notably smoother with some new waterproof grease...crazy maybe but there it is.
 
 
 
 

[Zeus]

I went from Yamalube to Mobile1 full synthetic, both weights 1040 and my butt dyno is telling me I've lost low end TQ.  What gives?

[1tondriver]

29 minutes ago, Zeus said:

I went from Yamalube to Mobile1 full synthetic, both weights 1040 and my butt dyno is telling me I've lost low end TQ.  What gives?

Your butt dyno is out of calibration

[Zeus]

7 minutes ago, 1tondriver said:

Your butt dyno is out of calibration

haha most likely

[NikitaUCLA]

My oil change interval is once a year or 10,000 miles.   

[Ubet]

I've owned 54 vehicles of which 24 were motorcycles (I'm 62).  Our oldie but goodie 2004 Mitsubishi Endeavor has almost 343K miles.  I've never had an oil related issue and have used many oil brands from Pennzoil to Castrol to Mobil 1.  I switched to using nothing but Mobil 1 synthetic for cars about 20 years ago.  My change interval is around every 5k miles.  Keeping up with regular oil changes is critical.  I currently maintain six vehicles.   In my 2018 MT-07, I'm using Rotella T6 5W-40 synthetic (designed for wet clutches). I changed the factory oil at 600 miles and my next change will be at 2k miles and then at every 2k.

[scat2me]

I Like Bel-Ray  always use a new crush washer and OEM Filter

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/bel-ray-exp-synthetic-ester-blend-4t-engine-oil

 

[bugsinteeth]

I agree with Cruizin'  the INTERVAL is much more important than WHAT you use, and I believe that it should be changed every 1000 miles..... yes ONE THOUSAND.....

 

this oil ALSO services the gearbox, and if you think for one minute the gearbox isn't putting cuttings in the oil, think again folks...... and one other thing, the gears also cut the fibers of the oil, and it loses it's ability to "Cushion" the parts.....and the viscosity, like mentioned before, will drop....

change it !  ...  just use Diesel Big-rig Truck oil OR BETTER .....oils cheap, engines and trans's are expensive......

Rotella T-6 is a good full synthetic oil, and  Valvoline Premium Blue is probably the cheapest Truck oil I would use.....

do NOT use Delo....too low a detergent... I made my livin' building high performance Cummins Truck engines, and I tore too many apart that had Delo in them, and were BLACK inside    I wouldn't put it in a lawn mower.

 

and the harder you hammer on it, the oftener it needs got outta there.....

Just My Opinion, YMMV.....

 

Edited October 12, 2019 by bugsinteeth

[Beemer]

I'm putting an end to this "OIL" thread ...

I know, knives just don't have the right effect.

 

[Jay Z]

Rotella ftw. How awesome my car,truck and 3 bikes all use the same oil. Amazing. 

[klx678]

On 3/6/2016 at 1:17 AM, markstertt said:

I'm no chemist and can't remember the correct terminology but after the 1500 or so miles the oils ability to lubricate was greatly reduced as the polymer chains were sheared into small pieces, lowering the oils ability to keep metal from metal. Perhaps someone else can clarify better but I did enough research back awhile to conclude that motorcycles using one oil for everything were a convenient compromise and it was better not to push it with 3000 miles or more. 

Old post, but worth answering... and none of it is referring to racing conditions...

So get a chemist to test the oil.   We did that back in 1983, had a customer that ran Kendall car oil in his Gold Wing, changed oil about every 2500 miles.  We sent a sample out for testing.  Sure it was broken down significantly compared to new, but the results were that it was totally still serviceable for the application and doing fine.    I never looked into oil testing, but that's how heavy equipment users gauge when to change oil and/or do service, based on the contents and condition of the oil sample tested.

The toughest part on all the oil threads - no one knows just how long an oil can survive on the street.  There is little destructive testing done.   No place I have read gives any information on how much break down is "worn out".    One of the more interesting shows I watched had the synthetic oil from the racers drained and used in the transport trucks, then that oil used in their riding mowers.   Another was the old Mobil 1 oil commercial where they fry the oil in pans, the mineral oil essentially burned down, the Mobil 1 still looking like new. 

In fact the first Mobil 1 advertising was advertising it as a 15,000 mile oil in a period of time when the oil change interval claims were 3,000 miles.   They eventually dropped that claim, likely because few people wanted to believe them.  Now manufacturers are calling for 6000-8000 mile oil changes with mineral based oils.  Mobil 1 is back with the high mileage long life claims.  Here is the latest from Mobil:

At ExxonMobil, we set out to develop the most advanced motor oil ever. Our goal: Provide drivers with the convenience of going one full year or 20,000 miles between oil changes* with a cutting-edge formulation that extends oil life, maximizes wear protection and prevents harmful deposits.

*Whichever comes first.   (click here for more)

 Much of the oil change interval information found on the internet from individuals is based on "ancient" history, over a half century old - following what was recommended and done in the 50s instead of the new millenium.  Doing what "my father taught me", that he would tell you "my father taught me".  The oil, metallurgy, and machining of the 1950s does not hold a candle that of the 2000-teens, yet the oil change intervals from that time are still promoted as the thing to do.   Maybe we should also be tearing down our engines at 20,000 miles based on the same thought process.   

The point being 1950s oil change intervals don't suit 2010+ oils and engines any more than the engine rebuild intervals.  If changing oil at 2000 miles or less keep it for the riding mower, won't waste it!  Heck  that reminds me of the 70s and 80s when people considered any motorcycle with over 10,000 miles as "high mileage" and it was near impossible to sell anything with over 20,000 miles with the exception of Gold Wings - and then they were considered "high mileage".   The old days are just that... the old days.  Much of what applied then doesn't apply now.  Cars were "high mileage" with over 40,000 miles.  How's that working theses days?

Regardless, what I have personally gleaned was most any modern oil will work for average street riders and most riders change oil more often than needed.      Their choice and that's fine.  Personally all Iook for is the JASO-MA rating on the oil, I try to change around 5000 miles, that way if I screw up and delay a few thousand I'm still good to go - and probably changing sooner than needed.

Of course the Valvoline Oil Change shop wants me to change my semi-synthetic high mile oil in my truck every 3000 miles, I'm sure they would like the extra income.  My odometer quit working at 120,000 about three years back, so I go about once a year, figure I don't do 8000 miles in a year.  Still going strong and never down on oil.

Now wasn't that fun.   It's still winter and crappy out, otherwise I'd do something with the bike or go for a ride...

Edited January 2, 2020 by klx678

[shinyribs]

Good point on having the oil tested. Without an oil analysis all were can do is monitor things like the color of the oil, and that really doesn't tell us very much.

Test said, when I first got my 07 i was running Rotella and started getting worried by how fast my oil was turning black. I changed the oil very often at first (100-200 miles at a time) and finally started going to about 1000-1500 miles on a batch of oil. It was unusual to see the oil going completely black in 500 miles or so. 

 

Long story short, I sent the idea Rotella to Blackstone labs and learned that, while the oil was clean from particulates ( meaning parts weren't eating themselves alive), the viscosity was just dead. I started using Yamalube and Blackstone has been raving about how much better that oil had been looking on oil reports. I'm only at around 17k miles now, but I have oil reports for the entire life of the bikes, side from a couple 100-200 miles batches from when I first brought it home.

The Yamalube 10w40 conventional starts losing viscosity pretty quick around 3000-3500 miles according to Blackstone. I shoot for 3000 miles oil changes, or 2500 mile oil changes if I've been doing a lot of interstate/sustained high rpm riding. Blackstone tells me the viscosity dropoff is not severe and that's it's better than most oils they see, but I change it anyway. 

My oil no longer goes black. It goes dark, but it's still got an amber hue in the sight glass, though. And Blackstone remarks on how low my wear metals are. It's always way below the other averages in their database. 

So, I've left my trusted Rotella and now use Yamalube only. It's about $20/gallon at the local bike shop. I just pick up a Yamaha filter while I'm there for around $4. I could save a couple bucks, probably, but I think the Yamaha stuff is very fairly priced and the oil analysis' have sealed my faith in these products. The analysis costs a few bucks more than the oil change, so I probably won't do them forever, but it's nice to have actual data. 

Fwiw, I also moved away from Rotella in my old XR and XL bikes. After many years of good service I started to notice a strong oil smell when riding them. They're no reason for that so I worried it was handling the heat of those engines very well anymore. I had been given a bottle of Honda GN4 oil that I had never used ( always kinda rolled my eyes at guys that used motorcycle branded oil that matched their brand of bike), but I gave it a try. It's been great. Noticably smoother shifting, NOTICABLY cooler and quieter running and no more smelling of boiling oil fumes. Again, results from Blackstone showed a huge improvement in oil viscosity breakdown.

I don't know who is making Yamalube for Yamaha, and I don't know who is making GN4 for Honda, but I know it works extremely well in the bikes they recommend it for. It's almost like the Japanese gurus who build the world's best engines know what kind of oil package works best in their machines! I may be wasting a few bucks per oil change on my bikes, but the proven results are worth it. And it if puts a few more dollars in Yamaha's pockets and helps support my local bike shop... I'm cool with that, too. 

 

I forgot about this thread and kinda feel bad how I bragged on Rotella earlier. Honestly, it was my true opinion at the time. But now, with the help of actual data, I don't even run Rotella in my old lawnmower anymore. It doesn't seem to withstand the heat of air cooled engines or the shearing action of motorcycle transmissions like it used to years ago. I used to use that stuff in a lot of old CB's with no issues at all, but for a few bucks more for Yamalube, it's my new go-to for any liquid cooled engine. And GN4 goes in my air cooled small engines ( mowers, tillers...)