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delbee1

Hilltop Motorcycles

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delbee1
So I've been looking for a long time in which re-flash to get. I've looked at ECUnleashed and Flash Tune, also thought about sending my ECU to USA to Nels to get hime to re-flash.
After speaking with someone else they recommended Hilltop Motorcycles. They have their own software which they load on to the bike which does not over write the original map and is adaptive to if I took it to have dyno'd and the software installed but only have my exhaust and DNA filter and then added the DNA filter top the software would re-calibrate itself to the correct fuelling. The software was actually designed for TT bikes. Their software also does not effect the bike ECO mode etc or the running with the o2 sensor in.
Heres a link to their website and a video of what they have done....
http://www.hilltopmotorcycles.co.uk/

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2wheeldynoworks
Let us know how it goes! Get some graphs and write us up a review, no hard feelings :) We do a lot of business internationally all over the world so we are quite used to it, the only things is we can't guarantee 2 day shipping without it costing more than the flash!

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delbee1
Let us know how it goes! Get some graphs and write us up a review, no hard feelings :) We do a lot of business internationally all over the world so we are quite used to it, the only things is we can't guarantee 2 day shipping without it costing more than the flash!
Thank you very much. It's a shame you guys are so far away, but I cant be without the bike for long as I need it to get to work I am interested in the software they upload though, as said its adaptive, thats the part that interests me the most.
I've seen someone else who has the software on an MT07 and they have exhaust (no sure which one), air filter and filter cover and have over 73hp at the wheels.
I will do a review, I just got my DNA in the post so will be looking to take time off work to get the bike to them, its about a 2 1/2 hour ride from me.
My mods power wise are Akra Ti baffle out, DNA Filter and filter top
 

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2wheeldynoworks
Let us know how it goes! Get some graphs and write us up a review, no hard feelings :) We do a lot of business internationally all over the world so we are quite used to it, the only things is we can't guarantee 2 day shipping without it costing more than the flash!
Thank you very much. It's a shame you guys are so far away, but I cant be without the bike for long as I need it to get to work I am interested in the software they upload though, as said its adaptive, thats the part that interests me the most.
I've seen someone else who has the software on an MT07 and they have exhaust (no sure which one), air filter and filter cover and have over 73hp at the wheels.
I will do a review, I just got my DNA in the post so will be looking to take time off work to get the bike to them, its about a 2 1/2 hour ride from me.
My mods power wise are Akra Ti baffle out, DNA Filter and filter top

the more interesting part of that 73hp bike would be, where did it start from, what gains did it get to get there? if it started at 70 and went to 73 vs starting at 50 and going to 73, makes a big difference and tells ya where they're dyno sits as far as reading high or low. 

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delbee1
the more interesting part of that 73hp bike would be, where did it start from, what gains did it get to get there? if it started at 70 and went to 73 vs starting at 50 and going to 73, makes a big difference and tells ya where they're dyno sits as far as reading high or low. 
There starting point on the bike I saw was 67.74 bhp I do know dyno's vary, and I know a bit about dyno manipulation as well, heres a very interesting video done by a tuning company in the UK to show how easy it is to manipulate dyno results as some car tuners claim far too much horsepower.

 

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2wheeldynoworks
Sounds pretty awesome!
 
And yes unfortunately dyno's can be manipulated very easily and fooled by bikes with the right knowledge of tricks of the trade even easier and less noticeable than moving the intake air temp sensor around

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delbee1
Sounds pretty awesome! 
And yes unfortunately dyno's can be manipulated very easily and fooled by bikes with the right knowledge of tricks of the trade even easier and less noticeable than moving the intake air temp sensor around
Yeah I will be interested to see the results, hopefully will have it done in 2 weeks and will give a review and dyno results. This was taken from another forum where they were discussing Hilltop
"I spoke with the guys at Hilltop Motorcycles. Apparently, this remap is a bespoke piece of software that they have developed and is unique to Hilltop. Once installed, the bike fires up using the original Yamaha ECU map but then notices the new divert to their software. The bike then runs using their bespoke software.
This very clever software is self-learning, intuitive and continually monitoring the ever changing conditions that the engine encounters, whether it be high altitude, different exhaust, slight variances in fuel quality etc. It makes adjustments many times a second to optimise the engine performance. Whatever changes confront the engine, the mapping recognises them, balances and optimises them to keep it on peak performance and maintains optimum air/fuel ratio. It is not a fixed re-map. It is live, adaptive and active. Very cunning. This brilliant piece of software was originally developed for professional racers.
The total package costs £360 and Hilltop encourage you to be in attendance during the whole operation, so that you can see exactly what happens and ask questions. Alternatively you could get your bike transported to them by courier.
They seem like really nice guys with whom you could completely trust your prizes possession. They are now on my own list for this fascinating upgrade. I am sure that my wife will be so thrilled to know what to get me for Christmas now!"
 

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delbee1
So booked in for my reflash next Tuesdayat 9am, Its 117 miles so better leave early to avoid traffic. I've also looked online for a Shell petrol station near by as I'll fill up when I get there. I only use their 97ron V-Power.
I'll upload a review, dyno print out, dyno photos and maybe a video when I get back. I'm looking forward to the ride home  :)

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mjh937
I admit to not knowing much about ECU's, but I find it surprising that the ECU is capable of making dynamic changes. I thought it was basically a ROM that had a preprogrammed output based on the input parameters. It seems.like it should not be capable of modifying itself. Perhaps @2wheeldynoworks can help with my confusion if they have the time to explain.

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delbee1
I admit to not knowing much about ECU's, but I find it surprising that the ECU is capable of making dynamic changes. I thought it was basically a ROM that had a preprogrammed output based on the input parameters. It seems.like it should not be capable of modifying itself. Perhaps @2wheeldynoworks can help with my confusion if they have the time to explain.
This was taken from another forum where Geoff briefly explains what he does.
"I do not alter or amend the original engine management software. Since 2003 i've been writing engine management firmware it has developed in such a way now that it has now has the capability of auto learning and adjusting the airfuel ratio automatically. This is done by monitoring air pressure, temperature and humidity by sensors that are already in place in the air box. In cars they call this a matter flow sensor. I originally designed the system for use at the Isle of Man TT and now adapted to be used on the road bikes and racing bikes. My software is copyright protected, the keys in which I use to access all the factory keys this is why dealers cannot see what I do. I have invested over £100,000 in the development of my firmware and years of research I don't take the original maps and alter them"
I have had my bike done and will be doing a follow up review shortly :)
 
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delbee1
Ok so it was the morning of the 16th Feb, I set off for the 120 mile ride at 5:30am and I had my DNA filter and lid to fit and would not ride all that way knowing how lean it would be running, especially as I have an Akra Ti with baffle out.
The ride there was interesting, the bike air temp sensor read -4C so hate to think what the wind chill was. My visor was condensing and I'm sure I had little icicles on my hair.
So I arrived at a petrol station 5 mins round the corner, bought myself a coffee and changed over the air filter and lid.
I arrived at Hilltop and spoke to Geoff who expained what he does. He partitions part of the ECU memory and uploads his own firmware which he then puts a divert in the bios. He proceded to take the bike in to the dyno and run it up to see what it was doing. As I suspected running lean as hell. He then plugged in to the bike OBD (if thats what its called on a bike) to upload.
Once the firmware had been uploaded he run the bike for 5 minutes and then did 3 runs on the dyno. Each run the power and torque increased, with a smooth as hell torque curve. He then pulled the bike off the dyno and said once I've given it a good ride would still increase slightly more. All pulls on the dyno were carried out in 6th gear.The 3rd run figures were 69.24hp @ 8157.4RPM and 51.52ft/lb @ 5592.7RPM.
I was a little skeptical at first, but his firmware seems to work like Autotune on the PC 5, at no time did he carry out any mapping.
So the bike pulled great and the ECO riding mode worked just as it did before he did his work so no problems with the o2 sensor, but was I 100% happy.......... answer is no.
Although I think his firmware is great and you have peace of mind knowing that its always going to keep the fuelling spot on it didnt do all I wanted it to and dont believe its the best option for the MT/FZ 07.
The firmware does nothing for the decal so still cuts the fuel coming off the throttle. Other than sorting out the fuelling this is one of the main things I wanted to reduce or eliminate as it gets on my nerves. No matter how smooth you try to be you come off that throttle slightly too much the front dives as that huge parachute slows you down. I know that could slightly be reduced with upgraded suspension but I want the bike to be smoother. I dont think the firmware adjust timing either.
Last week I took the long ride back up to Hilltop, got a refund and had his firmware removed. I am now booked in to Seton Tuning to have a Flash Tune map done. I am taking the bike down on 1st April and leaving it there for a week for them to spend some decent time doing a map.
Would I recommend Hilltop.... Yes, on other bikes I think it would work great, as you make mods the fuelling would sort itself out, you could have baffle in, then take it out for a weekend ride then re-fit without the need for constant reflashes, its just not for the 07.
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dmf
Really nice to read your write up and experience with Hilltop. I heard about their software a few months ago and was very interested in the idea of a auto-adjusting tune.
 
It's bittersweet to hear that it didn't work out for you - I wanted it to be something great, but glad I don't have to figure out how to get my bike or ECU to England from NY! 
 
Thanks again for the write up.

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delbee1
Really nice to read your write up and experience with Hilltop. I heard about their software a few months ago and was very interested in the idea of a auto-adjusting tune. 
It's bittersweet to hear that it didn't work out for you - I wanted it to be something great, but glad I don't have to figure out how to get my bike or ECU to England from NY! 
 
Thanks again for the write up.
Hey mate, no worries at all. His software is a great bit of kit and has had some good results on other bikes I just feel it isnt for our bike with the lack of on/off throttle smoothness, which is a real shame, but nothing ventured nothing gained as they say. There is another guy who has the software on his 07 and he seems happy with it.
 

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2wheeldynoworks
Sorry to hear it didn't live up to the expectation. Was hoping it would as well.

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delbee1
Sorry to hear it didn't live up to the expectation. Was hoping it would as well.
Like I said, nothing ventured nothing gained and you never know how things will work out unless you try. I think I was intrigued and a little sceptical of his firmware working and how it works. I’ve seen it works but would love to know exactly how it works.
Possibly if that could be combined with a reflash so the injector decal and timing could be done would be awesome as you could change things on the bike without having more reflashes. Guess we’ll never know though as I didn’t want to pay for both lol.
Just wish I was a little closer to you, keep up the good work though mate :)
 
 

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synth
My MT-07 has Akro exhaust with shortened baffle plus DNA air filter and top plate (Yamaha snorkel filter top discarded). Like many other forum members, I have followed the reasoning and progress of ECU re-mapping, and was particularly interested in the findings of delbee1 in his search for smoother on/off throttle response, less severe over-run engine braking plus more power. I, too, hoped that better fuelling would eliminate the intermittent tendency for the 07 to cut out whilst idling. I have kept in close contact with delbee1, who has been a terrific source of knowledge and experience and immensely helpful. Consequently I have followed his route and just had my MT-07 re-flashed at Seton Tuning, near Colchester, UK.
 
Phil Seton is a hugely experienced tuner and rider of race bikes and completely understands how to correctly interpret dynamometer readings. He did a base run first, then studied the graphs. He then removed the ECU and re-flashed it from his software on his desk-top computer. He then did another dyno run with the re-flashed ECU, studied the graphs and air/fuel ratios, removed the ECU again, modified the mapping slightly on his desktop and then repeated the whole process. He did this five times, finally achieving really sensible level A/F ratios and significantly improved torque and power curves throughout the entire rev range. He also advanced the ignition timing by nearly 8 degrees without pinging, which also improved performance. The new software removes the fuel over-run cut-off feature and allows a minimal idle mixture to remain each time the throttle is closed.
 
In the vital 4000rpm to 8500rpm range, the torque has increased by up to 8% , the power by about 6%. At idle, my old air/fuel ratios were running far too lean, increasing the tendency to stall. This has been corrected. Before the re-map, my fuelling got progressively richer above 8000rpm dipping to 10.5:1 @ 10,000rpm. Now it stays at around 12.7 right up to the rev limit and the power and torque improvements are obvious from the graphs. If I was racing and keeping the throttle pinned open against it's stop, then maybe Phil would have erred slightly richer. For my style of riding he has optimised the fuelling perfectly. He is a clever guy.
 
I rode the bike and immediately noticed how smoothly it took up the throttle - no snatching or sudden transitions. It is silky smooth in slow traffic and so much more pleasurable to ride. Opening the throttle @ 4000rpm in 4th gear for a quick overtake unleashed massively more thrust than before. Crikey! This thing really goes now! The mid-range hit is stunning. "Can't stop smiling" doesn't even come close! 
 
So I have gained all round. It doesn't stall, it creeps along in traffic without snatching, it has a more civilised deceleration when closing throttle from speed and it goes like stink when I open the throttle. Brilliant!  Totally brilliant.
 
I unreservedly recommend the skills of Phil Seton. It you are UK-based then you are in safe hands with Phil. He has invested a lot into the Flash Tune technology package and he knows how to make it work for you. He has re-mapped a few MT-07's now and they have all worked like mine. It transforms the bike and releases its full performance potential. Granted it would invalidate warranty if you have any but it lets the bike perform how Yamaha made it capable of doing, before ever-impossible emission regulations suffocated it.
 
Here is the Dyno Pro Graph:-Image%2013-07-2016%20at%2009.42_zpscuprdtr7.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
 
[/img]
 
 
 

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backstreethero
Having read some forum hype I took my bike to Hilltop, but couldn’t tell any difference afterwards, so I got a refund. The bloke there hasn’t got access to any bike’s ecu tables to do a proper remap or adjust things like decelleration fuel cutoff, eliminate or adjust closed loop, change fan temps, idle speed etc etc. There are lots of Hilltop disciples on UKGser forum, but I thinks some of them are Geoff himself. Others have also concluded that it’s actually a hoax and the dyno prints are frigged because they show ludicrous power increases. Why he does dyno runs is a mystery as he doesn’t do dyno tuning (not in 45 minutes with just 3 wot runs in top gear!). Make sure you’re sure you know what you’re spending your £360 on.
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