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level41

FZ-04?

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level41
Do you think Yamaha would ever come out with a FZ-04?
 
Same as the FZ-07, only a 399cc engine, probably top speed close to 115-120MPH, a bit less acceleration torque, but much better on gas!
If they did, would you be interested in it?
 
I would love to see an FZ-04, with a small wind breaker for the highway rides, and a place to mount some trunks on.
 
I think a FZ-04 would hit the sweet spot on what people in USA need for longer rides, and to have power enough to ride at the legal upper speed limits (unlike a 250 or 300cc bike, that I'd have to wring the throttle in order to keep the needle above 85MPH).
 
I love the FZ-07 in every aspect, except it's too much bike for me (too fast), and gas mileage isn't that great on these bikes...
I know some might like the speed; I'm more into finding a comfortable, quality, affordable and lightweight bike to do longer trips with.

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bikergeek
MT-03
 
 
The question is if it will make it to North America

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sorkyah
I would take an mt03 if it came to the states
 
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ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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Beemer
Just off the top of my head, why not get an Yamaha SR 400? Throw a wind screen on it, slap on a rear rack, rear bag or soft saddle bags and you got what you want but without the looks of an FZ-07. You may be waiting a long time for what you want.

Beemer

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booboobusfz07
If that's what you're looking for try a cbr500f. Great mpg. Not as fast as our fz07s.
Really tho I think those concerns wouldn't be enough to stay away from the fz07. It's only fast if you want it to be. Learn proper throttle control an it'll never be a problem. The mpg really isn't bad on these bikes. I've never gotten below 50.

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yamahaha
Fzo4 would be a big hit here. Our basic insurance almost doubles over 400cc.  All we really have are scooters and a dual purpose in this size. And the new ktm.[div]
[/div][div]I had a friend with a mid-70s 400 Honda and he had rode it across country. It did a decent job keeping up with the bigger bikes. Good size for an all round bike on the cheap. [/div]

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level41
The SR400, though larger in CC than a Rebel250, is just about as fast. 85MPH max. It's a single cylinder, not really performance optimized; and fuel mileage is so-so on it as well!
 
The reason why an FZ-04 would speak to me, is because the even lighter weight than an FZ-07.
The CB500F is 425LBS.
 
I'd like to see an MT-03 as well!
Only IF it has more than 300cc, because 300cc just doesn't cut it on the longer interstate rides (unless you like riding at 10k RPM for hours on end...).
 
Many say the FZ-07 has great gas mileage. I don't know if 50-60MPG is considered that great; when some other bikes (250 ccs that do upto 80MPH) can reach upto almost double that MPG!

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gregjet
Bikes need fairing more as they get smaller. The limit on speed is wind resistance almost entirely. The rider doesn't change size as the bike gets smaller so is a constant and is the biggest drag on a motorcycle.
The MT03 is relatively heavy for it's size as well. Still could be a fun project bike overall. Concentrating on reducing weight, getting what HP you could , making the brakes and suspension as perfect as possible so you can carry more corner speed. If it as a steel frame it could be a bit of a task to get it light enough.
At that capacity my choice would be the KTM390 Duke.
The CBR500R is a very nice bike but again too heavy for it's capacity. Beautiful silky smooth motor though. They are racing them in Europe as a single class bike.

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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pattonme
The 2016 MT-03 is just the R3 without bodywork. The MT-03 from a handful of years ago is something else entirely. Why they re-used the name I don't know. Seems to needless confusion. A couple more years and I expect the R3/MT03 will be pushing 400cc. they do need to just go back and do a 400cc I4 screamer like they used to do back in the 80's. Aahhh FZR400RRSP. be still my lusting heart.

bannerfans_1095431.jpg

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gregjet
Same as the CBR250R. The current single commuter bike is a tiny shadow of the F3(Japan) bike of the same name. 250cc 4cyl. inline 20,000rpm little rocketship ( I raced one of it's slightly later children the CBR250RR as well at one stage). Amazing little race bike. Bloody aweful on the road. The new one should have been a CB250RS ( which I also had and really loved despite the complete lack of brakes or power). I nearly bought a second hand MT03 until I saw how much it weighed.
If you are going back to the 400 you might want to re-orientate to the Honda RVF/VFR400. My favourite motor of all time. Incredible bike ( stupid carbies). They still race them here in the Formula 3 cat.
Now this is a 250 ( for the terminally insane). Including very wet track
DSC_0180.jpg

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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maybe07
I wouldn't be interested in an FZ-04, as I think that the FZ-07 can be a starter bike when handled sensibly. I had a CBR250R for my first bike and commuter for two years and I loved it. It was very inexpensive and I almost (whew) got one of the Honda 500 models before deciding on the FZ-07.

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Beemer
I see what you want, like me and many others, you want your dream bike. I personally don't think an FZ-04 with only 399 cc and made just like the FZ-07 is going to have a top end of 115-120 mph. It would very likely be screaming at around 105-110 and buzzing pretty good at 85 mph. A 500-550 cc FZ-07 type bike (FZ-05) could do around 115-120 and wouldn't be buzzing quite as much at around 85 mph. but it's not going to be as light as you want and you can probably forget about getting anywhere around 80 mpg. with it. Sounds like a nice bike that you want and maybe some day Yamaha can produce something like that. 
 
 
 
 

Beemer

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level41
I'm not expecting 250cc MPGs out of a 400cc.
But a well geared 400cc, with overdrive gears in 5th and 6th, could get a nice 75MPG US, while rev quite nicely at 85MPH.
Going into 4th gear (at ~7.5k RPM) it could easily do 100MPH, while topping out at 9k RPM doing 120MPH or something.
Doing a nice 40MPH at 3k RPM, and perhaps at 2.2k RPM in 6th; which could give a nice overdrive doing 80MPH at 4.4k RPM.
 

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jetgirl
I would like to see an FZ 04 but I wouldn't want one. Well, maybe if it were my first bike. My 04 Ninja 250 didn't quite get 75 mpg so my FZ at 689 ccs feels like it gets good gas mileage for its size. Yeah I can get 65mpg sometimes.

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qldnat
[attachment id=1260" thumbnail="1][attachment id=1261" thumbnail="1]I'm guessing this isn't available in the States then, judging by people's comments?
 
 

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sorkyah
It is... but it isnt called the mt-03.... and its bot a naked bike

ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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level41
[attachment id=1260" thumbnail="1][attachment id=1261" thumbnail="1]I'm guessing this isn't available in the States then, judging by people's comments? 

 
 
Nope.
The MT-03 was actually a single cylinder, manufactured until 2013, I believe.
It was a rather clunky, crappy bike from what I read..
 
They've taken design clues from it, and developed an MT-25 for Asia.
Like the R25, it would never have caught on over here, due to the faster roads. However, the R3 is selling like hotcakes over here, and an MT03/FZ03 would sell as well!
My only review from the MT-03 was of an English guy. He said that the bike didn't top 145kmh. That's totally disappointing! However, it might be limited. With limiter removed, and perhaps a larger front sprocket, it might actually get upto 175kmh (is my guesstimate).
 
I need to read up more about the bike, but it seems to compete with the cb300f (slow), Kawasaki z300 (uncomfortable), and KTM 390 (uncomfortable), as being somewhere similar performance as the z300, but more comfort. Just not too fond of the forward lean seating ergonomics. Seems like they kept almost the same angle as the R3...
 

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Beemer
I'm sorry, not trying to argue but when you compare real stats you get a different picture of the 399 cc bike you're dreaming about. A single cyl. SR400 is rated at 66 mpg. and the FZ-07 (689 cc) is 290 cc more than a your FZ-04 and is rated at 120 mph. so I don't think the standard tall gearing on an FZ-04 is going to produce 75 mpg. or 120 mph. from any of the gears. I would have to see it to believe it. I agree it would still make for a nice size, small bike.

Beemer

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Beemer
I just got back from a ride and checked a couple things. You said, "Going into 4th gear (at ~7.5k RPM) it could easily do 100MPH, while topping out at 9k RPM doing 120MPH or something."
I tested my FZ-07 in 4th gear and at 9k rpm it only hit 90 so I rest my case. An FZ-04 configured just like an FZ-07 just won't have enough power to do what you hope it would.

Beemer

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ravenlord
You appear to want a 300lb, aerodynamic, naked, tall geared, good mid range torque, 120MPH or 200km/h, 400cc motorcycle. You also seem to be under the impression that it is not only possible, but feasible for a company to sell for a profit, or minimal loss.
 
The only way to make the FZ-07 lighter is with the use of aluminum. Which is money.
Aerodynamic means fairings and a leaned over riding position. Which you dislike.
Tall gearing needs power to be of any use. Which a 400cc is incapable of producing without revs.
Midrange torque needs displacement or turbo. Which puts it out of engine size, or weight.
400cc just isn't capable of developing the power needed to sustain a 500lb windsail at 200km/h without revving, or being turbo'd.
 
I am sorry, but you can either have the FZ-07 which is as close to perfect for what you describe, or live in a fantasy land where physics and money need not apply.
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gregjet
A vfr/RVF400 will go close

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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level41
Depending on how you gear it.
The FZ-07 is restricted in most cases.
 
In 4th gear it's also restricted due to RPM, but if you re-gear it to 1k RPM every 10MPH, you'd essentially do 100MPH at 10k RPM.
That's about what my carbureted GS500F does in 4th. In 5th it goes 112MPH.

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Beemer
Depending on how you gear it. The FZ-07 is restricted in most cases.
 
In 4th gear it's also restricted due to RPM, but if you re-gear it to 1k RPM every 10MPH, you'd essentially do 100MPH at 10k RPM.
That's about what my carbureted GS500F does in 4th. In 5th it goes 112MPH.
I see. You're saying if they had put better gears in the FZ-07 it could go faster and I believe that's true since your GS500F is rated at 115mph. but if your  GS500F is geared correctly for top speed as you imply and only has a top speed of 112-115 mph. how is a 399 cc FZ-04, geared for top speed like your 500 cc bike (which is a nice bike, btw), going to have a higher top speed of 120 mph, as you claimed, with less h.p. and less wind protection? I'm wiggin' here in the rabbit hole, help to understand your logic!

Beemer

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ravenlord
Depending on how you gear it. The FZ-07 is restricted in most cases.
 
In 4th gear it's also restricted due to RPM, but if you re-gear it to 1k RPM every 10MPH, you'd essentially do 100MPH at 10k RPM.
That's about what my carbureted GS500F does in 4th. In 5th it goes 112MPH.
Tall gearing requires power.
 
A 400cc motorcycle is not able to produce the power needed to propel a motorcycle with a high drag coefficient to 200km/h at low RPM. The most powerful 400cc production bike made 57hp. It revved out to 13,500rpm. It was a V4 performance engine. That bike still wouldn't have the power needed to do 200km/h at 7,500rpm. On the same note, to add more RPM and cylinders you lose the fuel economy.
 
You are asking for something that isn't possible.
 

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