pattonme Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 For free-wheeling debate/discussion of this or that fork mod or shock solution. paging @gregjet , @rick , @robsoup , and anyone else who wants to wade in. back referenceshttp://fz07.org/post/65817http://fz07.org/post/65828http://fz07.org/post/65834 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Moderator sorkyah Posted January 7, 2016 Global Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2016 im certainly interested in seeing the outcome here... i still need a rear shock and havent decided one as of yet ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member xcarbonsteelx Posted January 7, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted January 7, 2016 I've subscribed also. With anticipating a nice tax refund, this might be something done later in this year. As I'm a bit on the heavier side of 240 lbs without all my riding gear. - xCarbonSteelx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsoup Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I think I'm decided on the ohlins rear shock. For the front I'd prefer a reversible kit (I generally like to be able to go back to stock in case of resale) but that's not the deciding factor. From what I have gleamed so far on cartridge kits, the Andreani is great value but has very limited adjustability, like almost none, and is not reversible. The Matris is reversible and great quality, but the compression side is badly setup (not sure if that can be fixed??). Traxxion and ohlins are two other options. Traxxion I don't know much about, but it's supposed to be good. Ohlins is a new reversible kit but only just released in the EU so little is known about it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 Yes the Matris can be fixed. I've done one so far and another is headed my way. The andreani rebound is sufficiently adjustable. Traxxion Dynamics is in USA so won't help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsoup Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 The bouncy bike is a bit annoying now that I'm getting a bit better at riding, and all the other mods I've done (levers, lights, tail tidy, exhaust, hugger, screen, etc) now mean that the suspension definitely needs looking at next. However I'm thinking to wait for the ohlins nix22 reviews to come in first... I'll probably do the rear shock when I have my first year service done in June, as even the Yamaha Techs should be able to fit that without too much trouble, and leave the fronts for the time being. If the nix22 is the same as the others (ie. needs fixing), then I basically have three substandard fronts to choose from (Matris,ohlins,Andreani), and Matt will probably have fixes for all three that I can pay him to mail me, for a good suspension guy in the uk to fit...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanM Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I know of at least one suspension specialist in the UK that does a fair bit of Traxxion, so you could buy Traxxion locally to get help and support there. The idea of having pattonme making a "fix" for the others and get that retrofitted is also good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsoup Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Any idea of the UK price of the traxxion cartridge kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanM Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 No,but you need to add shipping, VAT and fitting - so it is probably around GBP 950,- or so. Which is a lot, you can probably get one of the other kits, an upgrade and a basemodel aftermarket shock for only a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norwest Posted January 9, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted January 9, 2016 Just my viewpoint on this. You should look into a suspension solution that will work for you and your needs while staying within your budget. Not every rider needs a fully adjustable (Rebound, Hi~Lo speed compression) shock or set of forks. Since the stock suspension has pretty much zero adjustability anything at this point will be an improvement. You have the option of Race Tech GVE's or Cogent Dymanics DDC's which work very well and require no tuning and just replacing the springs in the forks for your weight and riding style will be a nice improvement up front. As far as the shock is concerned while the stock shock is rebuildable you still do not have any adjustability for rebound which I would consider a minimum adjustment that would be required. Yes there are shocks out there with no adjustment and they can be made to work well but the adjustability is nice. Race Tech's GVE's are adjustable but only internally but it is not a big deal to reach down in there and grab them and adjust and set them back. Pattonme takes a donor cartridge and places them inside the OEM tubes which is a option as well. I noticed while doing many bike events while working for Race Tech that the riders would come up and say they adjusted their suspension and as far as we were concerned everything was way off as far as adjusters and sag and once done it was a whole new bike. I am not saying that all riders don't know how to adjust their suspension properly but if you do get suspension work done seek out a suspension pro and let them at least check everything out for you as usually it only cost between $20.00~$40.00 and can make a world of difference even after installing the new components. So when shopping for suspension be honest with yourself and your riding abilities as well as needs and you should have a very well performing bike with minimal cash outlay. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Not every rider needs a fully adjustable (Rebound, Hi~Lo speed compression) shock or set of forks. ... So when shopping for suspension be honest with yourself and your riding abilities If I never sell another kit, I'll be disappointed to say the least but am in no danger of going broke. But Terry is right, good suspension components configured poorly are every bit a hindrance. And spending $$$ to never actually do something useful with them isn't productive. To quote Paul Thede (of Racetech) "The best you've ridden is the best you know." I do enjoy watching people's eyes light up when they get on their bikes after I've been thru it and exclaim, "wow! How come it doesn't come from the factory this way?" So once you ride the best, then you'll know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 A thing to keep in mind is the suspension is bad enough that any reasonable upgrade really will be an upgrade. By that I mean I have seen bikes that have not too bad suspension and people have bought aftermarket stuff that required proper tuning and didn't get it, or the aftermarket stuff was NOT really a substantial improvement. The 690 Duke KTM is an example of a bike with very useable front and rear suspension and is only tuneable but intrusion BUT it is Vanilla WP. ie it ISN'T crap. Putting a YSS on the back would be just ridiculous. Even just drilling the compression holes a bit bigger in the forks will be an "improvement" with a sensible fluid change. The shocks I fear have no redemption by the looks ( was it Rick that disassembled and investigated?). For a normal road rider I believe stiffer sprung rear and any quality shock will suffice even with minimal adjust if set up for the bike. The forks need a damm good balancing with the RIGHT rate springs and some sort of damping correction . NOTE I did NOT say adjustment. Most riders need their bike set up for their riding and will leave it alone. Altough I comment about suspension a fair bit , it is NOT as an expert. Although I have always spent money on suspension first on ANY vehicle I have owned I ahve had to learn to help myself to some extent because where I lived was thousnds of Km from experts. Racing motorcycles drove a lot of stuff home and there have always been some good to great publications available , even before the internet opened a world of info for the genuinely curious and discriminating. As I always have said " If you are reasonably near a GOOD suspension place, take it to THEM". You won't learn as much usually, but you WILL get a proper outcome. I am an Ohlins fan. If I had had my way that is what I would have had on the rear. There is posts about talking about Ohlins cartridges for the MT07 BUT upon reading the accompanying blurb , it may be misplaced. It mentions the bike has USD forks which it doesn't. So in short. Any aftermarket shock designed for the MT07 and set up by a competent shop will be a GIANT improvement. Any fork GVE and spring and fluid mod done properly or aftermarket cartridge WILL be an improvement...a big one. f you are racing and do not get friendly with a suspension shop or a well credentialed suspension guru , you are an idiot. Sorry but it is that blunt. Geographical dislocation excepted. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 norwest Thanks for that: "Cogent Dymanics DDC's which work very well and require no tuning and just replacing the springs in the forks for your weight and riding style will be a nice improvement up front." I haven't done anything to my shocks yet but if/when I do I will have those in mind. Undecided on the rear, don't want to spend too much for how I ride. Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norwest Posted January 11, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted January 11, 2016 The shocks I fear have no redemption by the looks ( was it Rick that disassembled and investigated?). Nope that was me that tore one down and checked the valving and piston design. Shame they didn't put a rebound adjuster on that shock as that would have been a very basic but yet workable unit. FZ-07 Shock Breakdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Sorry norwest. I couldn't remember who it was and it was too early in the morning for me to go and check. Complete laziness on my part. It was a good post. "Shame they didn't put a rebound adjuster on that shock as that would have been a very basic but yet workable unit." But would it have worked at all once sprung up from the original marshmallow spring rate. I was hoping someone would figure out a new valving stack for it with the right spring. Mainly for any guys in Queensland who race formula 3 ( the LAMS capacity 655cc is within tolerence but you cannot change the OUTSIDE of the shock ( only the internals and the spring rate). Stupid rule. Supposed to be to keep the costs down but it costs more to get the internals done than to buy an aftermarket shock that usually does a better job. There was also the hope that a minor tweak could emerge that could be used to improve the OEM one enough so people could keep it. Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member norwest Posted January 11, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted January 11, 2016 Sorry norwest. I couldn't remember who it was and it was too early in the morning for me to go and check. Complete laziness on my part. It was a good post. "Shame they didn't put a rebound adjuster on that shock as that would have been a very basic but yet workable unit." But would it have worked at all once sprung up from the original marshmallow spring rate. I was hoping someone would figure out a new valving stack for it with the right spring. Mainly for any guys in Queensland who race formula 3 ( the LAMS capacity 655cc is within tolerence but you cannot change the OUTSIDE of the shock ( only the internals and the spring rate). Stupid rule. Supposed to be to keep the costs down but it costs more to get the internals done than to buy an aftermarket shock that usually does a better job. There was also the hope that a minor tweak could emerge that could be used to improve the OEM one enough so people could keep it. No worries, IMO you could change up the internals and vastly improve the stock shock and if needed change up the stack to compensate for a stiffer or lighter spring depending on the need. It has a IFP design which would provide decent performance at the track if properly valved and had a good grade fluid in it. As long as the suspension guy doesn't go crazy on bleed size and knows what bleed size to use for the spring rate and conditions it would work fine. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted April 9, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted April 9, 2016 Would it be a mistake to do the rear shock first without touching the front forks? I hope to do a track day late this year and should have the time and money to do a rear shock, but I will most likely not have the time to do the front forks until the winter arrives. Thanks! Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted April 9, 2016 Author Share Posted April 9, 2016 If you can find $70 for fork springs (assuming the 0.82 isn't right for you) you'll get a reasonably balanced front to go along with the shock upgrade. If you can share your riding weight we can theorize a little more clearly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted April 9, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted April 9, 2016 If you can find $70 for fork springs (assuming the 0.82 isn't right for you) you'll get a reasonably balanced front to go along with the shock upgrade. If you can share your riding weight we can theorize a little more clearly...I'm 195 pounds with gear. Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted April 10, 2016 Author Share Posted April 10, 2016 I would suggest 0.9 springs. what are your current sag values? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted April 10, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted April 10, 2016 I would suggest 0.9 springs. what are your current sag values? I'll have to check. I picked up my bike a month ago, then it got cold again in NY, so I haven't done much with it yet. Can the fork springs be replaced with the forks on the bike? Thanks for the advise! Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member blackout Posted April 11, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted April 11, 2016 Doing some more reading I found that the springs are easy to do by themselves. But, I think I'll fix the fork issue all at once and just send them out to you, pattonme. Maybe by this summer we'll know how the Ohlins look. Thanks! Craig Mapstone Upstate New York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anips Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Doing some more reading I found that the springs are easy to do by themselves. But, I think I'll fix the fork issue all at once and just send them out to you, pattonme. Maybe by this summer we'll know how the Ohlins look. Thanks! Was wondering how easy it is to change the rear shock. Is it really just supporting the bike up and unbolting 2 bolts and swapping? Is there anything else that needs to be removed on this bike to get to it? I couldn't find any tutorials on it anywhere online so just wanted to ask here in case I decided to attempt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Eastern Kayaker Posted May 9, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted May 9, 2016 @anips here is a link listed below to a shock install thread on this forum, your objective is to take the bike's weight off the shock. Using only a rear stand does not achieve this objective. My fat finger hit the like button. Shock-Install-Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anips Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 @anips here is a link listed below to a shock install thread on this forum, your objective is to take the bike's weight off the shock. Using only a rear stand does not achieve this objective. My fat finger hit the like button. Shock-Install-Link Thanks! So assuming I can get the bike's weight off it looks like it really is a very simple change on this bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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