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norwest

Stock FZ-07 Shock Breakdown

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norwest
I had read a thread here that a member had mentioned that a FZ-07 stock shock can be disassembled, Well here is the proof.
 
The shock is an IFP (Internal Floating Piston) design same as the FZ-09 and probably the FJ-09 and separates the fluid and the nitrogen using a floating piston. The stock spring rate measured out at 11.1 kg/mm and checking it is a linear rate and not a progressive rate. With the preload adjuster backed all the way off you would have 10mm preload and you can crank it up to 17mm preload max.
 
I was pleasantly surprised that the valve itself seemed to have a good port flow area on both compression and rebound. Stock shim stacks are listed below.
 
Compression:
(7) 34x.15
17x.68 (Clamp)
37x3.18 (Base Washer)
 
Rebound:
(9) 30x.15
17x.68 (Clamp)
26x1.98 (Base Washer)
 
Bleed:
.86mm
 
With the stock shim stacks there is definitely room for improvement.
 
Anyway on to the images so you can see what is inside your shock assuming of course you are still running the stock shock.
 
Stock Shock:
fz07%20stock%20shock.jpg
 
Disassembled Stock Shock:
fz07%20stock%20shock%20disassembled.jpg
 
Stock Rebound Valve & Valving:
fz07%20stock%20shock%20rebound%20valving.jpg
 
Stock Compression Valve & Valving:
fz07%20stock%20shock%20compression%20valving.jpg
 
Terry
 
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etorty
...unfortunately, I can't see any image...
 
In my most recent posts, I've used Imgur.com, and it works... at least for me.
 
Anyway...
When mounted, the shock have 7 mm of variation between the position "1" (the less preload possible) and the position "9" (max preload).
So, we have 8 steps, with 7 mm available: 0,875 mm every step, if I'm right...
 
I hope I can see the images, tomorrow...
 
Thank you, @norwest!  :)

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norwest
Hmmm that is odd as I am looking at them in the post. Let me know if they don't show later for you.
 
Terry

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rowdy
I can see them. But the second one I'd love to see at higher resolution (I'm old). :)
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norwest
I can see them. But the second one I'd love to see at higher resolution (I'm old). :)
Yeah I am not what one would call a spring chicken either. The larger image should be showing up in a bit. 
Terry
 

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mike9999
I'm gonna ask the obvious question...is it possible to improve the stock shock?

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norwest
I'm gonna ask the obvious question...is it possible to improve the stock shock?
IMO yes it is but there are limitations as obviously if you want full adjustment then you should look for an aftermarket shock. As stated the stock valve has some decent ports IMO and the issue is the shim stacks.  
Terry
 

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twotone
Well yeah
 
If you can see all the guts you can fix em
 
Those shims are linear and safe package
But by no means progressive
Maybe bigger comp ports?
 
Nice work norwest
This will help kick start some DIYs

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gregjet
Northwest , you are a little beautie!
So the biggest problem is the spring rate being being basically matress foam rate.
The problem is if you put a heavier spring rateon this damping, is it going to become a serious pogo stick. So a valving change with a proper rate spring could be a viable upgrade provided you have a means of re pressurizing the de Carbon piston chamber.
I shall follow any posts on this thread closely ,even though I am running a nitron. A set of aluminium hardware would be a nice upgrade if you could get the shock working. It would be of interest to anyone in Australia who wants to race the MT07 ( LAMS one, as the full version is too big a capacity) in Formula 3. All the things required to make it competitive are within the rules EXCEPT the shock externals MUST remain stock . Internals and spring and spring hardware may be changed. Yes it's a stupid rule and I tried on several occasions to get it changed but to no avail.
 

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norwest
Those shims are linear and safe package But by no means progressive
Maybe bigger comp ports?
 
Nice work norwest
This will help kick start some DIYs
What do you mean the shims are linear? 
Comp ports have good flow and a decent shim area so IMO that should not be an issue.
 
Thanks!!
 
Terry
 

Nov 4, 2015 14:33:09 GMT -8 gregjet said: Northwest , you are a little beautie!
So the biggest problem is the spring rate being being basically matress foam rate.
The problem is if you put a heavier spring rateon this damping, is it going to become a serious pogo stick. So a valving change with a proper rate spring could be a viable upgrade provided you have a means of re pressurizing the de Carbon piston chamber.
I shall follow any posts on this thread closely ,even though I am running a nitron. A set of aluminium hardware would be a nice upgrade if you could get the shock working. It would be of interest to anyone in Australia who wants to race the MT07 ( LAMS one, as the full version is too big a capacity) in Formula 3. All the things required to make it competitive are within the rules EXCEPT the shock externals MUST remain stock . Internals and spring and spring hardware may be changed. Yes it's a stupid rule and I tried on several occasions to get it changed but to no avail.
You must have bad vision, Never been referred to as a little beautie.  :)
 
I would be curious to hear from someone in the 180 lb range and have them check their sag and let us know what ramp the preload adjuster is on as well as free sag and race (rider) sag. The 11.1 kg/mm spring is a higher rate then alot of other shocks out there so I am just a bit curious where we are at with the numbers.
 
Yes the rebound would not be able to control a higher rate spring, What I am guessing just by looking at the port, stack, bleed is it is initially slow on rebound but once the stack opens up it is pogo stick time then it ramps up on a progressive ramp. IMO the stock valving is too light even for the stock spring rate.
 
We have that same rule here for some vintage classes.
 
Terry
 
 

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gremlin
Those shims are linear and safe package But by no means progressive
Maybe bigger comp ports?
 
Nice work norwest
This will help kick start some DIYs
What do you mean the shims are linear? 
Comp ports have good flow and a decent shim area so IMO that should not be an issue.
 
Thanks!!
 
Terry
 

Nov 4, 2015 14:33:09 GMT -8 gregjet said: Northwest , you are a little beautie!
So the biggest problem is the spring rate being being basically matress foam rate.
The problem is if you put a heavier spring rateon this damping, is it going to become a serious pogo stick. So a valving change with a proper rate spring could be a viable upgrade provided you have a means of re pressurizing the de Carbon piston chamber.
I shall follow any posts on this thread closely ,even though I am running a nitron. A set of aluminium hardware would be a nice upgrade if you could get the shock working. It would be of interest to anyone in Australia who wants to race the MT07 ( LAMS one, as the full version is too big a capacity) in Formula 3. All the things required to make it competitive are within the rules EXCEPT the shock externals MUST remain stock . Internals and spring and spring hardware may be changed. Yes it's a stupid rule and I tried on several occasions to get it changed but to no avail.
You must have bad vision, Never been referred to as a little beautie.  :) 
I would be curious to hear from someone in the 180 lb range and have them check their sag and let us know what ramp the preload adjuster is on as well as free sag and race (rider) sag. The 11.1 kg/mm spring is a higher rate then alot of other shocks out there so I am just a bit curious where we are at with the numbers.
 
Yes the rebound would not be able to control a higher rate spring, What I am guessing just by looking at the port, stack, bleed is it is initially slow on rebound but once the stack opens up it is pogo stick time then it ramps up on a progressive ramp. IMO the stock valving is too light even for the stock spring rate.
 
We have that same rule here for some vintage classes.
 
Terry
 

 
 
 
I'll check my sag. I'm 145lbs maybe 155lb with gear. I'll repost my numbers once I can have my buddy help. Thanks for sharing this

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gregjet
I am 188lbs. The stock shock was on 3rd easiest cam setting before I went to aftermarket shock.. That was for sag of about 15mm ( wheel) unloaded. With rider it would just drop way too far considering only 130mm travel total. Set it up for rider sag and it was harsh as hell then of course would blow through it's travel when you hit a big bump ( of which we are amply endowed). Typical preload blues handling.
Shock travel to wheel travel is a 2.36:1 lever ratio. With only 130mm total travel and 2.36 ratio I am thinking it should be a fair bit stiffer than 11, But I set my shocks up with a rate that will allow me min preload to get bike loaded only sag. It prefer more compliant initial travel.

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twotone
Norwest,
 
Linear as in stack of one size shims
 
Progressive and better control might look like this
 
4x .15x 40 mm
2x .2 X 38
.2x 36
.2x 32
.2x 28
.2x .24
4x .2x 22
.2x 30
From GSXR 750 comp

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etorty
Hmmm that is odd as I am looking at them in the post. Let me know if they don't show later for you. 
Terry
This is really odd...
I can't see any image even now. I use a Mac with OS X (10.11.1) and Safari.
In the place of the images, I see a little square with an "?" in the middle.
I've checked also with my cell phone (a Samsung with Android) and Firefox, nothing.
 
I can see images in other posts... I don't understand why I can't see your images...  :-[

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norwest
Norwest, 
Linear as in stack of one size shims
 
Progressive and better control might look like this
 
4x .15x 40 mm
2x .2 X 38
.2x 36
.2x 32
.2x 28
.2x .24
4x .2x 22
.2x 30
From GSXR 750 comp
Back when I was taking the suspension seminar at Race Tech that same exact question was asked pertaining to straight vs tapered stacks the tapered being progressive vs the straight being linear. Paul Thede's explanation was this  

"Contrary to popular belief the tapered stack is not progressive. It's advantage is that it has multiple bending axes that assist in smoothing the abrupt bend of a straight stack thereby resisting permanent distortion (creasing). It also created more clearance from the baseplate."
Would have been nice to see a dyno graph with both stack arrangements.
 
Just for kicks and grins I ran a FEA on two stacks (1) Straight & (1) Tapered, Shims shown below and this is the resulting image from it. Both stacks used the same valve.
 
Tapered Stack:
34x 0.2
33x 0.2
32x 0.2
31x 0.2
30x 0.2
29x 0.2
28x 0.2
27x 0.2
26x 0.2
25x 0.2
24x 0.2
23x 0.2
22x 0.2
21x 0.2
20x 0.2
 
Straight Stack:
34x 0.2
34x 0.2
34x 0.2
34x 0.2
34x 0.2
34x 0.2
34x 0.2
34x 0.2
34x 0.2
34x 0.2
34x 0.2
34x 0.2
34x 0.2
34x 0.2
20x 0.2
 
tapered%20vs%20straight.png
 
As you can see the straight stack is slightly stiffer but is not progressive in nature.
 
Terry
 

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