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fiercegerbil

Piston upgrade?

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fiercegerbil
This may have been asked about already but I don't recall seeing anything about this so far strolling through threads. If it has, I do apologize.
 
I was researching upgrades and came across Wiseco pistons which boost compression to 12.5:1. I've tried searching for more info like people actually installing these. I haven't come across anything aside from the Wiseco site. Does anyone here have any information? This could be a viable upgrade. Would like to know some numbers on this. Of course, it could not be worth the upgrade if total cost vs power or decreased reliability are poor. Just curious about options. I'm a "what if" kinda guy.

Go ahead. Pick on the short guy. Wait... I'm short.

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bmwpowere36m3
Given the bike has only been for sale in the US for a couple of years.... I doubt anyone has "opened" the engine to install hi-comp pistons. That said, don't bother and I'll leave it at that. Better off installing a full-exhaust and re-mapping the ECU either via flash, PC or EJK.

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Guest Ralph
The compression ratio on this bike is high enough,
what I think would help are fast road cam's and
a cylinder head port clean up, it sounds and feels
like it as very mild cams. Not that I am likely to
do it, if I ever get so I am regularly hitting the
full throttle stop I will just buy a faster bike.
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gregjet
What it needs is a piston /barrel kit to increase the piston by 2-2.5 mm and keep the 11.5:1 or thereabouts. Then I could make my LAMS 655cc bike a 733cc bike with 2.5mm items. The pistons could be a nice cleantop almost flat surface. I'd be happy to keep the cams as is and the ports look like they would be happy flowing that with minimal cleaning.
 
 

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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thomascrown
Given the bike has only been for sale in the US for a couple of years.... I doubt anyone has "opened" the engine to install hi-comp pistons. That said, don't bother and I'll leave it at that. Better off installing a full-exhaust and re-mapping the ECU either via flash, PC or EJK.
I think the pro flat track folks have opened it up, and these pistons being available is probably due to them going to wiseco first.

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thomascrown
What it needs is a piston /barrel kit to increase the piston by 2-2.5 mm and keep the 11.5:1 or thereabouts. Then I could make my LAMS 655cc bike a 733cc bike with 2.5mm items. The pistons could be a nice cleantop almost flat surface. I'd be happy to keep the cams as is and the ports look like they would be happy flowing that with minimal cleaning. 

There is no barrel. The crankcase is the barrel, so boring it out requires complete disassembly and machine work. There may not be enough material to work with either to go more than 689.
 
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gregjet
Well spotted TC. I just looked up the engine parts and the top case and barrels are one piece. There goes that dream. From the pic of the taken apart engine there isn't a lot of meat to play with between the piston and the water gallery. Looks like a stroker kit might be the only way to get any real displacement increase. Admittedly it would suit the stock cams a bit better.
3mm offset ( 6mm total) increase in stroke would give 750cc.
 

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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N/A
GJ, stroking her "could" introduce a plethora of nightmares. Balance issues, fuelling problems and a rocking couple caused by having to use shorter rods come to mind, not to mention a huge hole in your wallet. Is there a stroker kit available?
 
007

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fiercegerbil
I reckon as the newness wears off the 07 there will be more options available on the performance side. I'm not saying I'd go as far as opening the engine. Exhaust and ECU upgrades are easy and don't sacrifice reliability unless someone goons up. I just think it's a interesting option. Certainly looks more viable than turbocharging. If the weight of the pistons are the same as stock, balance shouldn't be a problem.
 
I'm waiting to see if diesel engines will ever become mainstream on motorcycles. Yamaha has patents for one but hasn't done anything with it. Imagine 100 hp and torque while getting 100 miles to the gallon. The tech has been out but hasn't caught on. Only a indy prototype sport bike was made which was impressive. You can buy a cruiser with a diesel if that is one's taste. It is big, heavy and has FOUR fork tubes up front. Forget who makes it.

Go ahead. Pick on the short guy. Wait... I'm short.

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bmwpowere36m3
Given the bike has only been for sale in the US for a couple of years.... I doubt anyone has "opened" the engine to install hi-comp pistons. That said, don't bother and I'll leave it at that. Better off installing a full-exhaust and re-mapping the ECU either via flash, PC or EJK.
I think the pro flat track folks have opened it up, and these pistons being available is probably due to them going to wiseco first.
 
 
People/teams who race the bike... sure. Does the OP fall into that category? I doubt it.
 
My only point, simply raising the compression is a waste of time. For the return on investment... If you were already rebuilding the engine and needed pistons, sure.
 
Boring and stroking is different as your increasing displacement, not necessarily compression. It comes down to how much you want to spend and tinker. If I ever find the FZ-07 lacking in power, minus small upgrades, I'll just jump to a liter bike... less money and headaches.

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fooschnickens
I'm interested to see what they did to the DT-07 concept to get it churning out 90hp. A solid 20hp over stock is nothing to sneeze at!

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thomascrown
Ama flat track has a 750cc ceiling. That dt07 for sure has more displacement.

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Guest Ralph
The super twins that race in the IOM 650cc ER's ans SV's are giving up tp 105 hp
though I doubt there's much still standard in the motors and they are getting
a bit fragile at those levels.

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gregjet
Fiercegerbil, Talking of diesel motorcycles, if you want a great read or two ( also available as a talking book with the author doing the talking ) there are 2 very entertaining books by Paul Carter about diesel motorcycle record attempts. On about riding around Australia and the other about trying to set a land speed record. Very funny. Lots of swearing though. " Is That Thing Diesel?" and " Ride Like Hell and You'll Get There"
This is the most viable diesel I have seen Neander Track T-800CDI.
007, there have been lots of stroker kits made over the years and OFTEN they have been better balanced than the original motors. Maybe not as likely in modern motors . Remember we are only talking about 3mm long stroke here. Very easy to rebalance in the construction. Even in the 70's Poweroll made a stroker kit for the little Honda's that took them from 125 to 185cc. Still available and a favoutite of bucket racers. Actually smoother than the original. The prolem with strokers is the huge amount of work required to do the upgrade as everything has to come apart. At some stage maybe I will condsider getting a proper 688cc motor and sticking it in. Have the advantage of getting rid of the stripped from supplied engine bolt that I had to helicoil.

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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N/A
gregjet, OK, however, is there a stroker kit on the market for the -07? I think your idea of getting a Euro-spec motor would work out cheaper and more reliable, but hey, if you are going to stroke your LAMS motor I'll enjoy the journey, could be really interesting... cheers,
 
007

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gregjet
Nah, no stroker kits as far as I know. But this is one of THE most popular motorcycles in Europe...full stop. Sooner or later it is very likely that bigger pistons or stroker kits will turn up. Right now , with the bike de lAMS I am really enjoying the MT and playing with Pattonme's fork cartridge kit so i am pleasantly occupied. The FZ07 seems to be pretty big in the US as well, ( unusually enough) , so maybe one of the really good engine mod kits manufacturers will get interested.

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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gregjet
007
Thanks for that article. There is some really new developments in there I wasn't aware of yet plus some new sectioning practices. I still am not completely sure how you get the 270/90deg crank to work with a 2 into one system.
It made me go and dig around to have a good look for what they have done on the YZFR M1 as it is really 2 MT type motors side by side and runs 4-1. The first thing that surprised me is that the pipes on it are cyl 1 and 2 together and 3 and 4 together then collect BEFORE a final collector. That is exactly how I wouldn't do it . I would have gone 1&4, 2&3 which are 180deg apart then kept then separate or dumped them into a virtual atmosphere box. That would be heavier but guarantee pulse integrity.
But they know a lot more than I do about exhausts so WHY and HOW have they made this work. There is some serious gas dynamics at work here. I noticed that the M1 pipes have a diverge very close to the head then all sorts of positive and negative wave reflectors all along the pipe until they join. I checked out my snail Akro and it is plain pipe so there has been no attempt to replicate the sonic tricks on the MT pipe. The Arrow "appears" to have a join and a diverge about twice the length away from the head as the M1 headers. Can't check it properly despite bouncing all over the net. That would be the right length if it is actually a diverge. Could be why the Arrow exhausts report higher HP outputs?

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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avanti
As we say regarding us racing ancient, 299ci, 1100hp, Studebaker V/8s at Bonneville (setting and currently holding records, I might add), "Anyone can buy new and better and probably go fast, but it takes real idiots to race orphan antiques!!!" Some of us do silly things just to see if we can!!!

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N/A
gregjet, I've met the technical engineer at Arrow and have visited their factory in San Giustino, Italy. I have also visited Yoshimura in Chino. Chalk and cheese. Yoshi has a small R&D department and a huge production facility, Arrow is the opposite and makes more money from R&D for major automotive sports car manufacturers than it does from exhausts. They design intake systems as well as exhausts, but it's exhausts that are Arrow's owner, Giorgio Giannelli's passion and he ensures everything leaving his factory is pretty well spot-on in a technical sense. They dyno everything and build some pretty trick stuff for the teams they support such as LCR in MotoGP. I tried to visit the Akrapovic factory in Slovenia but got no reply to my request, but I'm guessing they also put a lot into R&D. I know some people think the long style Arrow wrecks the looks of the -07, but I love the sound, the build quality and the 5.5kg weight saving AND it's road legal under ADR83/00 sec 6.2. I don't like the cost, but that's partly to do with our dollar being in the gutter. The fact it develops a little more power is just icing on the cake for me. I'm hoping to get out for a ride, but the weather here in the Darling Downs is cr@pola today! Cheers,
 
007

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