Jump to content
The MT-07 Forum

Unboxing Matris with my QA Inspector


fzonly1

Recommended Posts

  • Premium Member

@etorty At 15 clicks from closed position on both to start. Opened comp setting all the way and it rode much better. Still rough though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 196
  • Created
  • Last Reply

err, I've had Andreani on the brain and this is a Matris thread... sorry
 
 
The Andreani ships with Ohlins' 19cSt@40 oil (their R&T fluid). I think 8 or 9 is a reasonable enough place to start for the C leg. You can chase the problem with oil (eg. 'like-water') in the 'C' leg if you want and it is easier to mix in a thicker oil and successively try higher viscosity. but at some point I'd hope the light would go off "why am I doing this?" and you'd send it out to get fixed for good.
 
The 'R' leg isn't a problem. Remember that leg is doing ALL of the damping - fighting 2 springs instead of one. If you go with the 16, it might well be you have to close the needle all the way to get the damping rates you want. with 19 maybe the same point is 1 turn out.
 
The point being you can use a variety of oils with some latitude just as long as you can find a needle position to accommodate it.

bannerfans_1095431.jpg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@fzonly1: thank you for the detail about the position of your C and R registers!
 
@pattonme: thank youuuuuu! for the updated table!!! :):):)

www.MT-Series.it
Yamaha Official MT-Series Club

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

 

@fzonly1: thank you for the detail about the position of your C and R registers! 
@pattonme: thank youuuuuu! for the updated table!!! :):):)
Looks like I'll be utilizing the expertise of @pattonme to rework my cartridge after all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

err, I've had Andreani on the brain and this is a Matris thread... sorry 
 
The Andreani ships with Ohlins' 19cSt@40 oil (their R&T fluid). I think 8 or 9 is a reasonable enough place to start for the C leg. You can chase the problem with oil (eg. 'like-water') in the 'C' leg if you want and it is easier to mix in a thicker oil and successively try higher viscosity. but at some point I'd hope the light would go off "why am I doing this?" and you'd send it out to get fixed for good.
 
The 'R' leg isn't a problem. Remember that leg is doing ALL of the damping - fighting 2 springs instead of one. If you go with the 16, it might well be you have to close the needle all the way to get the damping rates you want. with 19 maybe the same point is 1 turn out.
 
The point being you can use a variety of oils with some latitude just as long as you can find a needle position to accommodate it.
 

Hmm, keeping in mind I never got fluid with my kit, I was under the impression the Andreani kit came with Ohlins 5 - more like 16cSt. That's what i diluted the Redline Yellow down to for the rebound side. 2.75 (maybe 3) turns out seems like a good place for the R side.  
I'm running the Redline blue (10cSt) in the compression side and have that adjuster maxed out soft - 4 turns. 
 
though I'm sure you can make this better, this is actually pretty darn good imo - way, way better than the OE cheap bits. I suspect it would be even better had I put in those better seals to cut down the stiction. But there's still some travel i could gain with a better valve in there. But in that respect, sounds like the Andreani might just be the better of these 2 "almost there" set-ups.  
 
I'm not gonna bother going to lighter fluid on that C side. As you said, it's just a bandaide when it really needs stitches. 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

@rick I don't think I want to do the band-aide thing. I plan to keep this bike for as long as I can. Correcting the issue just makes more sense for me. I Only wish I had gone this route from the beginning. Pattonme tried to warn me. I'm grateful for all the guidance I've found through this forum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I'd read from people who had experience with the Andreani (and there's a bunch more), for me it was worth the try to go with the lighter fluid on the C side.
 
But these cartridges are pretty different in that the Matris is a full 4 valves and the Andreani only one valve each leg, trying to emulate a BPF, but w/o the Big part - doh!
 
IIrc, Pattonme's calculations on the Andreani said the C valve's design would restrict flow and that's why I went to the lighter fluid. But his 1st impression of the Matris was that there was something really wrong - he thought maybe even a one-off assembly issue with the shims. Clearly, your results say it was not a one-off issue and they are all valved too stiff.
 
So the answer will be a new compression valve/shims and yours will likely be excellent.
 
I'm gonna let my buddy with both a KTM Duke and a new SuperDukeR ride mine as is (heh, heh, I get to ride the 1290 - can't reach the dang ground on the 690) and see what he thinks. I'll also get a feel for what a nice modern suspension should feel like in the process. but I suspect, I'll be going the new valve route as well at some point .
 
On the plus side, the job becomes simpler now that the experience is under the belt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

 

From what I'd read from people who had experience with the Andreani (and there's a bunch more), for me it was worth the try to go with the lighter fluid on the C side.  
But these cartridges are pretty different in that the Matris is a full 4 valves and the Andreani only one valve each leg, trying to emulate a BPF, but w/o the Big part - doh!
 
IIrc, Pattonme's calculations on the Andreani said the C valve's design would restrict flow and that's why I went to the lighter fluid. But his 1st impression of the Matris was that there was something really wrong - he thought maybe even a one-off assembly issue with the shims. Clearly, your results say it was not a one-off issue and they are all valved too stiff.
 
So the answer will be a new compression valve/shims and yours will likely be excellent.
 
I'm gonna let my buddy with both a KTM Duke and a new SuperDukeR ride mine as is (heh, heh, I get to ride the 1290 - can't reach the dang ground on the 690) and see what he thinks. I'll also get a feel for what a nice modern suspension should feel like in the process. but I suspect, I'll be going the new valve route as well at some point .
 
On the plus side, the job becomes simpler now that the experience is under the belt.
Yeah it's all a learning experience for me, I can't wait to feel the difference when it's all said n done. I would love to ride any KTM. So many quality components.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

His Duke is an older one, before the remodel that cut a lot of the nice alloy bits and cheaped up the suspension. The Duke is an interesting match to the FZ, It makes a bit less power but it's also lighter. It's also got a 34" seat height that my short legs find the ground a mile away, so I've never ridden the thing.
 
The SDukeR leaves me tiptoed, but so does my Aprilia - so no problemo. I can't wait to scare the living crap out of myself on that thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

 

His Duke is an older one, before the remodel that cut a lot of the nice alloy bits and cheaped up the suspension. The Duke is an interesting match to the FZ, It makes a bit less power but it's also lighter. It's also got a 34" seat height that my short legs find the ground a mile away, so I've never ridden the thing.  
The SDukeR leaves me tiptoed, but so does my Aprilia - so no problemo. I can't wait to scare the living crap out of myself on that thing.
Sounds like a ride report is in order!
Lol. Take some pics too. I live vicariously through all of you here.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

a pict of my soiled undies might be a bit over the top. lol
 
Rest assured, all of the electronic nannies will be turned well up before the clutch is let out and I'll still be very gentile with the throttle considering that 460 lb bike that makes nearly as much HP (and maybe even torque) as my 3600 lb. Subaru Outback!
 
I am real curious to feel how it rides. The suspension just sitting on it feels very plush. The Ohlins I have on the back of my FZ feels this way. Hopefully, some day the front will as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

Lol @rick ok no pics!
The only bikes I've been offered to take for a spin are my friends Harleys with massive ape hangers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is funny how people gravitate to similiar things.
I have a MT07 ( FZ07), my girlfriend has a Duke 690 ( on my advice) and I have a Subaru as well. Guess it says something away the way we make choices. BTW the stock KTM 690 ( 2013-2015) has a much more serious fuelling problem than the 07. Took 2 separate aftermarket devices to completely fix it. Suspension ( even the downgraded on on this model) and seat are exemplary on this bike. Feels more stable ( with the throttle fixed and Michelin pilot road 4's)) than ANY bike I have ever ridden including my NSR250's.

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As silly light the FZ is, the Duke feels almost like a bicycle pushing it about - except for bars up at my shoulders, lol. His Duke is a 2009 and he did all the usual stuff to combat the snatchy throttle issue, starting with that G2 throttle tamer w/the ball bearing throttle tube and reflash. It's far better now than stock, but it's still a bit snatchy. KTM has made some more changes with the 2016. Hopefully they've finally fixed that.
 
He said the SDukeR was way better, but he found some dongle thing that plugged into the ecu port that basically fools the ecu to run open loop all the time. It was cheap and now the fueling is apparently as good as any bike he's ever owned or ridden (and that's a pretty good list)
 
BTW, back in his club racing days, he played on a TZ125 - man was that thing light! we used to carry it into his basement to do rings/clutches/gear changes etc. Great fun.
 
I'm on my 3rd Subie. I know a couple other guys from the Futura forum who are also Subaru owners - it's a cult.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Global Moderator

Im a dsm man through and through... but i'll gladly take a subaru on the track any day.
The torque from those boxer engine is just phenominal
 
Im guessing @gregjet has a uut? The subaru outback?
 

ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rick,
Contemporary bikes aren't light. Over the years the manufacturers have steadily made bikes heavier ( same thing has happened with cars) until we think the 07 and Duke are light. The RD350LC weighed 134kg and in restricted form had 47 ( rear wheel) HP and unrestricted 60hp.
The rvf(vfr)400 weighed 164kg and was a 4cyl with 55rear wheel HP restriscted and 75hp unrestricted. The superbike and supersports have gotten lighter but the non racers should be this light except they all have these huge heavy 4cyl motors.
I had a motolight that I raced which was a Honda RS125 chassis with a CR85 motor in it. 70kg WET.
To me the 690 and the 07 aren't light. They are what a road motorcycle should weigh. It's one of the reasons I don't like 4's.
I have only recentlyt returned to the Suby owners mob. Just wish it wasn't so gutless. Reflash soon hopefully.

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok guys... but here we was talking about the forks of @fzonly1 ... or it isn't??  :o

www.MT-Series.it
Yamaha Official MT-Series Club

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Global Moderator

I thinl this thread has become a tangent universe

ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

"If a Tangent Universe occurs, it will be highly unstable, sustaining itself for no longer than several weeks."
"Those living nearest to the Vortex will find themselves at the epicenter of a dangerous new world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Global Moderator

Waa that a quote from doctor who?

ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

There’s a “book” that explains this theory. "The Philosophy of Time Travel" written by the screenplay writer of Donnie Darko.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to travel back to spring - quick as possible please.
 
And speaking of relativity, compared to a '96 K11RS land yacht I owned for 6 trouble filled years, everything is light - even my Outback
 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.