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Body Position And Tight Turns. Have I Been Wrong?


databyter

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pineappleunderthesea

I came from a Honda Shadow 750 cruiser, and looking at the video is appears that he's cornering the bike like you would a cruiser:  legs on the tank, lean with the bike.  In fact, that's what they teach you in motorcycle safety class, keep your legs on the tank and lean in.
 
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with his posture for low speed cornering, that's how I rode my Shadow into corners, but I was always smooth and steady on the throttle and never on the edge of losing traction.  I never moved around on the seat or anything like that, simply because, well, it's a cruiser!  It's gonna scrape well before you reach traction issues.  So reasons why he fell have been discussed above, I feel that he was on the edge of traction and probably got off/on the throttle and unsettled the bike.  
 

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I don't see anything "wrong" with his style... he's leaning with the bike, not pushing it down or dragging a knee.
 
In the turn where he crashes, he's kind of pushing the bike down or leaning his upper body away from the inside of the turn.
 
You can hear light scraping partway into the turn, followed by getting off the throttle, more scraping and then slide.
 
Granted, dragging a knee would have helped since he wouldn't be on the edge of traction being leaned over that much.

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I see throttle control was more of a culprit than weight transfer. As has been stated, less lean would have been needed if he shifted his weight more, but it looks like letting off the throttle is what caused the slide.
 
He was likely rolling off throttle because his entrance speed was too high. When I learned weight transfer, I was taught to 'kiss the mirrors'. You can transfer a lot of weight with your upper body alone. It's a good way to get familiar with the concept while keeping your seat planted.

O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason. Bear with me.
My heart is in the coffin there with Caesar,
And I must pause...till it come back to me.

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I see throttle control was more of a culprit than weight transfer. As has been stated, less lean would have been needed if he shifted his weight more, but it looks like letting off the throttle is what caused the slide.  
He was likely rolling off throttle because his entrance speed was too high. When I learned weight transfer, I was taught to 'kiss the mirrors'. You can transfer a lot of weight with your upper body alone. It's a good way to get familiar with the concept while keeping your seat planted.
this-if you are not comfortable hanging off on the street,get your head and shoulder out where the mirrors are.load the front tire with a little brake and don't chop the throttle mid-corner. 
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I crashed pretty much the same way years ago on the Tail of the Dragon. I was young and stupid and thought that to be a good rider meant to scrape my pegs. Well, I know now that the scraping sound just means you are at the limit of the motorcycle's lean angle. It doesn't mean the rider is making the best turn. Had I leaned off a bit and kept the bike just a little more upright, I wouldn't have lowsided. I think gregjet above explained it best. Letting off the throttle just adds to the problem when you panic and know you can't lean more. At a relaxed pace, there's never a need to hang off the bike, but if you are riding aggressive, it's a skill that should be learned. I won't put my knee down until I have had some track lessons and the pants that are made for it, but in the mean time, when I am upping the pace, I do tend to lean off a little at least.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Thanks for all the good replies so far. I appreciate the input. When I saw that vid it scared the shit outta me because I couldn't figure out what he did wrong. That's how I ride! So that coulda been me.
He is probably going faster than it looks like in the vid. I've had a few guys tell me that I probably would have no such issues within the speed limits and warnings, and that's good enough for the first few times. I still haven't been in the mountains, between working a lot and excessive heat here. Databyter

Databyter

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That turn is historically difficult. That's why rnickeymouse camps out there. It makes for many YouTube clicks when he captures wrecks.
 
Add to that a rider who is going faster than his experience level.
 
What a new rider should glean from this is to be aware of your limits and only push on them gently. This guy has either been ignoring the warning signs from the previous times he took this turn at similar speeds, or this is his first time on that turn at that speed.
 
Above all, when you get scared by a turn... keep calm and carry on (with the turn and the throttle)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Setting your entry speed is critically important.
Cause of most single rider motorcycle crashes: Failure to negotiate a turn.
 
You can set your speed before the turn (slow, look, press, roll) as well as trail brake (progressive decreasing use of the brakes) into the turn.
 
For body position you want to lean with the bike but 'hanging off' is really a track position, not a road position. 
You do want to have margin and leaning over can leave a rider with decreased margin on public roads. 
If taking a passenger remind them to look over your turn side shoulder, to move with you. 
 
You can try a "forward and in" position (putting your chin over the turn side mirror) which will enable you to maintain control, turn the bike and maintain additional clearance through a turn. Attend an MSF ARC course to actually work on this, along with trail braking, etc. 
 
If you hit a turn too fast (remember entry speed...) pressing harder to lean may be your only option.
Chopping the throttle is a survival reaction but can have a really negative result.
 
For some good books take a look at Nick Ienatsch's "Sport Riding Techniques" & Lee Park's "Total Control".
Both are very, very readable and will have techniques you can use asap on the road. 
Of course a gold standard is Keith Code's "Twist of the Wrist" (and the DVD) which is a bit more technical.
 
Best of luck, ride safe.
 
 
 

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