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easily reversible suspension upgrade?


crescentwrench

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crescentwrench

Weird q, I know.
 
Disclaimer: I know almost zero about make suspension mods or upgrades.
 
Here's the scoop: I am too light for my bike and I want to mod the suspension so that the bike is safer and funner for me. That said, I don't want to make major modifications (in terms of $ and time and irreversibility) in a way that is not going to be helpful or useful if I decided to sell my bike in the future. In other words, no one's going to want suspension so soft...
 
What would you do in my shoes? (Besides drink more milkshakes and eat more hamburgers).
 
 
 

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Drink more tequila and eat more ribeyes?
 
I'd recommend getting springs rated for your weight for the front forks, and possibly just leave the rear as low as it will go?

ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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just how light are you @crescentwrench? What a mod is 'worth' depends on time-frame. If you're going to sell next spring you probably don't want to do too much beyond springs and oil. If we're talking 2-3 years then the other options come into play. I think buyers would be very interested in a bike with cartridges installed and won't mind that they need to get them serviced anyway or resprung/revalved to suit. It goes with the territory.
 
The Matris is the only system that lets you return to bone-stock.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Listen to Pattonme, Cresentwrench. On suspension , he is the way and the light.
Interestingly if you are the right light the bike may be sprung OK anyway . It is soft by proper standards. Have you done the suspension setup ( or had it done) for sag?
Having said that the damping is horrendous front and back. A aftermarket  rear shock will come with spring for your weight ( hopefully). In fact if the vendor of the shock DOESEN'T ask for your weight don't buy it. That will make a gianormous difference to the feel of the bike.
Are you short as well? there is some linkage lower-er available though they may make the front feel even more vague. Don't go sloppy spring to lower the seat height.
Money and effort spent on suspension "rightness" will repay you is fun quotient more than anything else  on this bike .
 
You can always swap back the shock and fork springs and sell them separate on MT forums. There is always light riders looking for stuff.
My pick for rear shocks is Ohlins, but I suspect Pattonme may have a different view ( and listen to him over me). Mainly because the vendors for Ohlins are more likely to set them up for you properly, but that is always vendor dependent.
A forgotten fact if that if you are very light you may have to play with your body/bike positioning to get better weight bias ( bars/pegs etc.) These bikes seem to need a bit of rider load on the front to get them to turn without vagueness.

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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I am curious too, I weigh 120lb with gear, I have no idea what I need to do with the suspension on this bike.

Engaging with people that have personality disorders on a message board is like arguing with a rock.

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Hold on tight and ride like the wind!  I was 123 when got married (38 years ago).
 
 

I am curious too, I weigh 120lb with gear, I have no idea what I need to do with the suspension on this bike.
 
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Seriously, how light are you?! I'm 130 and find this bike to be comically softly sprung. I can't imagine an adult being legitimately too light for this bike.
 
But if you're convinced that's the case, you're in socal, right? Why not ride over to racetech headquarters (they're in Corona) and have them tell you what you need. Or you can use their spring rate calculator on their site and see what you need yourself: http://racetech.com
 
As far as reversible goes though, the only thing easily reversible is going to be just adjusting your preload on the stock suspension. Anything else requires either swapping out the front internals and putting in a different or rebuilt rear shock. Which isn't necessarily that big a deal, but it will require a chunk of time.

Published 'Chronicles of a Motorcycle Gypsy' a book about my travels on the FZ, and a writer for Motorcyclist Magazine

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At 120lb the OE spring will be fine at non-aggressive pace. Do try to get the correct sag - you may need to take some of the preload out of the forks. When talking sub-Pedrosa weight, I'm not sure they make springs that soft without resorting to dirt-bike springs.
 
I think the basic Ohlins shock is perfectly fine for non-racing use, and can be even better if prepared properly. It depends on your tuner doing something intelligent with it.
 
>he is the way and the light
@gregjet, I appreciate the sentiment but let's all keep in mind I'm just a regular joe who just so happens to have an unhealthy focus on suspension and forks in particular. Don't get me started on hunting knives and silver spoons. *grin* While my mission might be to rid the world of bad suspension, it still falls rather short of the scope and gravitas of that other bearded fellow.
 
The OE shock is just crap. There isn't any 2 ways about it and unfortunately it's not rebuildable. Now maybe you can find some combination of preload and damping setup that works good enough. Great. But otherwise you simply have to buy something that's intended for tuning and better made.
 
I've reached out to both YSS in USA and Thailand to ask them to bring a fully-featured shock to market. They make one for the R3 and the FZ09 so it's not really a stretch to have a full-zoot model for the -07 too.

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How do you feel about SOG knives?  And does your spoon collection have any slotted silver spoons (used for Absinthe)?

Engaging with people that have personality disorders on a message board is like arguing with a rock.

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Psshaw, ignore Pattonme's protestations of humility. No such thing as an UNHEALTHY focus on suspension ( Ok maybe there could be). He has put a fair bit of intelligent thought and practice into the suspension on this bike.
Again the rear shock SUCKS ( accurate description of shock quality ). If you are going to spend anything on this bike, this is the first thing.
A well built YSS will be a big improvement, but won't be an Ohlins, Nitron, Yacugar and a few others. ( MY opinion) good ones are good, not good ones are better than stock, but that's about it. I found they are better at suspending the smaller lighter bikes than most though ( CBR125R for example). If the importer is also a good suspension tuner then you will have a winner though.
 
Whichever, a shock swap is 2 bolts/nuts ( though suspending the rear of the bike while you do it can be problematic). Keep the OEM shock and put it back on when/if you sell the bike.
 
I am a Shun man myself ( for cooking anyway). In a choice between the MT and my Shun , the knife would win everytime.
 

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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Oh lordy, what have I wrought... Next we'll be discussing the finer points of Vanadium steel.
 
Agreed the YSS is a second-tier shock. But if they can hit sub-$600 for a 3 or 4-way adjustable it just might be worth the effort.

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The linguine forks feel like they'll collapse under trail braking and hard cornering, yet transmit every square bump on the road to your hands in the most jarring way possible. That's just a function of crap suspension.

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Psshaw, ignore Pattonme's protestations of humility. No such thing as an UNHEALTHY focus on suspension ( Ok maybe there could be). He has put a fair bit of intelligent thought and practice into the suspension on this bike. Again the rear shock SUCKS ( accurate description of shock quality ). If you are going to spend anything on this bike, this is the first thing.
A well built YSS will be a big improvement, but won't be an Ohlins, Nitron, Yacugar and a few others. ( MY opinion) good ones are good, not good ones are better than stock, but that's about it. I found they are better at suspending the smaller lighter bikes than most though ( CBR125R for example). If the importer is also a good suspension tuner then you will have a winner though.
 
Whichever, a shock swap is 2 bolts/nuts ( though suspending the rear of the bike while you do it can be problematic). Keep the OEM shock and put it back on when/if you sell the bike.
 
I am a Shun man myself ( for cooking anyway). In a choice between the MT and my Shun , the knife would win everytime.

 
I too am a Shun man... have the set of Ken onions in my block at home.... its a toss up for me but i think the bike may win out mainaly because my other mode of trasport is missing imoortant pieces
 
 

ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by.
 

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Cresentwrench,
At you weight, my opinion is if at all financially possible, go see a suspension specialist. The big weak point of this bike is the soft springs AND poor damping. At your weight the suspension won't be helping you much at all. Pattonme may have a more accurate figure, but I think the springing on this would be OK for about 130-140lb rider ( I have convert metric so I hope that's right). The suspension, at you weight, is going to skate a bit especially with the ridiculously large rear tyre fitted to these. Even getting sufficient tyre deformation is problematic at your weight.
On the other hand , if you put some cash into decent suspension this is probably the best bike you could have bought ( a properly sorted engine late model KTM 690 Duke probably the other one) because of it's light weight and flickability. Your light weight will also help mitigate the bike/rider rear weight bias on the MT.
On tyres, when the steel hoops fitted standard wear out, I feel you would benefit from a 170 or 160 rear ( if you can get someone to fit a 160 as the rim is really a bit big for that size) . And both front and rear you will need a more compliant tyre carcass such as Michelin PR4's ( my favorite),S20 or similiar. AVOID Dunlops, as at you weight on this bike as they have even less deformation that stock Bridgestone 23's.

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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i weigh about a buck even. with gear maybe 105.
 
 
I'd have to agree with pattonme on this, as it's not going to be easy to get off the shelf suspension at your weight, but an expert could easily utilise softer components from off road parts and revalve to suit
Every effort should be made to Persue a good result because there is nothing more pleasurable on a motorcycle as the confidence gained through a comfortable and and controlled suspension
Once you have gained this nervana, reversing the mod will take less meaning, and you'll have years of delight every time you get on.
I would ask mr pattonme to set you up with a set of cartridges and soft straight wound springs from sonic, ideally with SFF for easy damping adjustment
And seek out YSS for your light application to keep the price down
As others will be well north of $1k
Or perhaps a take off shock listed in the suspension threads setup by someone expert in that field
Eg Daugherty motor sport - under $500.
 
Don't give up
Make the bike yours
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"As others will be well north of $1k" That would surprise me. Even in the land of extravagant markup where it live, both Nitron and Ohlins ( the base model and a base model Ohlins is still very excellent) were about $800. Way cheaper that an exhaust for way more benefit ( he said as a little aside). Any decent suspension place selling either will be able to set up the shock pretty close to exactly for that weight, both springing AND damping.
I don't know who the YSS people in the US are, but the same can be done for YSS shocks. It is very vendor dependant. If they are good the YSS will be good and cheaper.
In Aus apparently the YSS guy is VERY good and builds the shocks specifically but you can't guarantee that for all places. YSS's will NOT last as well as the top shelf shocks though.
Find a good suspension workshop with a good reputation should be a first task.
 
 
" Make the bike yours "...What he said.
 
 
 
 
 

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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crescentwrench

I'd like to do it right the first time and not go cheap on new shocks, but I definitely won't be able to spend $600-$800 before my first track day (11/29).
 

From your guys' very helpful and excellent posts, I gather that for now I can at least:
 
drop my psi, and,
adjust sag
 
is there anything else relatively inexpensive (under $100) I can do in the meantime?
 
also is anyone going to be messing with their forks or shocks any time soon whose shoulder i can look over?
 
you guys have given me so much info - lots for me to learn. yay :) thank you!

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if you want to shoulder-surf, maybe update your profile with Geo location so we have a hint as to where you are? I'm sure you can watch @gregjet the masterful in his element, just as long as you spring for the 15hr flight...
 
Hmm, why doesn't my profile show my location.

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A stealth patton? ( sorry I have been playing too much World of Tanks).
Did you add you location to the map Pattonme?
Actually that flight would just get you to a capital city ( Brisbane) you then have to drive north for 4 hours)
 
Cresentwrench. If you are going to do track work I strongly suggest you get a hardback book you can write setting down in, comments and times ( if you get times) and buy a BIG 4wheel drive tyre pressure gauge with one PSI increments or even half psi. You will have to experiment with tyre pressures. Unless it is a big fast track you may have to go a long way down from stock recommended pressures. ( eg on the GoKart track we used to race on my ER6 was running 26/27psi and that was with me (84kg),a much heavier bike and a proper sized tyre (160/60).
The Bridgestone S23's might just be OK on the track. I find them harsh on the road but they MAY respond to track heating well. I would be interested to hear what you find. Start at recommended pressures and go down 1 psi at a time. Don't push to get rid of the chicken stripes as the rear tyre profile is really not good for this bike ( fine for something with an extra 50Hp or more that you can push the front around by sliding but this bike is so liberally endowed.
Because of you weight you might be able to have a bit more fun than most of us on stock "soft" suspension. You will get less rock in the suspension compared with a heavier rider. Front traction would be a bit suspect though. Lower bars might be a cheap improvement. A set of flat bars will be way under $100. Especially if you put some aftermarket std over the top bars clamps on as well. Still should be under a $100 total if you do the work yourself. You need to be able to load the front on corner exit on this bike. This normally would also transfer some weight off the soft rear but in you case it probably won't be as effective. Have fun and get the "twist of the wrist" dvd's if you haven't already seen them. The second one is the best. A GOOD track stand is advisable so you can remove your side stand. And If you are doinf track work PLEASE get your self some hinge articulated boots as soon as possible . They WILL save you lower legs.
Have fun. Track days can be awesome fun, but beware male riders who think they are Rossi and are really Karel Abrahams. They can get stupidly aggressive if they get passed by a woman. I don't know if the trackies are as supportive as proper racers, but if you are lucky you should be able to make friends with people who will be happy to give constructive advice or even help you wrench if needed. If you decide to race you should find really good people who can be extremely helpful especially in the amateur racing scene (At least that's what it's like in Australia).
 
Why not start a thread on you track preps, experiments and findings. No one else has. I can pretty much guarantee there will be interest in your posts and findings.

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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Cresent wrench.
Another forum member has posted a link to youtube set of videos that is primarily about suspension but is FULL of vital stuff if you are going to track it. Best thing I have ever seen for a track newbie ( and not so newbie). If you take in all of what you see one these videos you are going to be in a seriously advantageous position to getting you and your bike perfected.
 
http://fz07.org/thread/3836/suspension-noobs
 
The Videos don't play in order for some reason so it's easier to watch them from youtube so you can ensure continuity.
Wish I had had this before I went racing.

Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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Good ol' Max... So, please nobody panic over your bike setup. Just because you're riding your bike on the track doesn't mean you're "gonna die" if your suspension is exactly as delivered from the dealer. The video is solid. But for one's first ever track excursion you're not going fast or hard enough to really get into trouble. If you are, then back your speed down till you're no longer have your heart in your mouth and you're (relatively) calm during the session.
 
If you're saying "oh shet" in your helmet with any kind of regularity or you haven't already visualized and figured out your intended actions for the approaching corner, you're riding too fast. If it means you 'saunter' down the straights, so what! Let the other guys blitz past you. You'll be happier and they'll be happy.
 
The most annoying rider at a track day is someone who wobbles thru the corners but pins it every time there is a straightaway. Hmm, we probably need a 'how to ride at a track day' thread, huh...

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