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fvsilva

Steering stabilizerstabilizer

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fvsilva
Hi guys,
 
Where do I buy a steering stabilizer for my FZ-07 ?
 
Regards
 
Felipe

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pattonme
better answer. why do you think you need one? they are completely superfluous on a properly configured bike (unless FJ09 which seems exceptionally temperamental). Unless you're racing in which case you're required to have one.
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fvsilva
I live in Brazil, here the Asphalt is irregular and there are Many holes in the streets

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pattonme
and you're hitting them at 100kph? stabilizers are a help for restoring high speed stability in the event of a sudden and hard steering input (hitting a pavement anomoly) or the front end getting out of shape because you're so hard on the gas you lose trail and thus stability. If the bike feels vague and unsettled a damper won't help.
 
If you're getting shimmies, first check/adjust/fix suspension. Then check headstock bearings (new bike it's unlikely but possible). You're welcome to bling up your bike with a damper but it will just hide the underlying problem.
 
Or maybe you've done all that?
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fvsilva
I just need photos or vídeos about steering stabilizer installed or or being installed in FZ-07

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noname
Revzilla sells one for the 07. It's about $475. Totally not needed unless you are racing.

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avanti
Thanks, noname. Sometimes a person just wants what they are asking for!
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frabus
I am still a noob but from research I have done it seems many riders think of stabilizers as a safety instrument. In addition, most people I have come across with stabilizers have nothing but good things to say about the benefits of the device and the way it improved their bikes riding characteristics. I understand a stabilizer should not be used to cure issues or symptoms of a malfunctioning component. But isn't a steering stabilizer a valid device for safety and/or ride improvement for a street rider?

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pattonme
street rider? no. Either your riding at speeds so far above legal it's not funny, or there is something wrong with your bike, how it's loaded or adjusted. I will grant you that the cheap suspension on the FZ07 and similar is unsettling when pushed. A damper may seem like a quick fix. But that same $500 could go to fixing the actual problem for good.
 
Have you set sag and are the springs at both ends appropriate? Have you adjusted rebound damping at both ends as best you are able?
 
Track day or racing, yes it can improve safety but here too, with rare exception it really is just masking the underlying issue. There have been bikes eg. '04 ZX10 and apparently the FJ09 which are in the former case unstable at any speed, and the latter which seems to have problems in certain configurations and load outs. If your bike is trimmed correctly the oscillation will stop on it's own. If not, yes it can escalate. My race bike used to head shake (more like waggle) coming out of a certain turn and a particular bump would upset the chassis. All i needed to do was change the shock length by 2-3mm and it went away for good. Had I had a stabilizer I would not have known I had the problem or I would have dismissed the situation because it 'went away' after adding it.
 
Racing orgs require them because in general the non-professional rider doesn't have the first clue what they're doing. They monkey see, monkey do; have little understanding of what proper suspension is supposed to feel like, and no concept of chassis dynamics, weight balance, effects of trail, etc. I don't even bother asking why someone pulled their forks up an inch because the answer is "it turns faster", which is true but they have no idea why they had to add a bunch of resistance to the damper and why the bars turn like a truck with broken power steering.
 
Yes, I do have a GPR on my KTM Supermotard, because it came with the bike and yes, on the one track I go to down the front straight the front goes air-borne since the road drops away. I turned it all the way off so I could detect chassis stability issues and got some decent shake that was concerning. I altered my body position, loosened up on the grips, changed the rear spring (motards with lard-ass 250lb riders are unduly rear-biased), a bit of fork rebound, and it improved considerably. It's back on setting 3 out of 9 just to temper the onset of oscillation. It's still there, I know it's there and I'm fine with it. But the bike is perfectly safe to ride without it. That would not have been the case had I kept using the damper to pretend there weren't stability issues.
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frabus
street rider? no. Either your riding at speeds so far above legal it's not funny, or there is something wrong with your bike, how it's loaded or adjusted. I will grant you that the cheap suspension on the FZ07 and similar is unsettling when pushed. A damper may seem like a quick fix. But that same $500 could go to fixing the actual problem for good. 
Have you set sag and are the springs at both ends appropriate? Have you adjusted rebound damping at both ends as best you are able?
 
Track day or racing, yes it can improve safety but here too, with rare exception it really is just masking the underlying issue. There have been bikes eg. '04 ZX10 and apparently the FJ09 which are in the former case unstable at any speed, and the latter which seems to have problems in certain configurations and load outs. If your bike is trimmed correctly the oscillation will stop on it's own. If not, yes it can escalate. My race bike used to head shake (more like waggle) coming out of a certain turn and a particular bump would upset the chassis. All i needed to do was change the shock length by 2-3mm and it went away for good. Had I had a stabilizer I would not have known I had the problem or I would have dismissed the situation because it 'went away' after adding it.
 
Racing orgs require them because in general the non-professional rider doesn't have the first clue what they're doing. They monkey see, monkey do; have little understanding of what proper suspension is supposed to feel like, and no concept of chassis dynamics, weight balance, effects of trail, etc. I don't even bother asking why someone pulled their forks up an inch because the answer is "it turns faster", which is true but they have no idea why they had to add a bunch of resistance to the damper and why the bars turn like a truck with broken power steering.
 
Yes, I do have a GPR on my KTM Supermotard, because it came with the bike and yes, on the one track I go to down the front straight the front goes air-borne since the road drops away. I turned it all the way off so I could detect chassis stability issues and got some decent shake that was concerning. I altered my body position, loosened up on the grips, changed the rear spring (motards with lard-ass 250lb riders are unduly rear-biased), a bit of fork rebound, and it improved considerably. It's back on setting 3 out of 9 just to temper the onset of oscillation. It's still there, I know it's there and I'm fine with it. But the bike is perfectly safe to ride without it. That would not have been the case had I kept using the damper to pretend there weren't stability issues.
 
 
Thanks for the explanation, as I said I'm still a novice to motorcycles. Evenmore, suspension and handling are some of the most complex subjects I am still trying to understand.

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pauljr
I'm not going to get involved in this again.....BUT.....I can't understand why so many folks here seem to assume stabilizers are bad or non useful. I must agree the suspension really needs some help but the bike is prone to providing unwanted feedback if you are cranked over and encounter bumpy pavement. If you don't understand what is happening you can make it worse with your own inputs on the bars. I would expect some older riders here should try to assist what could be first timers, considering that may be the target audience for this bike.

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pattonme
hitting bumps is supposed to wag the bars within reason. It's normal. Using a damper to hide reality is a bad idea. If the novice crashes because he panics when encountering the laws of physics, that's unfortunate but using a device to "protect" him won't cure him of his ignorance. What's he going to do when he's riding the next bike and the next? Keep spending $500 on a damper so he won't ever learn not to freak out? Never learn how to listen to what the chassis is trying to tell him?
 
 
>bike is prone to providing unwanted feedback if you are cranked over and encounter bumpy pavement.
 
Nope. The chassis is feeding you WANTED feedback that you should be paying attention to. Reacting improperly is entirely the rider's fault. Not the bike's.
 
> If you don't understand what is happening you can make it worse with your own inputs on the bars
 
Very true. And it might cost you a crash or two until you start learning from your mistakes. Many of Life's lessons are learned the hard way. Sorry.
 
I tell my graduating class that their completion certificate means that they have 'demonstrated sufficient skill to have a better than even chance of not killing themselves in an empty parking lot at speeds up to 20mph', and nothing more.
 
 

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pauljr
Not wanting to get into any kind of flame war and did not intend to insult anyone. I've had lots of bikes with worse suspension that were easier to ride. A bike can wobble all over the place and instill confidence, lots of 70's era bikes had wonky suspension and frames to match. I totally support improving suspension on any bike I own if I decide to keep it long enough. Suspension would be the first thing I put money into on any bike including the FZ07. I'm just not too sure that a stabilizer would not improve the bike, no 'I' won't invest the money to find out prior to a fork upgrade then shock, but on the other hand I would not try to dissuade someone from purchasing one for a bike that seems to 'me' quite nervous. I've learned lots of my lessons the hard way, just would like to think I might pass some along to riders at the other end of the spectrum. This is all my personal opinion and not intended to be a way of taking a swipe at anyone else.
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pattonme
Don't worry @pauljr, you're not offending me in the least. In fact, your pushing back prompted me to go find some data.
 
If the Internet is correct the FZ could definitely stand more trail - only 90mm whereas even GSXRs have 95+, and a rake of 24 deg which is on the steeper end of things. I looked at a bunch of sport bikes (GSX, GSXR, SV, CBR, Ducati, R6, FZ6, FZ8, R1, etc) and if they don't have 25 degrees in rake, they have trail in the high 90's or low 100. Even the legendarily unstable '04 ZX10 has 102mm of trail at 24deg. The sharpest handling config I found in a quick search was the GSXR750 with 23.8/97. Which explains why Traxxion makes fork caps to lengthen the fork and push the rake up to about 24.3.
 
So, it looks like another royally stupid decision by Yamaha, pursuing quick steering to such an extreme degree that they compromised the overall package. Combine that with fork springs so soft they collapse, you shorten trail even further. And it looks like they screwed the pooch for the FJ09 too, 100mm@24 which helps explain why that one has far more reports of stability issues than it should have.
 
So, I hereby walk back my earlier assertion that a damper is not needed for the FZ07 (I will however defend the general case). This bike has all the wrong numbers for good stability, and 10x so if the intended audience was newbie riders. The weak shock probably ameliorates it somewhat, and putting in the right fork spring definitely helps maintain trail. But don't let me stop you from buying a damper, though you can get the Daytona style for less money.
 
 
 
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cybmx
I don't really understand all the technical data here but my bike felt so much better after the damper installed. Hiding the flaws or whatever, it felt good and boosted my confidence. That's all that matters.

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pattonme
yes, fixed. I meant to say more trail and conflated the words

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thomascrown
You only need to ride an FZ6R and FZ07 back to back, and realize that this bike needs a damper. Both crappy budget suspensions, but the FZ is a livewire. Especially when hard on the gas at speeds over 70.

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pauljr
pattonme, glad you weren't offended. After I posted the second time I actually had regrets about the post. I thought about it a bit and got to wondering if all the bikes I thought were great, were just great to me. I can't put myself inside someone else and feel what they feel from a bike and I've just always assumed (bad thing) everybody would get a confident feel from the same bikes I did. Probably pretty stupid on my part. Makes me wish there were a way to compare just to see if riders were even in the same ballpark, or some sort of magic formula where you could plug in a bunch of variables and figure out if a bike would suit you.

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dqban
I installed one. Bike was wobbly at speeds above 70mph....no longer is. The light Front end means less weight on front wheel at these speeds. I have no regret about install. Bike is now noticeably more confident. I still plan on upgrading forks soon.

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theblur
Don't put yourself inside anyone else! Without permission, anway.
Haha no for real though I kind of enjoy the flickability of the bike but I feel like unless you're on the gas 70+ doesn't feel great. Those numbers are crazy, thanks for looking them up, very sharp steering geometry...
I have noticed you can change lines anywhere in a turn, and I get a little headshake coming out of turns on the gas (or sometimes a low wheelie if I'm giving too much ) but never any headshake coming down from wheelies or anything...
So for me, I'll upgrade the fork and shock and maybe one day do the stabilizer.
BTW
I am/was one of those squids who lowered their forks about 5 years ago and got quicker steering at the expense of pretty much everything else including clearance on my gs500, just to add clip ons. And yes, it was dumb.

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