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rapture333

Brake Upgrade

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rapture333

Last week I almost got in an accident with a local hotel shuttle, the shuttle was two lanes away in a turning lane and decided to cut across right in front of me quickly without using a turn signal. Needless to say, I hit the brakes and found myself nearly locked up and the rear started fish tailing, but I stayed up and straight and avoided a collision. With that being said, I felt that if that shuttle just pulled out a little later I might not have been able to slow down in time. I'm not looking on turning my FZ-07 into a track monster, but I would splurge on some brake upgrades. Does anyone have any specific ideas/parts I could look into to really increase the breakage on my bike? It's a 2015 so I believe it already has ABS if I am correct (at least that's what my insurance company says). And are there any other safety upgrades that anyone recommends?
 
Ride safe,
 
Rapture
 

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cndnmax

We're are you from? North American fz-07 don't have abs.
 
You can get braided lines and HH pads. That's all you should need
 
Ps. Better brakes will make you more prone to fish tailing, don't brake so hard with the rear brake!

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mjh937

Someone (unfortunately I forget who) upgraded their brakes and warped the rotors due to the additional heat generated. I do remember that he was on a track. I doubt you will have a problem with street use but I wanted to make sure you knew a possible side effect.

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rapture333
We're are you from? North American fz-07 don't have abs.  
You can get braided lines and HH pads. That's all you should need
 
Ps. Better brakes will make you more prone to fish tailing, don't brake so hard with the rear brake!
I am actually from Key West, FL. And sounds like a plan, I'll just upgrade the brake pads then, no need to put brembo's on a bike right?  
So far I found a set of HH's online for relatively, do these only fit the rear? EBC Double-H Sintered Brake Pads FA174HH
 
Also, what kind of brake lines do you recommend?
 

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riding4fun

Best advice would be to take the bike to an open parking lot and start practicing panic stops and see how you can improve your stopping distance. I am positive that the brakes are just fine. If you do put on aftermarket brake pads and braided lines I would suggest doing the same in an open clear parking lot. If the new brakes grab harder your going to lock up the front and then you will be in real trouble.
 
JMO as always. It just seems like everyone blames the bike but it could be the rider. Upgraded parts don't make the rider better.

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rapture333
Best advice would be to take the bike to an open parking lot and start practicing panic stops and see how you can improve your stopping distance. I am positive that the brakes are just fine. If you do put on aftermarket brake pads and braided lines I would suggest doing the same in an open clear parking lot. If the new brakes grab harder your going to lock up the front and then you will be in real trouble. 
JMO as always. It just seems like everyone blames the bike but it could be the rider. Upgraded parts don't make the rider better.
Here here, I suppose if I was able to lock the rear brakes then perhaps it was me and not the brakes that need an upgrade. I think I might do exactly what you prescribed, I've also been thinking about taking an advanced riders course at the same place I got my original course done, might be life saving one day. 
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superhawk848

Did you even use the front brake? If not, you should practice braking hard using only the front brake.

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YZEtc

Myself, I'd simply install HH-rated (I use EBC HH pads) on the front and leave it at that.
In my opinion, with only this change the front brakes are very good with good braking power and light-to-moderate brake lever pressure required to obtain the feel I wanted.
 
However, even with the world's best front brakes, you still need adequate space to pull-off some kind of brake-and-avoid maneuver if some other motorist puts a move on you, and you also need the ability to know how to do it.
If you don't actually know how to slow the bike down and maneuver out of the way of an intruder, it doesn't matter what your brake hardware is priced at.
 
Under hard braking, the rear will get light every time and is why the rear brake rotor and caliper is much smaller than the front.

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superhawk848
 
Under hard braking, the rear will get light every time and is why the rear brake rotor and caliper is much smaller than the front.
[br 
The rear will get light with heavy front braking. This is why the op should practice heavy breaking with the front, so that he will have a feel for how hard he should brake under any situation. If he grabs a hand full of front brake, he could easily flip the bike. There is more power in the front brake, and more feel compared to the rear brake

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RobMoore

You cannot use the rear brake the same way you use the front brake in an emergency stop.
 
The front requires a steady increase in pressure. If you try to do that with the rear it will lock up as the weight shifts forward. You have to decrease pressure on your right foot as you start braking hard with the front.
 
That's why I don't even bother with the rear. Yes, using both perfectly will stop you the quickest, but for ME I know I will stop quicker with my full attention on the front brake, maximizing it, as opposed to splitting my attention between two different braking systems that require different curves of pressure.

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No Hater

As stated above I would highly recommend practicing your stops in a parking lot. I took all the courses offered by the motorcycle safety folks and the collision avoidance and immediate stopping practice was probably all I really benefited from. The back tire doesn't do much so figuring out how much pressure you can throw on the front break is helpful. I also am pretty comfortable with fish tailing this bike too. I came from the dirt world so I had a tendency to rely more on a rear break. As many know, this is no good on the street.
 
For me, the breaks seem strong enough for me on the street. If I brought her to the track and was really looking to jam, it would probably be a different story.

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Beemer

I think you just had a good scare. I'm accustom to locking up the rear tire. Sometimes I do it on purpose but I do it with good control because I've practiced (hint) it a lot so my brakes are just fine.  Your brakes worked, you stopped, so what's the problem? You want to stop faster? Careful, without any practice you might lock up more powerful front brakes in a panic stop and do an endo. Maybe not walk away from that one. 

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Beemer

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fromthecage

Honestly, upgrade the front suspension. The factory front suspension allows for a lot of brake dive. Upgrading the front suspension will help reduce the braking distance.

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pattonme

> If he grabs a hand full of front brake, he could easily flip the bike
 
Endos (on street bikes especially) are ONLY possible with skill and controlled execution. So let's dispense with the 'you can flip a bike under panic braking' nonsense. 'hit' or 'grab' the brake and you will lock the front tire and wash out, long, LONG before you get the rear even an inch off the ground.
 
Hard stopping requires practice and more practice. Excessive dive makes it hard for the rider to gauge his level of effort and safety margin - so get the correct springs for your weight at least. Pads are a personal thing - some like grabby, others like 4-fingers to the bar and it still doesn't do anything (ie. some SBS pad I had once; never again), while others have a gentle initial bite and then come on strong.


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fz07fanboy

From what you described, you didn't use the front brakes enough believing you needed a brake upgrade. If you fishtailed, it seems as if you used mostly rear brakes.

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superhawk848
> If he grabs a hand full of front brake, he could easily flip the bike 
 So let's dispense with the 'you can flip a bike under panic braking' nonsense. 'hit' or 'grab' the brake and you will lock the front tire and wash out, long, LONG before you get the rear even an inch off the ground.
 
 
 
Not true, I had a coworker who did just that.  Yes under heavy front braking the front end can wash out, but to say you cant endo is nonsense
 
 

 

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RobMoore

I've seen a panic endo on a bike with ABS.

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cndnmax
I've seen a panic endo on a bike with ABS.
 
 
Very basic abs only work if the wheel locks up. More expensive all inclusive systems will have sensors to detect those types of things.

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ratlab

most bikes can lock the front-better pads and lines-you get better feel.i put braided lines and ebc hh pads on.i think brakes are pretty good with just doing that.pads give different feeling.ex.-vesrah rjl has a very strong initial bite,ebc gets stronger as you pull lever.remember when you change pads to scotch brite your discs to get the old material off.some pads have very little break in time and some will glaze up if not carefully broken in.unless you do minimum of front springs for your weight,i wouldn't bother with brake upgrades.

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RobMoore
I've seen a panic endo on a bike with ABS.
Very basic abs only work if the wheel locks up. More expensive all inclusive systems will have sensors to detect those types of things.
 
 
Damn those cheap ass systems they put on BMW's flagship sport bike.
 

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pattonme

Seems I need to 'walk back' my blanket assertion - hey, I live in DC. when the facts don't fit the narrative, it's the facts that are wrong. Or I was quoted out of context. ;-)
 
To the BMW rider's credit that was actually a controlled and hard stop that he carried a little too far. My statement was couched on the premise that a rider 'hit' or 'grab' the brakes. He may have indeed grabbed them initially but the ABS reacted to the front-skid and actually turned it into a hard stop.
 
So, I will modify my assertion. Sans ABS you can not flip a bike by grabbing or hitting the brakes. You will crash first, generally as soon as you 'hit' those brakes. Now, if you manage to execute a perfectly done maximum stop and all the weight is on the front wheel and you continue to increase brake pressure, yes you can flip it over. Also if you piss off a MotoGP competitor during qualifying and he rides along side and whacks your brake lever hard, the exceptional grip of hot racing pads on over-sized rotors and hot racing rubber's grip on tarmac, one can indeed flip the whole thing over before the front has a chance to do much skidding and thus low-side.
 
My less-nuanced comment earlier was a result of years of listening to riders of a certain age and preference for Milwaukee iron who incessantly claim that they can't use the front brake because they'd flip their bikes, so that's why they just stomp on the rear. Hazards of being an instructor.
 
Forget the Donald, see I can word-smith as good as the rest of them. *shoots self*


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gregjet

Sorry to bring up the elephant in the room but the main reason for the uncontrollable rear brake is the soft underdamped rear end. Between the brake rock ( front dive and rear lift under brakes) from this cause and the lack of rebound damping, it exaggerates the rear lightening and reduces grip. Soft front doesn't help but prime candidate is soft rear. The bike is pretty light anyway with a ridiculously big rear tyre that reduces the area/load on it. Carbon-metal pads may help modulation a bit ( NOT STRAIGHT CARBON-race only).
Braided lines will help with brake feel/feedback as well. The standard soggy rubber things had a release lag common to Yamahas.


Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify...

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cndnmax
Very basic abs only work if the wheel locks up. More expensive all inclusive systems will have sensors to detect those types of things.
Damn those cheap ass systems they put on BMW's flagship sport bike.

You realize you never mentioned the type of bike right. Also, the bike in that video seems like it's got some ridiculous stopping power. ABS isn't magic.

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Guest Ralph

Bleeding hell the kamikaze pedestri-swine knew to keep going.

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thomascrown

I would have ran his ass over. No need to brake.

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