maz20 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (**Disclaimer: no dealers offer "test rides" where I live (you just have to buy the bike). Hence, given my limited experience, I'm pretty much forced to ask what is probably a bunch of easy/stupid questions since the only bikes I can test ride are ones nearby rental agencies offer) Hi, I have recently purchased a new 2015 FZ-07 (everything is stock and I already put 2000+ miles on it), and, well, it seems kind of slow (especially coming out from a stop, e.g., stop sign or red light). That said, I should mention that I usually cruise around 3-4K rpm (sometimes, lower like 2.7K), and I don't really go above 4K rpm unless on the freeway/highway (around 70-80mph, 6th gear). Otherwise, engine braking makes the controlling the throttle a bit more intense around the higher rpms. Plus, most of my riding is in the city... Now, in comparison, the Honda NC-700X (which cruises ~2K and redlines ~6K) it feels like I have power everywhere. Coming out from a stop or just accelerating on the highway, this engine just feels way more powerful -- even though they are both 700cc twins! The Honda NC-700X can effortlessly blast out of a hard stop (e.g., stop sign or traffic light) and doesn't need to go into higher revs (and has more instant power). The downside -- is that NC700x seat height is higher and the bike is much heavier (don't like the ergos). In other words, the NC-700X seems much more "effortlessly faster" than the FZ-07, but the ergos suck (relatively speaking). So, I'm wondering 1) Any reason why this seems to be the case? Even the KTM 690 duke (single cylinder) has more instant power than the FZ-07... 2) I've never ridden a four-cylinder bike (e.g., supersport), nor any bike >700cc. Given my riding style, does this mean supersports or four-cylinder bikes are going to feel like snails to me compared to the FZ-07? 3) Or, is all of this really just a matter of the motorcycle's ECU? E.g., FZ-07 seems programmed to be very "docile" with the throttle fuel-mapping... 4) Because I was annoyed with what seems to be a slow bike/docile throttle, I decided to go full throttle in second gear one time and power-wheelied the FZ-07 (about 40-degrees). Everything was fine, I simply engine-braked out of the wheelie (tried it again in 3rd, no power-wheelie). So, I'm guessing maybe torque-wise the FZ-07 may not be that bad, so does that just mean the apparent slowness is just from question [HASH]3 -- the overly-docile 'ECU'/fuel-mapping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ralph Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Your post just goes to show how two people can see things totally differently, are you sure it wasn't the 125 version, I rode the The Honda NC-700X and the thing would not pull your cap off. Going off your post it sounds like your not using enough revs in the lower gears and to be honest would likely be better with a big'ish V twin of some description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMoore Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 You should take note of where this bike makes most of its power. By staying under 5k rpms you are missing out. Cruising between 3-4 you're really missing out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwpowere36m3 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 FZ makes power around 4-5k, cruise accordingly... Personally, I'm always at or above 3k.... More like 4-6k is my norm, regardless city or highway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassecou Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 ...... In other words, the NC-700X seems much more "effortlessly faster" than the FZ-07 ..... "Seems" is very relative, but hard numbers speak for themselves. The NC-700 does its 1/4 miles at about 14.3 sec, as the FZ-07 (in par with most its cc size) is at about 12.4 sec. http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/12/31/four-affordable-motorcycles-for-city-commuting-and-cross-country-adventure/ So "Coming out from a stop or just accelerating on the highway" is certainly a lot faster on the FZ-07. 4cyl bikes are an other beast. Find yourself at higher rpm's, and your 1/4 miles time start going down quickly. http://www.sportrider.com/tech/sportbike-performance-numbers But the major drawback of 4cyl bikes, is that you cannot stop yourself from going faster and faster and faster, until you hit 160mph. 2cyl bikes will limit you from going that fast, and save the day. Over all, the Honda NC700 is a great bike, for being the perfect commuter, with great gas mileage and plenty of room (a glorified scooter). but lacks the fun of a real bike. Its just "anemic". The FZ-07 is a superior motorcycle, with lots of character. Still good gas mileage and enough adds on to make it an exceptional commuter, a touring bike or just a plain Hooligan Those are two very different bikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkH Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 To be honest, this is one of the more puzzling topics I've ever come across on these boards. Its like bizarro world! A NC-700X's 0-60mph is 2 seconds slower than the FZ-07! Numbers don't lie... so I have no clue what's going on. Maybe you somehow bought one that has a restrictor on it? Seriously no clue... but hell even the Yamaha R3 (320cc) 0-60mph is faster than the NC-700X by 1 second!!! Or... or maybe, just maybe you owned a NC-700X that had a turbo kit on it or something! EDIT, oh wait, I was looking at the ABS model. The non ABS will be -0.6 seconds I visit here at least once a week. Got any questions, ask and I will answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomascrown Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I think the nc is slow enough that you don't feel intimidated whacking the throttle open in first gear. The fz would likely loop you out for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YZEtc Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Myself, I don't see how cruising around at 2,700 RPM seems like a fun thing to do. That's just above idle RPM. But, I guess that's just what some riders prefer. I know a guy who used to own (and he owned this bike for about 10 years, at least, if not more) a Honda CB700SC, AKA the Nighthawk S. Nice-looking motorcycle, with a revvy 4-cylinder, air-cooled engine. It didn't have a lot of low-end torque, but had enough of it to make everyday riding easy. Where it did make power was toward the top of it's rev range, and this is one of the things that the motorcycling magazines liked about it - it gave it a sporty feel. Well, the guy I knew with this bike never revved it more than half way to redline, practically never using any of the horsepower and torque that the engine was built to deliver. He felt that doing such things all the time would wear the engine out and/or cause a mechanical malfunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I read that you think the bike seems kind of slow, especially coming out from a stop and I stopped reading when I got to where you said, "and I don't really go above 4K rpm unless on the freeway/highway". I believe you have the wrong impression of the FZ-07 and suggest you get on the gas harder and then you should have a different impression of it's speed from a standstill and accelerating. I got on it hard the other day and it about scared the bejeebus out of me and I've been riding a long time! This bike is no slouch at 0 - 60, even compared to an CBR600RR but you do have to give it a lot of gas to get any real speed. Give it full throttle in 1st after you get going and stay on the gas throughout the gears up to 60 and see what happens, I have $20 that says your eyes widen. Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member yamahappy74 Posted August 27, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted August 27, 2015 In order to achieve that 1st gear power wheelie (which the FZ-07 does very easily), I do have to rotate my grip forward slightly, but otherwise, this bike is a beast in 1st and 2nd and still has plenty of pulling power up to 100mph. As much as I love going faster, that's plenty for city riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maz20 Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 Well, as has been mentioned, I gotta ride >4K rpm. I did, and the bike definitely shined. Granted, it still doesn't feel like I have that "instant power", i.e., I still get the power but it feels like there is always a delay, unless I ride ~5K rpm or so (but then, it feels kind of harder to ride the bike due to the greater engine braking at greater revs -- basically, at 5K revs I get bigger/more instant throttle response (which is good!!) but a bigger engine braking response too (doesn't feel as comfortable. Not sure if there are mods/options for this)). On a side note, I'm thinking of lowering the gearing for my bike, for greater off-the-line acceleration. It seems that, by changing sprocket ratios, you can alter how a bike "feels" in a given gear. So, does that mean you can theoretically make a supersport ride like a cruiser (of comparable horsepower) just by lowering the gearing? Not sure if that's taking the concept of sprocket changes a little too far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Moderator mjh937 Posted October 4, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted October 4, 2015 An ECU flash will help with the engine braking. I cannot imagine lowering the gearing. I already cannot keep the front wheel down when I accelerate quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Moderator sorkyah Posted October 4, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted October 4, 2015 Well, as has been mentioned, I gotta ride >4K rpm. I did, and the bike definitely shined. Granted, it still doesn't feel like I have that "instant power", i.e., I still get the power but it feels like there is always a delay, unless I ride ~5K rpm or so (but then, it feels kind of harder to ride the bike due to the greater engine braking at greater revs -- basically, at 5K revs I get bigger/more instant throttle response (which is good!!) but a bigger engine braking response too (doesn't feel as comfortable. Not sure if there are mods/options for this)). On a side note, I'm thinking of lowering the gearing for my bike, for greater off-the-line acceleration. It seems that, by changing sprocket ratios, you can alter how a bike "feels" in a given gear. So, does that mean you can theoretically make a supersport ride like a cruiser (of comparable horsepower) just by lowering the gearing? Not sure if that's taking the concept of sprocket changes a little too far... Lowering the gearing will allow for higher top speed, while raising the gearing will allow for better acceleration But im with mjh on this one... this thing has a hard enough time keeping the front wheel on the ground I personally am going -2 on the rear sprocket for better fuel econ/highway cruising (stock gearing is F-16t, R-43t... 2.69 final drive gear ratio... Mine will be a 2.56) ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ralph Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 The 07 is the only bike "and I have had over 65" that I have owned that I actually feel the gearing is right on out the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qldnat Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Twist that throttle, open it up, and don't shift to early. This bike is no turtle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMoore Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 lowering the gearing allows for higher top speed It doesn't always work that way, most bikes I know of you end up with about the same top speed, but spin lower rpms when you get there, which is the real goal of lower gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Moderator sorkyah Posted October 4, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted October 4, 2015 lowering the gearing allows for higher top speed It doesn't always work that way, most bikes I know of you end up with about the same top speed, but spin lower rpms when you get there, which is the real goal of lower gears. It doesnt always work... but its rare when it doesnt(electronic limiting ...) let me reword my prior statement Lowering the gearing will theoretically raise the top speed unless fhere are restrictions on the ecu/throttle of the motorcycle.... it will however take forever to reach that higher speed ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maz20 Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 Lowering the gearing will allow for higher top speed, while raising the gearing will allow for better acceleration I keep mistaking the terminology -- according to http://www.renthal.com/shop/support/tech-support/gearing-further what im doing is gearing it "down" for greater acceleration. "Lower" is not the same thing I guess, although I've sometimes heard it as gearing "shorter". Anyway, terminology aside , im planning on going -1 tooth in the front sprocket for better acceleration. (I primarily drive in the city, with usually only like 10mi at a time on highway/freeway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Moderator sorkyah Posted October 4, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted October 4, 2015 Lowering the gearing will allow for higher top speed, while raising the gearing will allow for better accelerationI keep mistaking the terminology -- according to http://www.renthal.com/shop/support/tech-support/gearing-further what im doing is gearing it "down" for greater acceleration. "Lower" is not the same thing I guess, although I've sometimes heard it as gearing "shorter". Anyway, terminology aside , im planning on going -1 tooth in the front sprocket for better acceleration. (I primarily drive in the city, with usually only like 10mi at a time on highway/freeway) Going +3 in the rear would be the same as going -1 on front and will be less stressful on the chain wear wise @pgeldz went +2 in the rear with a 520 conversion and tracks his bike quite often as well as daily driving ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batscat Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 You should trade it in on the Honda and be happy this bike just does not have that low revving engine. It's basically just half a crv engine low rev car engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Sorkyah, If you find a smaller rear let me know. I want to do the same. The MT rolls around town comfortably in 6th gear and will even pull from 50kph smoothly. At 100kph it is a bit busy. A gear up would help the economy to eek a bit more range from the princess tiny tank. The only way I found was to go 520 chain, so I have been putting it off until the sprockets or chain needs replacing, and change the lot. I thinbk the NC700, is even more than the MT, cammed for low end. If so it would seem to have more poke off the line but will get a touch asthmatic once the revs build . Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Moderator sorkyah Posted October 9, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted October 9, 2015 Sorkyah, If you find a smaller rear let me know. I want to do the same. The MT rolls around town comfortably in 6th gear and will even pull from 50kph smoothly. At 100kph it is a bit busy. A gear up would help the economy to eek a bit more range from the princess tiny tank. The only way I found was to go 520 chain, so I have been putting it off until the sprockets or chain needs replacing, and change the lot. I thinbk the NC700, is even more than the MT, cammed for low end. If so it would seem to have more poke off the line but will get a touch asthmatic once the revs build . I have changed to 520 went vortex 41t in the rear 16t renthal ultralight in the front w/did erv3 xring chain ATGATT... ATTATT, two acronyms I live by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregjet Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yeah, that would br my pick as well. Thanks Go forth and modify my son...go forth and modify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ralph Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 You can buy a lot of fuel for so it is a good idea to change the lot when you need a new chain, the NC is quite the worst modern bike I have ever rode, absolutely gut less and a seat that makes the 07 on feel like riding on air, so I would suggest a good long test ride before going to the Honda, here in the UK there seems to be more used ones for sale than were sold new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemer Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I think the nc is slow enough that you don't feel intimidated whacking the throttle open in first gear. The fz would likely loop you out for that. I agree, the NC 700 was designed to entice Car drivers, relatively new riders and newb's that wanted a first bike so Honda borrowed technology from their car division so the NC 700 basically has a frickin car engine in it. No wonder it's heavier and slower. It wasn't made for raucus riders like most people that wanted an FZ-07. It was made for more laid back people or people that are intimidated by bikes like an 1/4 mile scorching FZ-07. I've heard this more than once on the net but haven't been able to find it ... I've heard that some guy was clocked at 11. *** in the 1/4 on an FZ-07. If anyone finds anything on that please share it with us for confirmation, thanks! Beemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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