FZ-07 or R3 - Could use some input

[fromthecage]

geez, it looks like the closest they are getting to you is southern california. You could always make a weekend of it and visit Vista on September 18th-19th if you really, really, really want to test them both....... but that's a hell of a drive

[hippiebikerchick]

@fromthecage Fairfield, CA. Essentially in the Bay Area. I used Yamaha's demo day search on their site for places near me but no results came up. I could try searching again though and see if things have changed.
 
 

I don't know how soon you want to do this but if you can wait until November 6-8, the Progressive International Motorcycle Show is coming to Sacramento, CA. If you get there right when it starts you can sign up for demo rides.

[ratlab]

As much as I agree with @ratlab about the R3 helping you to become a better rider, I worry that your previous experience with the 636 would allow you to get bored with the R3 too soon. I agree that pushing the R3 to the limits would be a blast. Unfortunately, most of the time riding the bike will be far from it's limits. The FZ has that usable fun factor. In saying that, the R3 would be the better learning bike, however I think it will be quickly outgrown by someone who had begun to get comfortable with a more powerful bike. Had there been no previous motorcycle experience or very limited rides on a low powered bike the R3 would be my recommendation hands down.

when i was younger-i had to have the latest,greatest,fastest-now i can have just as much fun on a 250/300 as i could on my gsxr-1000-that being said,if a manufacturer came out with a lightweight sportsbike with a little more punch,i'd be all over it. 

[pattonme]

@ratlab, wouldn't that be the KTM RC390 you want, then?

[aeisan]

This isn't to bash anyone as far as thinking ABS and slipper clutches will hinder you. They won't. I'm all for knowing how to ride properly and techniques but you need to decide what you feel can be good safety features and having a slipper clutch and ABS are great options. I've been riding 14yrs, 6 bikes (2001 Suzuki Katana, 2002 Kawasaki ZX-9R, 2001 GSX-R 1000, 2012 Honda CBR 250R, 2014 Ninja 300 SE ABS, 2015 Yamaha FZ-07. Having some of these features can help build confidence as well as help you learn to ride better. I spoke to Hardracing.com and they said a slipper clutch is in the works and when it does come out, better believe I'll be swapping out my clutch for it. Why, because I like to ride hard and accelerate and brake the last minute sometimes all while down shifting and it can be hard to down shift, use front brake and blip the throttle while using the front brake. You came from a 636 but by reading what you wrote, you were only getting use to it. To me you seemed to be hindered from learning more than you could have. I still don't get how you can't flat foot any of the bikes. I'm 6' 1" 190lbs. The 300 holds its own the twisties with a good rider and will keep up just fine in traffic on the freeway.

I'm not saying they are bad, I'm merely saying they are crutches that could promote improper technique with new riders.  Being a rider with 14 years of experience, by all means go for those options.  However, riders just starting out will certainly be hindered in terms of learning proper rev matching and braking technique when crutches exist that do not require said techniques to be used.   
I'm all for a slipper clutch on my bike... I've been riding 15 years myself and would love one, as well as possibly a quick shifter, but I'm glad I didn't have one on any of my older bikes as I was learning to ride (mostly because back then they were almost exclusively aftermarketoptions and mainly used on the track).  

[ratlab]

@ratlab, wouldn't that be the KTM RC390 you want, then?

i don't like singles-but definately on the radar-dreamin of a 400cc triple with adjustable suspension. 

[fz07fanboy]

This isn't to bash anyone as far as thinking ABS and slipper clutches will hinder you. They won't. I'm all for knowing how to ride properly and techniques but you need to decide what you feel can be good safety features and having a slipper clutch and ABS are great options. I've been riding 14yrs, 6 bikes (2001 Suzuki Katana, 2002 Kawasaki ZX-9R, 2001 GSX-R 1000, 2012 Honda CBR 250R, 2014 Ninja 300 SE ABS, 2015 Yamaha FZ-07. Having some of these features can help build confidence as well as help you learn to ride better. I spoke to Hardracing.com and they said a slipper clutch is in the works and when it does come out, better believe I'll be swapping out my clutch for it. Why, because I like to ride hard and accelerate and brake the last minute sometimes all while down shifting and it can be hard to down shift, use front brake and blip the throttle while using the front brake. You came from a 636 but by reading what you wrote, you were only getting use to it. To me you seemed to be hindered from learning more than you could have. I still don't get how you can't flat foot any of the bikes. I'm 6' 1" 190lbs. The 300 holds its own the twisties with a good rider and will keep up just fine in traffic on the freeway.

I'm not saying they are bad, I'm merely saying they are crutches that could promote improper technique with new riders.  Being a rider with 14 years of experience, by all means go for those options.  However, riders just starting out will certainly be hindered in terms of learning proper rev matching and braking technique when crutches exist that do not require said techniques to be used.   
I'm all for a slipper clutch on my bike... I've been riding 15 years myself and would love one, as well as possibly a quick shifter, but I'm glad I didn't have one on any of my older bikes as I was learning to ride (mostly because back then they were almost exclusively aftermarketoptions and mainly used on the track).  

I understand what you mean by possibly learning improper techniques but the technique he learns in order to the ride the only bike he has, did he learn improperly? What you're speaking of is when if ever he gets another bike that may not have those options that he'll have to learn a few new things in order to ride that bike with confidence. The techniques that he learns in order to ride his own bike no matter what options don't necessarily make it the wrong way of learning. If he's able to ride, learn and build confidence riding a bike that has ABS and a slipper clutch then that can be a stepping stone to learning other techniques later such as rev matching (blipping the throttle) and learning the limit of front braking with one or two fingers.
 

[somejello]

@fromthecage Yeah I'm surprised that there aren't more near the Bay Area. I don't have any intention of going all the way down to souther cali just for a Yamaha demo day haha.
 
@hippiebikerchick I was actually planning on making my purchase around the middle of October. I could wait another few weeks if I'd get the chance to actually ride both bikes. I'll look into that Progressive motor show some more.

[aeisan]

I'm not saying they are bad, I'm merely saying they are crutches that could promote improper technique with new riders.  Being a rider with 14 years of experience, by all means go for those options.  However, riders just starting out will certainly be hindered in terms of learning proper rev matching and braking technique when crutches exist that do not require said techniques to be used.   
I'm all for a slipper clutch on my bike... I've been riding 15 years myself and would love one, as well as possibly a quick shifter, but I'm glad I didn't have one on any of my older bikes as I was learning to ride (mostly because back then they were almost exclusively aftermarketoptions and mainly used on the track).  

I understand what you mean by possibly learning improper techniques but the technique he learns in order to the ride the only bike he has, did he learn improperly? What you're speaking of is when if ever he gets another bike that may not have those options that he'll have to learn a few new things in order to ride that bike with confidence. The techniques that he learns in order to ride his own bike no matter what options don't necessarily make it the wrong way of learning. If he's able to ride, learn and build confidence riding a bike that has ABS and a slipper clutch then that can be a stepping stone to learning other techniques later such as rev matching (blipping the throttle) and learning the limit of front braking with one or two fingers.

Very valid points; points with which I don't disagree with.  Precisely why I mentioned in my prior post that there are plenty of good points to the contrary of mine.  I just think learning is more easily done early rather than re-learning something later on. Kind of the old adage "it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks."  

[fz07fanboy]

Sometimes it can be easier to learn something forgiving before learning something that may not be as forgiving. Same goes for learning to ride a 300 which doesn't have a lot of power vs. FZ-07 which has plenty enough to get you in trouble. Don't blip the throttle possibly on down shift while learning, then possibly lock up the wheel or get thrown forward and lose control. First time someone or something gets in front of you and you grab a handful of brake, well I'm sure you know what will happen there. I don't think he may have gotten enough experience on the 636. Just because he put 2500 miles on it doesn't mean they were good learning experience miles. I can only commute 2500 miles and not actually get 2500 miles in different environments IE: twisties, wet conditions, dry conditions, elevation changes, etc. Don't take this as an argument. This is just a very good discussion. I'm not against the FZ at all. I'd just rather see riders gain the experience and knowledge without having to learn things as they go the hard way.

[username]

http://canadamotoguide.com/2015/08/26/confirmed-yamaha-mt-03-fz-03-in-our-market-is-a-go/
 
A different route if you like nudist bikes but want the 300cc

[crescentwrench]

I debated between these two also before I got the FZ07, so I'll just share my personal experience with the two.
 
I knew I was ready for an upgrade, which either would have been, especially the FZ07 (in size), but also the R3 since it would have been newer tech, slightly more hp, and lighter, etc. than my previous street bike. But not by too much. 
 
After sitting on both, kind of throwing them side to side, something dawned on me: The R3 was so tiny and light, that if I rode it around the streets, I would be overly confident with it. When my over-confidence/cockiness meets a motorcycle, I almost always have an accident.
 
To me, in that way, the R3 meant trouble.
 
The FZ07 on the other hand, is much bigger, and the heaviest bike I've owned (I come from the dual-sport world), and it forces me to sort of... revere its power and capability.
I am very cautious on it. I take it slow. I'm really careful about "listening" to it. I'm very purposeful and precise with my inputs.
 
I think on the R3 I would've just yanked on the throttle and made it my ... toy ... without being as careful, or as perceptive, "knowing" I could handle the weight and speed because I've handled similar-enough bikes before. 
 
The FZ07 commands respect from me, as its rider, because it represents a little more of a challenge, whereas I saw the R3 almost like a kids bike. And, knowing me, I think I could've ended up dead wrong.
 
Kinda of counterintuitive I know, but that's what my thought/feeling process with these two bikes was.

[username]

@crescentwrench I don't think the R3 has more Horsepower does it?

[tawny]

There are plenty of opinions here, so I'll just add a couple of observations about my fz07-
It's by far the worst seat I have ever sat on. I grew up riding horses using a 100+ year old saddle, not a princess butt here! I went to seat concepts and changed it out!
I have only ridden larger, heavier bikes with the exception of a Ninja 250 & 500. Those felt like lawnmowers to me. The electronic throttle feels jerky/blippy, but everyone else says it's great. I got used to it real quick. It's light, extremely well balanced & easy to maneuver. Fun to ride, with plenty of low end gentle throttle, but hp is there when I want it.
The FZ07 has poorly placed pegs imo, you will likely hit your ankles on them a couple of times, I don't notice it now. I feel if I was a larger person, it wouldn't be enough bike for me. I am 135lbs, 5'6".
On the other hand, my wife is similar size, and is intimidated by bikes that I love to ride. She loved the Ninja 500 once she learned to ride & now she wants to ride the FZ. It's all personal preference. Demo days are a great way to make a decision. I rode 3 Harleys one day and learned I'm just not a Harley person, thank goodness I didn't buy one!

[snowdriftless]

@snowdriftless That would be awesome if you could do that.

Here you go:
It includes 2 security screws, the respective star key, and throttle lock.
 

[Beemer]

If you want to ride fast all the time and don't mine hearing the screaming at over 10,000 rpm just to be in the power band then go for the R3. If you're more conservative and want power/torque at low and mid range and don't want to have to wind it up around 10,000 rpm every time just to get any speed the FZ-07 is the bike for you. Personally, I like the instant torque/speed so I can move quick to avoid cagers slamming into me or just having it whenever I need or want it (wheelies, quick launches) for anything. The FZ-07 will also pull like a mutha coming out of corners in the twisties. I think that later you would want more power as well so the FZ-07, IMO.

[crescentwrench]

@crescentwrench I don't think the R3 has more Horsepower does it?

No, I highly doubt it. I was referring to the R3 having more HP than my previous street bike. That's why it would have still been an upgrade for me even though it's the smaller one. 
I agree with @beemer too, regarding having to wind out the R3 that far all the time.
The R3 floats in the 30hp range, until you hit almost 11 grand on the tac, when it peaks at 42hp.
 
There is a published 74hp on the fz07, but I have no rpm info linked to that.
 
Even with the weight difference, the power to weight ratio on the fz07 sounds like a much better time

[SkH]

I debated between these two also before I got the FZ07, so I'll just share my personal experience with the two. 
I knew I was ready for an upgrade, which either would have been, especially the FZ07 (in size), but also the R3 since it would have been newer tech, slightly more hp, and lighter, etc. than my previous street bike. But not by too much. 
 
After sitting on both, kind of throwing them side to side, something dawned on me: The R3 was so tiny and light, that if I rode it around the streets, I would be overly confident with it. When my over-confidence/cockiness meets a motorcycle, I almost always have an accident.
 
To me, in that way, the R3 meant trouble.
 
The FZ07 on the other hand, is much bigger, and the heaviest bike I've owned (I come from the dual-sport world), and it forces me to sort of... revere its power and capability.
I am very cautious on it. I take it slow. I'm really careful about "listening" to it. I'm very purposeful and precise with my inputs.
 
I think on the R3 I would've just yanked on the throttle and made it my ... toy ... without being as careful, or as perceptive, "knowing" I could handle the weight and speed because I've handled similar-enough bikes before. 
 
The FZ07 commands respect from me, as its rider, because it represents a little more of a challenge, whereas I saw the R3 almost like a kids bike. And, knowing me, I think I could've ended up dead wrong.
 
Kinda of counterintuitive I know, but that's what my thought/feeling process with these two bikes was.

 
I'll be honest, I ride the R3 harder and more recklessly than the FZ07.
 
I'm usually a conservative rider. Fastest I've gone is only about 83 on the highway to pass a big rig. But more or less on the highway my average "fast" speed is only about 67mph. When cars get too close to my ass (which gives you a more immediate sensation compared to riding in a car) I usually just keep my speed, and they usually just pass me. The local major road that I ride on has a 45 speed limit which I generally ride at most 50 range.
 
On the R3, I seem to make it a point to redline through the gears all the time, every time. That same road, I always end up at 60 in mere seconds on the R3. I seem to race speedily from a stop light or stop sign. I'm extremely aggressive on the R3. It helps that the R3 feels tighter and stable when you go fast on it compared to the FZ.
 
Luckily the R3 is my wife's bike and I seldomly ride on it. But I do enjoy every mile I put on it, and after over a year on the FZ, I find the R3 a much more fun bike to ride. And I'll admit it inspires a little overconfidence which can be dangerous.
 

[rewplayff]

I want an r3 now. -___- lol. As a second bike.

[fz07fanboy]

@SkH I'm with you on that last comment. My Ninja 300 is awesome. I love riding that thing in the twisties. I keep up with everyone with me on bigger bikes. Drag knees all day on it. I've almost completely ruined a set of pucks on the street just riding Mulholland on my Ninja 300. I've had to take the pucks off and flip them around before I start scrapping leather off my suit. I've replaced them now but keep them as a back up just in case. The 300 is a blast to ride and you don't need a lot of power to have fun. You can still wheelie on a 300 too. Just have to know how. ;-)
 

image hosting over 10mb

[somejello]

@snowdriftless That looks incredibly simple. Thanks for the pic.
 
 
Is it bad that I'm now adding the duke 390 to my list of choices... Man this is a much tougher decision than I originally thought it would be :/

[pattonme]

the Ka-tomb isn't all great. the brakes suck so while the power is nice, they cheaped out on stuff that IMO wasn't the right call.

[snowdriftless]

@snowdriftless That looks incredibly simple. Thanks for the pic. 
Is it bad that I'm now adding the duke 390 to my list of choices... Man this is a much tougher decision than I originally thought it would be :/

Don't loose sight of the goal. The FZ-07 will be a better all around motorcycle.

[somejello]

@snowdriftless That looks incredibly simple. Thanks for the pic. 
Is it bad that I'm now adding the duke 390 to my list of choices... Man this is a much tougher decision than I originally thought it would be :/

Don't loose sight of the goal. The FZ-07 will be a better all around motorcycle.

You're probably right. The KTM looks like a ton of fun, but it seems more like a toy rather than a proper all around motorcycle... Anyway overall I'm probably going to choose the FZ-07 and get the A2 restriction from ebay to go along with it. If there's any news on when the MT-03 might be released I might look into that as well, but for now my heart is pretty set on the FZ-07.